2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[lou]

he's not the sexiest name but i wouldnt be terribly upset if we take a flier on joey bart's pedigree at C. Roll with a top 3 of Bart, Bethancourt, and Fortes. Good mix of different skill sets there. Bart might just stink but there could be a change of scenery thing with him getting away from SF where he was drafted to be the replacement for Posey in a terrible hitter's park. He doesnt walk nearly enough but maybe there is something there. Never graded negatively defensively according to fangraphs so maybe he can be a late bloomer and a nice piece for a few years.

We're not getting garver, so i dont see who else is going to be a ton better in free agency. He was a good minor league hitter before coming to the majors so id be fine taking a chance on a reclamation project if we combine it with Luzardo for Cowser/Mayo, Westburg, and Ortiz. That would be a tremendous offseason to me.

Sure. I like Bart (or Knizner) as the AAA guy and hope for the best.


I've been thinking about that Orioles trade. Big picture, they probably want this as their longterm IF:

Aldy, Basallo(C/1B/DH)
Mayo
Westburg/Ortiz, Norby
Holliday
Gunnar

It's all in house, controlled, and they can then roster 5+ OF to really maximize platoon splits and maybe a defender. Considering Mayo can play 3B, they have redundancy plans all over assuming Basallo can handle 1B. If they are going to trade anyone else here, it's probably Mayo as they can just move Basallo to 1B and then sign bench defenders for the IF if someone gets hurt.


Basically long story short - if they do an epic Luzardo trade, if I were them I'd only include one of Westburg/Ortiz as the other is likely their longterm 2B. Norby isn't a great defender they say, so he's probably just a roaming high usage bench stick at 2B/LF/DH. Perfect for their bench as an offensive Berti kind of guy. Mayo might be expendable but I doubt it.

I think the trade would look like this for them, ignoring Marlins desires:

Cowser/Kjerstad, Westburg/Ortiz, Mountcastle, + throw ins


It's probably throwing in Okert too, and maybe the package gets a little better if Berti gets in there. Mountcastle is expendable for them with Mayo coming and he lowers their payroll which they should do to sign for other spots. Marlins could then eat Bell some money and flip him and I think that's an upgrade easily once funds are reapportioned to arms.


It's probably Cowser and Ortiz "prospect" wise, and then they build the OF around Kjerstad, resigning Mullins or Hays, playing Norby out there a little, cycling their other guys like Beavers/Fabian/etc., and maybe one year cheaper vet FA unless they splurge on a stud. Like Bellinger who would really open them up to using their OF to trade.



Just saying, it makes sense for the Marlins to want a triple IF package of Mayo, Westburg, and Ortiz and pay up to make that happen, but it's tough to make that work on paper for Baltimore even with Holliday and Gunnar manning half the field. I think the Marlins would want Ortiz as he'll have more defensive versatility than Westburg who is likely going to be land locked at 2B, so the question may be is Cowser or Kjerstad going to be that stud LF.

[sports24/7]

The Garver deal was pretty reasonable in the end. The fact that Miami couldn’t match that tells me they’re probably not going to spend at all.

[fish16]

The Garver deal was pretty reasonable in the end. The fact that Miami couldn’t match that tells me they’re probably not going to spend at all.

yup. also, combine that with the fact that no one wants to sign here. if you were an mlb player and not a marlins fan, what is the draw to signing with the marlins as opposed to any other team? Hot as shit during the season and you get to play in front of 10k fans a night for a cheap owner? no thank you. The only way this team builds a long term contender is trades and extensions.

[Nick]

yup. also, combine that with the fact that no one wants to sign here. if you were an mlb player and not a marlins fan, what is the draw to signing with the marlins as opposed to any other team? Hot as shit during the season and you get to play in front of 10k fans a night for a cheap owner? no thank you. The only way this team builds a long term contender is trades and extensions.

We play in an air-conditioned stadium. Living in Miami would be preferable to 90% of the cities in the MLB. The only reason this isn't a desirable location is because our owners are cheap as shit and not trustworthy. (at least under Loria, signing guys to big deals then immediately trading them)

[fauowls44]

Not saying you’re wrong about the cheap ownership, but I think maybe we are reading a bit much into not signing Garver. Were they even interested in him? He isn’t good defensively and hasn’t played 90 games or had over 300 at bats in a season since 2019. If you have limited money to spend, I’m not sure I would’ve invested $12 million a year in him either. That said, this team absolutely needs to spend money to improve the offense.

[fish16]

We play in an air-conditioned stadium. Living in Miami would be preferable to 90% of the cities in the MLB. The only reason this isn't a desirable location is because our owners are cheap as shit and not trustworthy. (at least under Loria, signing guys to big deals then immediately trading them)

i understand we play in an air conditioned stadium, i meant overall miami fucking sucks during the summer. absurd heat and humidity and constant rain. You are right though, this is not a desirable location because of the franchise and its not fun to play every night in front of 10k when you can make the same money in an also nice city and play in front of 20-30k per night. that was my bigger point. This is not an appealing mlb team to play for.

