2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[lou]

We are well into games in ST with opening day less than a month away.

The Yankees probably want to move Soto to 1B as quickly as possible. The rest of their OF, 1B, and DH is log jammed. Other option would be to try and just get Rizzo and leave Bell at DH. Rizzos option for 2025 isn't that big.

I think Boras tactis are on the way out.

1. Arraez, 2B
2. Anderson, SS
3. Rizzo, 1B
4. Chapman, 3B
5. Chisholm, CF
6. Burger, LF
7. Bell, DH
8. Sanchez, RF
9. Fortes

Was thinking about this and I'm really not sure the Yankees would move Rizzo, but they would probably LOVE LOVE LOVE Berti. They got nothing for their bench (Cabrera) if they want to play Peraza everyday in AAA (which they should). Trent Grisham is expendable to them IMO for someone like Berti (Verdugo-Judge-Soto / Stanton and Cabrera can pop out there / Dominguez and Peireira coming quickly). Both have 2 years of control, Trent is a little more expensive, and Berti is better, but Trent is younger with theoretical upside. The Marlins get a 2nd prospect here to do the swap for sure so that may make it worth it to maybe get a future reliever or big lottery ticket. Trent is a perfect defensive CF who hits left handers (big split for him for his career, .750 OPS hitter versus left handers and .791 last year and much weaker versus RHP), as well as obvious upside if he clicks against RHP again. It's a good swap IMO for some needs both ways.

Then they could sign Elvis Andrus for nothing to be the MI backup (I know, but they just need a veteran here if Berti is moved for the first half of the year and he's fine to let Amaya play everyday in AAA. This is a $1m + incentives kind of deal so nothing type of deal), Mondesi to a MILB deal and show him there is an easy path here if he clicks as only Andrus, Brujan, and DLC are standing in his way of playing time this summer, and roll this out:

C Fortes, Bethancourt
1B Bell
2B Arraez
SS Anderson, Andrus
3B Burger, Brujan
LF Gordon, DLC (Garcia DFA)
CF Jazz, Grisham
RF Sanchez

The AAA group would be this, which is I think this pretty good just adding Mondesi here.

C Casali/Pareda
1B/DH Johnston/Mancini
2B Edwards/Bride
SS/3B Mondesi/Amaya/Gray/Bride
OF Edwards/Myers


That's an interesting one to me. I'd be pretty open to this and then optimistically signing Lorenzen on top to really level out the team (also ignoring just sign Michael Taylor for that Grisham spot here and keep Berti/Andrus which is an even better idea). Not spectacular, but would be a high floor bunch and banking on Arraez/Jazz/SP/lefty relievers dominating with 1 run luck.

[lou]

Shoulder soreness in March scares me.

Sure, but plenty of time. Even if he misses all of April, he probably still projects for 27 starts (he had 30 last year). Which is basically a full season. I'm not worried until some major news comes here. That's all. One of the main 6 SP missing April isn't that big of a deal ultimately. Someone else gets hurt and we move to full panic quickly

[Nick]

Sure, but plenty of time. Even if he misses all of April, he probably still projects for 27 starts (he had 30 last year). Which is basically a full season. I'm not worried until some major news comes here. That's all. One of the main 6 SP missing April isn't that big of a deal ultimately. Someone else gets hurt and we move to full panic quickly

I think both takes are right, shoulder soreness could lead to a longer term thing, but yeah if Garrett misses April but is 100% the rest of the year that may actually be beneficial come August and September when the other pitchers are dropping like flies.

[Nick]

I feel like every spring people on this board want to trade Berti and then every year it becomes vitally important that we have him. Berti is the perfect 10th guy to have on the bench for any team, including ours, let's keep him.

[lou]

I think both takes are right, shoulder soreness could lead to a longer term thing, but yeah if Garrett misses April but is 100% the rest of the year that may actually be beneficial come August and September when the other pitchers are dropping like flies.

It's why despite Mel saying he doesn't want a 6 man rotation, they need a 6 man rotation. Builds in an extra rest day the whole year for everyone to get that bridge to September. And that's even if they do surprise us with a Lorenzen type signing. Weathers + Puk/Soriano can do it.

They've built an army of optionable bulk relievers (Faucher, McCaughan, Hoeing, Tyler, Guitterez, Chiniros, and have guys like Smeltzer and Monteverde off the 40 man too). And then Max is on top of this when he's ready, and are also keeping Puk, Soriano, and Weathers stretched out. I think you're churning that first group every 10-15 days for a fresh arm the whole season and just throwing waves of innings at people. Those guys get 1 time through the lineup max, do that 2-3 times, and get optioned down for next man up who is ready tomorrow which is the key here. It's a way to artificially create innings from 1 roster spot which they'll need to do. And frankly, Rogers, and Weathers have options on top of that and if they need a "start" skipped a few times during the year if they do keep a 5 man rotation and they are both in it at times, they can send them down for 10 days. Not in an effort of roster manipulation (both are set on their service time paths), but just to call up a longman reliever for a week when they get a breather.

