2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[lou]

And that was Denbo and mike hill. I had high hopes for ng but two years in I don’t know how anyone can have any confidence in her any more. Soler I’m fine with but Garcia was blatantly stupid the second it was announced and if she had any confidence that this bullpen was enough she’s a moron. There’s 0 vision and worse off there’s no creativity to create a sum greater than the whole of its parts. I’m a diehard fan of this team and this is my last offseason. If they go into next season with minor moves and feed us the same bullshit they did going into this year, im finding a new team or done with the sport entirely

The later part is correct - what’s opening day look like and will they right the wrongs of this past offseason.

this story isn’t written today

the frustration I have is someone from Cooper Berti Rojas Wendle okert and Floro should have probably gotten moved. They can’t keep all those guys and they are all pretty good to find a deal somewhere. I imagine anyways. But everyone is controlled so who knows.

[lou]

This sounds a lot like what we were saying at the end of last year, no?

fool me once shame on you?

I can’t do it again if it’s a lackluster offseason. I’m just saying, I’m not mad today.

pablo is awesome. It’s the moon or fuck off

[lou]

Braxton Garrett kind of looks like eh again lately.

Which is why you pencil him into the bullpen as the 6th SP

sandy Pablo luzardo Cabrera rogers
____, Floro (probably?), Bender, Poteet
scott, bleier, okert, garrett

AAA - Eury, Eder, Sixto, Neidert, Nardi, others

This is good

I don’t know how to fix the offense, but this is really deep with another solid reliever

[fish16]

Which is why you pencil him into the bullpen as the 6th SP

sandy Pablo luzardo Cabrera rogers
____, Floro (probably?), Bender, Poteet
scott, bleier, okert, garrett

AAA - Eury, Eder, Sixto, Neidert, Nardi, others

This is good

I don’t know how to fix the offense, but this is really deep with another solid reliever

It’s not good though, talented doesn’t equal good. Rogers has been horrible all year, luzardo is going to end up a multi inning Andrew Miller clone because he doesn’t have the stamina to effectively go deep into games, Cabrera hasn’t proven he can stay healthy, Eder hasn’t thrown a pitch post tommy John, sixto hasn’t pitched in two years, and eury hasn’t thrown a major league pitch. They have spent two years wasting time with a clear and obvious surplus of talented pitching and a clear and obvious dearth of talented major league level hitters.

they have blown an enormous two year window to trade 2 of these guys for pitching or Pablo for an immediate upgrade at at least 2 positions.

[fish16]

fool me once shame on you?

I can’t do it again if it’s a lackluster offseason. I’m just saying, I’m not mad today.

pablo is awesome. It’s the moon or fuck off

"To the moon or fuck off" is so stupid. To get value, you need to give value. we have eury, who by all accounts is the best pitching prospect we've had since Jose. He hasn't pitched in the majors but he can be reasonably counted on to produce something next year. If someone is being shopped for two years but you don't trade him because you're not getting the offers you want, you are overvaluing the player.

There is literally nothing pablo can do in the next 2 months that will improve his value. there is only injury risk. He's stayed healthy all year finally, he's produced like he always has when he's been healthy, which is at a top of the rotation on a great team level, and nothing in these next two months will improve his value. even if he stays healthy, there is still the injury risk. To not trade him because you don't get an overpay is so stupid when you have Rojas, Aguilar, Garcia, Stallings, and Anderson currently in your lineup on a daily basis.

We already know they arent re-signing him in 2 years and we already know they are not signing a big name bat in free agency. to not trade him for multiple upper minors bats who can start next year is flat out malpractice. And even if its not pablo today, to not find some sort of Jazz/Gallen move yet again at the deadline despite a clear and obvious need at almost every position other than 2b is nothing other than mismanagement of the highest order.

[fish16]

Every player can get hurt

what if Cabrera looks good and they 1-1 Jazz him somewhere and keep Pablo this offseason

The same thing has then just happened. Pitching for a bat, and the Marlins kept the better pitcher in his prime gunning for a huge FA deal

perspective

or Cabrera gets hurt again and you REALLY need Pablo

perspective

Cabrera is a mid 100s prospect. Uber talented, but proven nothing and nothing close to the value that pablo would have on the open market. Pablo is a proven #2 starter with 2 years of team control left. the value of the 2 of them is nowhere close. And also, id be fine if they traded cabrera, but pablo is the only realistic piece they can trade that can get you multiple lineup pieces immediately. If they had any chance of re-signing pablo in 2 years, its ok, but they don't, and NG even just said it as flatly as a GM will ever say it that an extension for him is not in the plans. Pablo is the one guy with huge value on the trade market that can fill 2-3 lineup spots with cost controlled prospects for the next 6 years. And they fucked it up once more because they continue to overvalue him on the trade market and refuse to trade value to get value.

And the dodgers are going to show you what a real franchise does with their prospects over the next 2 months as they just called up Miguel vargas. That is what real teams do. you don't play service time games 6 years into a rebuild. this is what, year 5? stop the service time game bullshit, get hitting talent in here, and create a real team, not a paper team that we all look at on paper as good but fails every year because of injuries and a refusal to really invest in the lineup.

[fish16]

and would you look at that, another 4 innings to start a game with no runs. who can watch this shit and continue to just let is fester with no fucking moves to improve this lineup?

[fish16]

and even dumber, tonight aguilar starts at 1b and lewin DH. what in the fuck is this team doing? How does Mattingly still have a job? What is the fucking vision here?

[Nick]

Rumors of Garrett’s demise were greatly exaggerated.

