2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[tjfla]

Marlins missed on Mazara but just like Arizona they tried to ravage us. Texas asked for 1 of Sandy,Cabrera,Monte,Connor Scott We countered with Urena/Jerar

Should be another busy day for us tho

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
8h
Teams gave inquired on Marlins starter Caleb Smith

Have also gotten calls on Urena. Teams that called on them are currently the ones who were after Cole and now on MadBum/Ryu so NYY,LAA,LAD,St Louis,Minn. Wouldnt be a surprise to see Urena moved soon for a FV40 prospect and a pick,IFA or another prospect(not great value but Marlins are trying hard to move him)

Also teams looking to sign Rendon and Donaldson/arms are still looking to drop payroll like LAA did yesterday(if we didnt get Villar I would have taken Cozart and that prospect)

Keep hearing conflicting reports on Caleb. Some people say teams they love him and then others say Miami keeps offering him and getting no bites

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If SD goes all in on Price the Wil Myers thing could become reality

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
8h
No progress for #RedSox in trade discussions involving David Price, sources tell The Athletic. #Padres, who badly want to moves Wil Myers, are among clubs Boston has spoken with. Pads extremely active, involved in a large, almost dizzying, number of pursuits.

IF SD goes after a big contract then Myers has to be moved and NOT alot of teams can afford him

[emkayseven]

Can we please avoid using the term rape? Thanks

[fauowls44]

Marlins missed on Mazara but just like Arizona they tried to rape us. Texas asked for 1 of Sandy,Cabrera,Monte,Connor Scott We countered with Urena/Jerar

Should be another busy day for us tho

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
8h
Teams gave inquired on Marlins starter Caleb Smith

Have also gotten calls on Urena. Teams that called on them are currently the ones who were after Cole and now on MadBum/Ryu so NYY,LAA,LAD,St Louis,Minn. Wouldnt be a surprise to see Urena moved soon for a FV40 prospect and a pick,IFA or another prospect(not great value but Marlins are trying hard to move him)

Also teams looking to sign Rendon and Donaldson/arms are still looking to drop payroll like LAA did yesterday(if we didnt get Villar I would have taken Cozart and that prospect)

Keep hearing conflicting reports on Caleb. Some people say teams they love him and then others say Miami keeps offering him and getting no bites

- - - - - - - - - -

If SD goes all in on Price the Wil Myers thing could become reality

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
8h
No progress for #RedSox in trade discussions involving David Price, sources tell The Athletic. #Padres, who badly want to moves Wil Myers, are among clubs Boston has spoken with. Pads extremely active, involved in a large, almost dizzying, number of pursuits.

IF SD goes after a big contract then Myers has to be moved and NOT alot of teams can afford him

That's a crazy ask for Mazara, although they did end up getting the White Sox #6 prospect. But I'm not a huge Mazara fan, so whatever. If the Marlins are willing to part with Jerar, they should be able to acquire the bat they are looking for. Or they can just sign a free agent and keep all their prospects...

[tjfla]

Can we please avoid using the term rape? Thanks

My apologies will take out

[fish16]

If Boston eats a little money I’d be interested in a price and rusney Castillo. Price would be a great veteran innings eater and Castillo is worth another big league shot. Not sure if they are just looking to cut money or would want actual prospects in return but price would be an actual good pitcher on top of saving them some salary

[tjfla]

That's a crazy ask for Mazara, although they did end up getting the White Sox #6 prospect. But I'm not a huge Mazara fan, so whatever. If the Marlins are willing to part with Jerar, they should be able to acquire the bat they are looking for. Or they can just sign a free agent and keep all their prospects...

Ya well they were using Marlins for leverage to get him as well which is why Miami included Urena in last offer.

We are willing to part with Jerar,Devers,2nd Tier SP,Urena and even Caleb the issue we have run into is teams want guys like Sandy,Pablo,Cabrera,Garrett,Connor Scott,Monte and they pretty much refused. Have heard Monte could be had for right guy(assume younger who could play CF?)

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If Boston eats a little money I’d be interested in a price and rusney Castillo. Price would be a great veteran innings eater and Castillo is worth another big league shot. Not sure if they are just looking to cut money or would want actual prospects in return but price would be an actual good pitcher on top of saving them some salary

We aint in on Price. Miami has there SP rotation all ready for 2021. They want a cheap(2/15-20) innings eater but thats about it.

