2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

luzardo for o'neill cruz would be very tempting for me. IDK how they value him because he was out pretty much all of last year after being one of the top prospects in baseball and a complete athletic freak, but that would be about as good as you could do for luzardo, and you set back the clock on the window for contention with luzardo for him. I doubt cabrera gets cruz, but luzardo i think could.

[fish16]

Actually maybe Davis or Endy makes sense here. The Marlins just signed Casali so they have a whatever backup all of a sudden, and could ship Fortes (a lot of control) out as part of a trade so Pittsburgh is really covered this year and sets up Davis/Endy + Fortes next year. Maybe Delay would come back too since they signed Grandal and he becomes the Marlins backup this year.

I think I am setting myself up for disappointment here, but absent a huge longterm upgrade in the field and that can only come from Cruz (unlikely, would be selling low), Hayes (big contract), Davis (massive draft pedigree), or Endy (hurt) from their personnel, or getting Keller (great # 2 SP) for right now purposes and Pittsburgh is playing the long game, I don't see how they can justify moving Cabrera.

Guess we'll see. But I'd be on board quickly for something like this:

-Davis/Delay/literally whoever, sure Bae and that other FV35+ dude. Davis can split C/1B/LF for this season and get a full year of build up to be primary catcher in 2025. Maybe 50+ times behind the plate this year and Bethancourt/Delay each have their own personal SP I guess. Bae has an option and he can fight Edwards for a spot.

-Cabrera/Fortes/parts we don't care about. Endy/Fortes is a really great longterm C combo IMO, and Cabrera helps them now


That makes sense to me to respect both Cabrera (could be an ace, but is he really a SP or a bulk/RP) and Davis (could be a mashing C, but is he really a C and going to end up as a DH even if he hits) upside. Maybe a solid third player would have to be in there for the Marlins, but absent getting Cruz/Hayes/Davis/Endy/Keller, I'd keep Cabrera more than likely which is the point here. I really hope they don't send him out for junk as I'd rather him explode here and bet the upside then bet for that happening and trade for a quarter.

Ke'brayan hayes does not have a big contract. He is signed long term, but not at a huge cost. it's 7 million per year through 2029.

Also Endy Rodriguez i believe is out for this season and Davis was awful last year in limited time with a -1.0 WAR and awful on both sides of the ball, though he was playing RF for some reason.

I just dont see how it works without Hayes, Cruz, or Johnson +

[lou]

Ke'brayan hayes does not have a big contract. He is signed long term, but not at a huge cost. it's 7 million per year through 2029.

Also Endy Rodriguez i believe is out for this season and Davis was awful last year in limited time with a -1.0 WAR and awful on both sides of the ball, though he was playing RF for some reason.

I just dont see how it works without Hayes, Cruz, or Johnson +

It's a big contract for Pittsburgh to move for a very good player. He's ascending. Johnson is too far away for me, but if this is a full tear down (Luzardo, Arraez, Scott, Berti, Bell, etc.), I agree with you. He'll be great in 2026/2027.

Endy is out the season but do they care about this season??? And it was Davis' first call up and he is projected to be (slightly) better than Cabrera this year. But there are legitimate questions where he ends up so why not trade risks as Cabrera has the same questions? Davis is their Cabrera TBH.

I think you can readily live with getting one of the catchers here. If as I threw out there Fortes is in the deal too, they can have Fortes/Grandal this year (and maybe they keep Delay who cares), and Endy/Fortes next year, and Marlins have Bethancourt, Davis, Casali, maybe Delay, and Banfield which is quite an organizational position change over.. Everyone has catchers here, and Pittsburgh gets a rotation piece for right now. Much like the Marlins, they will have to move that minor league pitching for a bat eventually too but they have a nice catcher/cruz/hates/reynolds/suwinski base here to build off of, etc., so if they think Cabrera helps them this year, good for them.

I'd do it for a catcher if the price is right. That's all I'm saying here. I like Davis and Endy longterm for sure.

[lou]

luzardo for o'neill cruz would be very tempting for me. IDK how they value him because he was out pretty much all of last year after being one of the top prospects in baseball and a complete athletic freak, but that would be about as good as you could do for luzardo, and you set back the clock on the window for contention with luzardo for him. I doubt cabrera gets cruz, but luzardo i think could.