[sports24/7]

On a possible extension for Pablo Lopez Marlins GM Kim Ng said “On something like that, we’ll wait a bit.”

LOL.

[lou]

It’s not good though, talented doesn’t equal good. Rogers has been horrible all year, luzardo is going to end up a multi inning Andrew Miller clone because he doesn’t have the stamina to effectively go deep into games, Cabrera hasn’t proven he can stay healthy, Eder hasn’t thrown a pitch post tommy John, sixto hasn’t pitched in two years, and eury hasn’t thrown a major league pitch. They have spent two years wasting time with a clear and obvious surplus of talented pitching and a clear and obvious dearth of talented major league level hitters.

they have blown an enormous two year window to trade 2 of these guys for pitching or Pablo for an immediate upgrade at at least 2 positions.

So basically, you're saying all these guys suck with the left hand, and with the right hand they need to trade them all for upgrades.

Cool.

[lou]

"To the moon or fuck off" is so stupid. To get value, you need to give value. we have eury, who by all accounts is the best pitching prospect we've had since Jose. He hasn't pitched in the majors but he can be reasonably counted on to produce something next year. If someone is being shopped for two years but you don't trade him because you're not getting the offers you want, you are overvaluing the player.

There is literally nothing pablo can do in the next 2 months that will improve his value. there is only injury risk. He's stayed healthy all year finally, he's produced like he always has when he's been healthy, which is at a top of the rotation on a great team level, and nothing in these next two months will improve his value. even if he stays healthy, there is still the injury risk. To not trade him because you don't get an overpay is so stupid when you have Rojas, Aguilar, Garcia, Stallings, and Anderson currently in your lineup on a daily basis.

We already know they arent re-signing him in 2 years and we already know they are not signing a big name bat in free agency. to not trade him for multiple upper minors bats who can start next year is flat out malpractice. And even if its not pablo today, to not find some sort of Jazz/Gallen move yet again at the deadline despite a clear and obvious need at almost every position other than 2b is nothing other than mismanagement of the highest order.

If we ignore Jose Berrios, Luis Castillo, Frankie Montas, and other SP trades, yes Pablo has no value. But if we live in this reality, he is fine. What are you complaining about here, the third guy in a deal for Pablo is going to be FV40 versus FV40+ this offseason or next deadline? This is what the complaint is? You have no perspective here. None. You are emotional and frustrated they suck.

They also shouldn't resign Pablo. He needed to be bought out before this explosion. He costs more than Sandy now so no thanks.

Malpractice is defending Lewis Brinson in 2021.

A Gallen/Jazz trade is most probable in offseason.

They should have probably moved Floro/Okert (at least one) and Cooper though. But what were they going to get, more FV40 guys? Not a big deal here. I think we just learned today a lot of the guys like Cartaya, Moreno, Campusano, Peraza, etc. were pipe dreams.

[lou]

Cabrera is a mid 100s prospect. Uber talented, but proven nothing and nothing close to the value that pablo would have on the open market. Pablo is a proven #2 starter with 2 years of team control left. the value of the 2 of them is nowhere close. And also, id be fine if they traded cabrera, but pablo is the only realistic piece they can trade that can get you multiple lineup pieces immediately. If they had any chance of re-signing pablo in 2 years, its ok, but they don't, and NG even just said it as flatly as a GM will ever say it that an extension for him is not in the plans. Pablo is the one guy with huge value on the trade market that can fill 2-3 lineup spots with cost controlled prospects for the next 6 years. And they fucked it up once more because they continue to overvalue him on the trade market and refuse to trade value to get value.

And the dodgers are going to show you what a real franchise does with their prospects over the next 2 months as they just called up Miguel vargas. That is what real teams do. you don't play service time games 6 years into a rebuild. this is what, year 5? stop the service time game bullshit, get hitting talent in here, and create a real team, not a paper team that we all look at on paper as good but fails every year because of injuries and a refusal to really invest in the lineup.

Cabrera graduated but would be top 100.

You're making an argument of why to keep Pablo as a # 2 SP. Also it is VERY - VERY - debateable if he'd get multiple lineup pieces immediately. If he WAS going to get that, they WOULD have done that. The deals must have sucked. No deal is better than a bad one. You need to understand that or shut up.

Again, there shouldn't be an extension. She is RIGHT. You can though criticize them for not signing him to a deal BEFORE this season if you want. Seems risky so I don't blame them with the SP depth. Meyer being hurt changes this equation with hindsight bias.

The Dodgers are past the super 2 deadline and contending. Calling up ANYONE is fair game right now. Jesus christ. If you want to be mad go for it, but you've lost the little objectivity you have.

[lou]

and even dumber, tonight aguilar starts at 1b and lewin DH. what in the fuck is this team doing? How does Mattingly still have a job? What is the fucking vision here?

Now THIS is 100% accurate. This is idiotic. Lewin is the defender here!!!!!

Anthony Bourdain had a great quote, if your hostess suck/napkins not folded right, what's wrong with the kitchen.

This is a what's wrong with the kitchen type lineup decision. There is -0- reason to not have Lewin in the field over Aguilar if those guys are playing 1B and DH tonight. -0-

[lou]

Rumors of Garrett’s demise were greatly exaggerated.

Awesome. Just caught up to the box score.

Straight up, him turning into call it a #4ish SP is a huge huge development. It deflects Meyer being hurt at least a season.

I still don't think this makes Pablo expendable (however sign a # 4 innings eater in the hypothetical offseason and you'll convince me), just kudos to the team for continuing to develop and believe in Garrett.