[emkayseven]

Here’s what I don’t get. All the reports saying we are looking for OFers when there are plenty on the open market. Why are we trading for one? I like Mazara but why on earth would we trade a prospect worth anything for him when he has 2 years left and we aren’t competing this year? Why would we NOT be overpaying for Castellanos or Puig or Ozuna instead?

[fauowls44]

Here’s what I don’t get. All the reports saying we are looking for OFers when there are plenty on the open market. Why are we trading for one? I like Masada but why on earth would we trade a prospect worth anything for him when he has 2 years left and we aren’t competing this year? Why would we NOT be overpaying for Castellanos or Puig or Ozuna instead?

I agree...why give up a prospect? And you don't even have to break the bank for a Castellanos (although I would be fine with it). You can likely get Dickerson or Puig on a 2 year deal.

[fish16]

Here’s what I don’t get. All the reports saying we are looking for OFers when there are plenty on the open market. Why are we trading for one? I like Mazara but why on earth would we trade a prospect worth anything for him when he has 2 years left and we aren’t competing this year? Why would we NOT be overpaying for Castellanos or Puig or Ozuna instead?

That’s been my question as well. A star like Bryant or betts is obviously a different story but other than that there are plenty of outfielders available. Dickerson is the clear guy to add to me. Give him 2 years 12 million and move on to a starter and a few relievers

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Here’s what I don’t get. All the reports saying we are looking for OFers when there are plenty on the open market. Why are we trading for one? I like Mazara but why on earth would we trade a prospect worth anything for him when he has 2 years left and we aren’t competing this year? Why would we NOT be overpaying for Castellanos or Puig or Ozuna instead?

That’s been my question as well. A star like Bryant or betts is obviously a different story but other than that there are plenty of outfielders available. Dickerson is the clear guy to add to me. Give him 2 years 12 million and move on to a starter and a few relievers

[lou]

Cole is a superstar pitcher, castellanos is an above average hitter who sucks at fielding. It’s not all that complicated to build a team. You don’t just throw money at above average players for star money because you happen to have cleared the books. The books are clean because we waited out/dealt contracts like the one you’re suggesting we give

If it's not complicated everyone would be winning and you wouldn't be typing stupid things. But ignoring that, no one is advocating Castellanos, or Ozuna, is to receive star money. NO ONE. $17 million a year isn't star money. It's not close. Please stop embarrassing yourself and take a look around baseball as to what Strausburg and Cole are receiving. Rendon is going to blow that away too. Your last sentence is 100% false too. Signing a 28 year old hitter entering their prime, who has strong floor value with his hit tool, is not the same as giving a 30 year old pitcher a massively deferred money deal (from a shitty owner looking to sell the franchise and not spend money) or giving a 32 year old infielder a $40 million extension (Prado). What would be dumb is, if they traded assets for someone like David Peralta (32) and then signed him for $60 million. Castellanos isn't remotely comparable. Also note, you can harp on his defense, but it's about overall production and 3 WAR is 3 WAR (and his defense improved last year, his second as an outfielder).

The only one suggesting we try to dink out 81 wins is the guy suggesting we sell out the now clear salary sheet for the next few years for the first available above average hitter. You continue to idiotically suggest paying huge Money over long years for above average hitters simply because this is the first offeseason in which we’ve cleared the books.
It’s idiotic. Wait for the big name and continue to build from within rather than continuing to add Prado/Chen/Ziegler type contracts on a team that is destined to be a small market team for mediocre/ above average players. It shows absolutely 0 vision and reality for how a consistent contender will inevitably be built down here

Nope. I'm looking to build for 2022 - where free agency is bad in 2021 where they need to make a longterm move or two this offseason and completely punt on 2021 absent a 1 year flyer deal on an as needed basis. They need to make a big move in 2020, and then another big one in 2022. A lot of that is due to being able to retain a core player for 22/23 and have their contract EXPIRE so you can give out the same deal again to a younger player or start buying out other's arbitration years. If your idea is, let's wait 2 years for the kids to develop and then sign 3 guys, that's how you clog the books by having 3 big contracts starting on the same timeline with arbitration raises coming in at also the same time. They need to STAGGER their free agent deals so they maintain a positive salary structure moving forward. This is how you use present payroll to help 2022.

One $15+ million contract isn't selling out a salary sheet that expires in 4 years. Give me a break. $15+ million isn't huge money in modern baseball for a guy in his prime, that is proven. This move doesn't prevent a big name either (which they will likely have to trade for anyways as they extremely likely aren't giving out a $350 million contract). Castellanos and Ozuna are much younger than those guys and fill a longterm need of getting a middle of the order right handed hitter. You're the only one with 0 vision as this team is a laughing stock and they have to make moves to get better (1) now, (2) longterm, (3) to increase fan confidence, (4) with a pending TV deal to negotiate, (5) stadium naming rights, etc.