I think a lot of pitcher moves are coming basically to keep guys fresh. 125+ innings have to come from somewhere with the current roster construction absent a Lorenzen kind of thing, so it quickly gets to likely three/four guys being heavily churned every 10-15 days. I'll say Faucher, Hoeing, McCaughan, and Chiniros are the leads for this and looking at 30+ innings each for them over the season. Effectively this:

SP Luzardo, Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, Rogers
Bulk Puk, Weathers, Soriano
RP Scott, Nardi, Chargois, Brazoban
13th man optionpalooza - Faucher/Hoeung/McCaughan/Chiniros

With ideally at some point, Max replacing Soriano, and Bender replacing Brazoban, and then both of those guys join optionpalooza every 10 days + adds for double headers + maybe someone else needs a breather. A lot of moves to deflect innings here, and hopefully they can be smart about this and have these fringe arms I'm talking about her eavailable for a lot of garbage time up/down 4 runs.

We'll see.

[Nick]

Has anybody actually heard anything about Rogers. Is he pitching? Still dealing with issues? What's up?

[lou]

I feel like every spring people on this board want to trade Berti and then every year it becomes vitally important that we have him. Berti is the perfect 10th guy to have on the bench for any team, including ours, let's keep him.

I think it's a cost/benefit analysis. I'd bet Edwards, Brujan, and Amaya are good enough in the infield as backups over any OF in the organization hitting left handers with any authority.

DLC (.sub .700 OPS, terrible defense) - Jazz (sub. 600 OPS, but great defense) - Garcia (just terrible) is the predominant OF against left hander right now as Sanchez and Gordon are even more unplayable, and I'd argue that may be the worst overall positional unit against an arm type in baseball. Even getting one sold dude over Garcia will be helpful here and could pay more dividends that Berti (who would bring back a good asset if moved).

It's a big need. They should just sign Michael Taylor or something like that and end the Garcia debacle. A good team would have a Berti, Taylor, DLC/Gordon, and Brujan bench. That's a lot of veteran consistency with the first two, and upside potential with the later two. That's a good set up day 1.

[fish16]

I feel like every spring people on this board want to trade Berti and then every year it becomes vitally important that we have him. Berti is the perfect 10th guy to have on the bench for any team, including ours, let's keep him.

he's the kind of guy who is valuable enough that you dont give him up for nothing, but im at the point where i dont want to see him take ab's from edwards and other young guys like Gordon, Johnston, Burger, etc so if he can get you a controlled bullpen arm, id do it quickly.

[rmc523]

her trades were always pretty solid. Whether it was the minor rays trades that we seeemed to do every year that got us chargois and edwards, or the major ones. her issue, and the issue of this entire ownership tenure, has been drafting and developing hitters. if they either developed hitters better or made better drafting decisions, this full tear down would have been majorly successful.

Her drafting and poor free agent signings were the death of her tenure here.

But ya, the deadline last year was huge.

Trades didn’t seem to be the problem. It was drafting, FA signings, in-season roster management and lack of urgency that did her in.

[lou]

he's the kind of guy who is valuable enough that you dont give him up for nothing, but im at the point where i dont want to see him take ab's from edwards and other young guys like Gordon, Johnston, Burger, etc so if he can get you a controlled bullpen arm, id do it quickly.

I generally agree, with the footnote they'd need another SS option. Amaya can't be the sole plan B. I think adding Andrus and Mondesi (MILB) on very cheap deals would be good enough and just cross our fingers Tim is a 120+ game starter. I would bet one of Andrus, Amaya, Mondesi, and I guess Brujan or Edwards, is an adequate backup SS if something beneficial is received for Berti.

[lou]

I think Boras tactis are on the way out.

4. Chapman, 3B

3/$54 (opt outs after years 1 and 2). He was projected for well over double that. Wow. It's effectively a 1/$20m year deal though. Great move by the Giants.

[Todd]

The fact that the Marlins weren't in on that is disgusting

[fish16]

The fact that the Marlins weren't in on that is disgusting

Not sure when you’re going to realize that none of the top free agents want to play here. You wouldn’t either if you were a top free agent

[Namaste]

Not sure when you’re going to realize that none of the top free agents want to play here. You wouldn’t either if you were a top free agent

a top free agent recently came right out and said he didn’t want to play in San Francisco (I believe it was JD Martinez).

[fish16]

a top free agent recently came right out and said he didn’t want to play in San Francisco (I believe it was JD Martinez).

And Justin turner took less money to play elsewhere last year and we haven’t signed a major free agent since 2012? Guys don’t want to play here when they have other options. It’s why every guy we sign is a bounce back buy low guy. And we shouldn’t be building our team that way anyways