[fauowls44]

i understand we play in an air conditioned stadium, i meant overall miami fucking sucks during the summer. absurd heat and humidity and constant rain. You are right though, this is not a desirable location because of the franchise and its not fun to play every night in front of 10k when you can make the same money in an also nice city and play in front of 20-30k per night. that was my bigger point. This is not an appealing mlb team to play for.

We are really going to blame the weather? It’s hot everywhere during the summer. There are plenty of nice places to live in South Florida. Tons of players would love to play here if the ownership would pay. It’s reputation and lack of investment in the MLB roster that’s the problem. Until Sherman (or someone else) decides to run the franchise like a real MLB team, they’ll struggle to attract free agents.

[lou]

Not saying you’re wrong about the cheap ownership, but I think maybe we are reading a bit much into not signing Garver. Were they even interested in him? He isn’t good defensively and hasn’t played 90 games or had over 300 at bats in a season since 2019. If you have limited money to spend, I’m not sure I would’ve invested $12 million a year in him either. That said, this team absolutely needs to spend money to improve the offense.

I agree, he is not a great fit when you already have 2 defensive slugs (Bell, DLC) and extremely likely below average 2B and 3B starters who should be your 1B and DH starters. They need defenders. IKF is the right idea, but the wrong player. And that goes to them being cheap to a fault.

[lou]

We play in an air-conditioned stadium. Living in Miami would be preferable to 90% of the cities in the MLB. The only reason this isn't a desirable location is because our owners are cheap as shit and not trustworthy. (at least under Loria, signing guys to big deals then immediately trading them)

Yep. It is solely ownership. If they spent like the Twins/Mariners things would be much different of course.

[rmc523]

yup. also, combine that with the fact that no one wants to sign here. if you were an mlb player and not a marlins fan, what is the draw to signing with the marlins as opposed to any other team? Hot as shit during the season and you get to play in front of 10k fans a night for a cheap owner? no thank you. The only way this team builds a long term contender is trades and extensions.

yeah I don’t understand this take regarding the weather at all.

the weather hasn’t stopped Messi or an increasing variety of soccer stars from signing here, and they play outdoors.

plenty of sports stars want to play and live in Miami. And the roof eliminated the weather issue for playing. Weather conditions beyond that could be said for most cities in summer.

the problem is more the lack of on field success and untrustworthy owners, as has been mentioned.

We finally had some success last year, but troublingly, we’ve not done anything thus far to build upon that….I get its a new guy in charge and he has to evaluate and re-mold the team to his preferences, but if we go the full offseason and just count on full seasons of the trade guys and younger pitchers, minus Soler and Sandy, then next season won’t be as fun…..we’ll probably tread water around .500.

we need to start consistently winning, and Bruce needs to be willing to open up the purse strings more.

[fauowls44]

I agree, he is not a great fit when you already have 2 defensive slugs (Bell, DLC) and extremely likely below average 2B and 3B starters who should be your 1B and DH starters. They need defenders. IKF is the right idea, but the wrong player. And that goes to them being cheap to a fault.

I didn’t get the interest in IKF. He’s not a starting SS and not really even an upgrade over Berti. Glad they didn’t match the 2/$15 million offer he took from Toronto.

[lou]

yeah I don’t understand this take regarding the weather at all.

the weather hasn’t stopped Messi or an increasing variety of soccer stars from signing here, and they play outdoors.

plenty of sports stars want to play and live in Miami. And the roof eliminated the weather issue for playing. Weather conditions beyond that could be said for most cities in summer.

the problem is more the lack of on field success and untrustworthy owners, as has been mentioned.

We finally had some success last year, but troublingly, we’ve not done anything thus far to build upon that….I get its a new guy in charge and he has to evaluate and re-mold the team to his preferences, but if we go the full offseason and just count on full seasons of the trade guys and younger pitchers, minus Soler and Sandy, then next season won’t be as fun…..we’ll probably tread water around .500.

we need to start consistently winning, and Bruce needs to be willing to open up the purse strings more.

100%

[lou]

I didn’t get the interest in IKF. He’s not a starting SS and not really even an upgrade over Berti. Glad they didn’t match the 2/$15 million offer he took from Toronto.

I was imagining it would be signing him for 1/$6-8m and then trading out Berti who is better and cheaper and would be a great throw-in for many contenders (like Baltimore with all the kids as Holliday and Westburg should be great, but growing pains).

Basically the Luzardo trade we have speculated on, but chucking in Berti (and Mack or Banfield) and getting Kjerstad, Ortiz, and Basallo or Rushing, Busch, and Pages back sort of thing.

[rmc523]

FWIW mods/admin - the web version still is illegible on Edge, chrome and Firefox .
it only seems to be working on safari in the phone.

[Namaste]

FWIW mods/admin - the web version still is illegible on Edge, chrome and Firefox .
it only seems to be working on safari in the phone.

emkayseven