If they do nothing more - it's because they are paying off DEBT. I think this is unlikely given the Villar move, but we'll see.

If 1 3-4 year deal at $15-$20 million range per cripples this organization, then we have no business being in this league. You use your assets to improve your team. Our biggest asset right now is ability to spend. (well it should be, who really fucking knows how much this FO will be willing to spend, it's uncharted waters) fish16 is still in Jeff Loria mindset where the owner doesn't spend anything until he does then it's a disaster.

I'm all for waiting for the big name and going all in on a superstar. Rendon and Cole are big names and I don't see us in on those guys, to me those guys would be perfect fits, yeah they are going to make stupid money, but so is the next round of superstar players to hit the FA market in coming years. If they aren't making a play for Cole and Rendon this year there's no reason to think they'll go all in on a superstar in Free Agency in coming years.

You start spending money now, get people's attention around the league, you don't go overboard and inhibit your ability to spend in coming years, but you bring in someone who will help you not only next year, but in 21-23 when the real turnaround should happen, and a 27-28 year old bat on a 4-year contract fits that bill perfectly.

Yes to everything. Payroll would also be under $75 million 2020, 2021, and 2022. They can afford 2 Gerrit Cole's on a combined 26 man roster.

To note though, and I know you agree with this, they can also use payroll as an asset in eating dead money for prospects (Wil Myers discussion, etc.; What Giants did with Cozart which is fantastic). If it's Castellanos/Ozuna for 4? Great. If it's eating Wil Myers and getting a good prospect package? Great.

Do something to help BUILD a culture now and support 2022+.

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Here’s what I don’t get. All the reports saying we are looking for OFers when there are plenty on the open market. Why are we trading for one? I like Mazara but why on earth would we trade a prospect worth anything for him when he has 2 years left and we aren’t competing this year? Why would we NOT be overpaying for Castellanos or Puig or Ozuna instead?

Yep

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If Boston eats a little money I’d be interested in a price and rusney Castillo. Price would be a great veteran innings eater and Castillo is worth another big league shot. Not sure if they are just looking to cut money or would want actual prospects in return but price would be an actual good pitcher on top of saving them some salary

So 28 year old hitters for something like 4/$68 - NO

34 year old pitchers making 3/$66 - ..... YES?

Castellanos has out WAR'd Price last 2 years.

What a disaster.

[tjfla]

Can't answer. I know they are in on lots of guys in trades/FA.

The Castellanos thing is the 6 years Boras is demanding. As for Ozuna its the QO

I have heard that they are trying to "trade" because of the 40 man crunch next year. NOT saying they will protect all of these guys BUT here are the names who have to be on the 40 man next winter

Devers/Dunand/James Nelson//Mahan/Lazaro Alonso/Brian Miller/Jerar/Thomas Jones/Garrett/Rogers/Soriano/Roberson/Palacios/Stevens/Aiello/Hock/Guenther

Again NOT all will be on the 40 man BUT I count 8-10 very very likely(plus guys who could be on it next year like Stewart/FA/new prospects) which means if they can trade 2 or 3 for 1 ML guy they should take a look

[lou]

Even Boston eating money makes this a disaster, as Castillo averages that out*

[tjfla]

Even Boston eating money makes this a disaster, as Castillo averages that out*

Ya no point in 3/66 when have 6 SP next year already and can add a Roark/Teheran for 8 million to eat innings

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If and when Boras drops the years on Castellanos then Miami will be back in(IF they havent gotten a guy already) but at 6 years HECK NO

[lou]

Ya no point in 3/66 when have 6 SP next year already and can add a Roark/Teheran for 8 million to eat innings

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If and when Boras drops the years on Castellanos then Miami will be back in(IF they havent gotten a guy already) but at 6 years HECK NO

We all agree 5-6 years for Castellanos is dumb, or an average value over say $19 on a 4 year deal.

But he's not going to get that.

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And if he does, god bless you Nick. You killed it.

[tjfla]

We all agree 5-6 years for Castellanos is dumb, or an average value over say $19 on a 4 year deal.

But he's not going to get that.

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And if he does, god bless you Nick. You killed it.

Exactly!! Boras and Nick were happy with 4/70(still wanted 6/100+) until Moose got 4/64 but now not so much