Luzardo would.

And a big old YES to this if we wanna get nuts and Pittsburgh aims to sign Luzardo longterm and targets Skenes, Luzardo (extension), Keller (extension), Cabrera, and Solometo rotation. I'm assuming Cruz and Davis/Endy come back here for 2 Miami prominent SP. Pittsburgh is totally set in the rotation and pen, and has excess pitching + money to spend on their bats. Seems like a lot of player movement though but if Pitt thinks they can get the bats elsewhere, that rotation is banging.

I'll wait till 2025 for Sandy/Eury/Garrett/Rogers/Max and a base position player lineup of Pirates C/Burger/Arraez/Cruz/Berti/Gordon/Jazz/Sanchez/DLC. That would be awesome. They'd hit!

[Todd]

Groshans claimed by Yankees. Ironically they DFA'd Matt Krook(former Marlins draftee who didn't sign due to a vague injury found during a medical) to make room for him.

[lou]

Groshans claimed by Yankees. Ironically they DFA'd Matt Krook(former Marlins draftee who didn't sign due to a vague injury found during a medical) to make room for him.

Very fun observation.

I am a little annoyed two good organizations are taking Groshans and Burdick though. Probably nothing comes of it, but it does validate the orgs belief there is potential there to carry them on the 40man. I know we were confused why Groshans kept his spot, but apparently there is real growth projection still if the Yankees are willing to take him for a spin this year.

[fish16]

annual sixto spring training update- he says he is 90-95%. I believe he said he was 80-85% last spring. So hopefully by this time next year he might possibly be 100% healthy. just get rid of the guy already.

[sports24/7]

In Barry Jackson and Mish’s latest for the Herald, it talks a little bit about the potential Orioles deal for Luzardo that didn’t happen, but even more interestingly says that the Marlins and Royals briefly discussed a deal last year centered around Eury for Bobby Witt Jr. It says no official offer was ever made, but it was discussed. That’s wild. I don’t know that I can ever remember a trade like that in baseball where arguably the best future hitting star was traded for the best young pitching star. I don’t know how I would have felt about that.

[fish16]

In Barry Jackson and Mish’s latest for the Herald, it talks a little bit about the potential Orioles deal for Luzardo that didn’t happen, but even more interestingly says that the Marlins and Royals briefly discussed a deal last year centered around Eury for Bobby Witt Jr. It says no official offer was ever made, but it was discussed. That’s wild. I don’t know that I can ever remember a trade like that in baseball where arguably the best future hitting star was traded for the best young pitching star. I don’t know how I would have felt about that.

you do that trade 100 out of 100 times.

[fish16]

just saw a video for the first time of sixto actually throwing with all his effort instead of what we've seen for the last 3 years where he looks like if he throws too hard his shoulder is going to pay off. First time ive seen him in several years throw with some actual violence behind the pitch. No idea what the speed is though but that's a positive at least. he would have to make the team out of spring since he's out of options. Would probably be the least likely comeback in quite a long time if he ever pitches again at the big league level after missing 3 full seasons.

[Namaste]

just saw a video for the first time of sixto actually throwing with all his effort. First time ive seen him in several years throw with some actual violence behind the pitch. No idea what the speed is though but that's a positive at least.

It’s almost as if the Marlins had more inside info about Sixto and his chances of returning to the big league level than you did.

In all seriousness, though, it would be a comeback for the ages.

[fish16]

It’s almost as if the Marlins had more inside info about Sixto and his chances of returning to the big league level than you did.

In all seriousness, though, it would be a comeback for the ages.

it was a single pitch. every other pitch was a BP fastball. They are going to DFA him before the year.

[sports24/7]

Sounds like Max Meyer will be full go for spring training.

[fish16]

Sounds like Max Meyer will be full go for spring training.

i think they will be careful with him, but i would put him in the rotation right away. he's not just coming back from TJ. He's been healthy for what, 5 months now? He's the 3rd overall pick and a guy who was projected to be a top of the rotation type guy, let him start early and then move him to the pen late in the year.

[Namaste]

We have one guy, Dax Fulton (84), on the ZiPS Top 100 prospects list. Nice work, Kim Ng and company!