2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[sports24/7]

The best deal for Pablo probably comes 90 minutes before the deadline after everyone has extinguished cheaper options. We can be annoyed for lack of movement, but it's like this every year.

My guess is, we get multiple moves that make sense on paper with 2-3 BIG moves still needed in the offseason. Which likely won't happen because (1) cheap and (2) front office knows they need a year for Eury/Eder/Sixto/Meyer/Cabrera/Berry/Bleday/new comers to get feet wet and/or healthy so why try and 2023. Make the hail mary team.

You know, endless cycle.

And if they pull off a great deal at the last minute, I'll be thrilled. It doesn't have to be now for me, as long as they get a good deal done for him. I'm just not sure I trust Ng to navigate these waters, though. And if there are good deals available, waiting until the last minute only to see other teams pull out would be incredibly frustrating, but entirely believable for a front office who's been left on the sidelines with deals reportedly in play both last deadline, and this past offseason.

Absolutely agreed on the likely scenario for the offseason.

[lou]

Montas to NYY for a FV50, 45, 40, and 35 prospects
(Castillo FV55 (assuming Marte a LF), 40+, 40, and 40)

Pablo has an extra year of control than these guys, even if arguably they may be a little better. These are floor deals for him.

FV55/50, FV45 (or better), FV40+, and FV40 is probably what they'd get.... and throw in Bass or Cooper or Berti or Wendle or Rojas or Floro and get that 2nd player upgraded and another good FV40+ or better I say added outright.

Or keep him and spend money Bruce.

Fine with either!

[sports24/7]

I liked the return for Castillo. I don't love the return for Montas. If they can't get better than that, that's when I'd hold.

[Namaste]

Yankees gave up a kid with a K/9 of over 13

[Namaste]

Is Pablo and Bass enough to pry Moreno, Martinez and a lottery ticket away from the Blue Jays?

[lou]

Is Pablo and Bass enough to pry Moreno, Martinez and a lottery ticket away from the Blue Jays?

Probably not. I think Moreno is their Eury even with Kirk.

I’d love to get Janson off them as well as Leo Gimenez. Extend Janson for like 4/$25-30. He’s an asset when healthy. This is assuming medical check out.

I’d kick them very fast Pablo, Bass, Berti, and Floro for Martinez, Janson, Gimenez, and a lottery ticket. Hell give them Stallings also to bridge to Moreno when 40 man’s expand.

Effectively long term C, 3B, and your 4th IF who can play SS/3B

… so you’d keep Anderson, Wendle, and Rojas for 2023 and still have Aguilar and Cooper/Lewin to trade. $75m ish…. Prospect trade Salas/Watson and others for a CF and the team writes itself as we wait for Eury, Berry, Eder, Sixto, Martinez, and Gimenez. Would probably be smart to sign a 4th SP project to eat innings. If the CF is good, it works on paper

[lou]

Also Luzardo is going to be awesome in whatever role he lands

[Nick]

I read the Dodgers are in on Pablo.

Give me:

To Dodgers: Pablo

To Marlins: Diego Cartaya, Andy Pages, Miguel Vargas and Jacob Amaya

It'd definitely be a playing for 2024 move which sucks, but considering Eury and Eder are probably only going to be limited to getting their feet wet in the big leagues in 2023, not to mention Meyer, and then hopefully staples in 2024, that might be for the best. Pages, Vargas and Amaya all get their shot in 2023, and then Cartaya come up in 2024 to split time with Fortes and eventually take over as starter.

[fish16]

I read the Dodgers are in on Pablo.

Give me:

To Dodgers: Pablo

To Marlins: Diego Cartaya, Andy Pages, Miguel Vargas and Jacob Amaya

It'd definitely be a playing for 2024 move which sucks, but considering Eury and Eder are probably only going to be limited to getting their feet wet in the big leagues in 2023, not to mention Meyer, and then hopefully staples in 2024, that might be for the best. Pages, Vargas and Amaya all get their shot in 2023, and then Cartaya come up in 2024 to split time with Fortes and eventually take over as starter.

That’s too much for Pablo but I can see a combo of Pablo bass and Cooper going to the dodgers for a big package like that

[fish16]

if we can find a way to get cartaya AND vargas, the rest of the pieces dont matter to me. those are 2 huge addiitons to the lineup long term. I'd immediately call up vargas and play him every day the rest of the year. IF they can get cartaya, vargas, and michael busch, id give them whatever they want from our roster obviously other than sandy and jazz. If we have to give up bass and cooper as well, so be it, though i want to try to keep cooper for next year because he's just a steady bat (even if he's nothing special) and we've shown no ability to find that corner outfield bat.

[lou]

That’s too much for Pablo but I can see a combo of Pablo bass and Cooper going to the dodgers for a big package like that

I agree - however Pages, Vargas, and Amaya is exactly the 1-2-3 I'd target. I don't love the scouting reports on defense with Pages and Vargas as they both suggest they will move off CF and 3B respectively in 1-3 years.... but if they can do it for right now combined with Sanchez/Bleday can also cover some CF and I assume there will be plenty of 1B and DH opportunities in coming years for Vargas.... it works. Amaya seems like a perfect utility guy and Rojas successor. Dodgers infielder pipeline?

Throw in Cooper and probably Bass/Floro/Okert/Bleier for their bullpen (they could use 1 more reliever, but they may be bigger game fishing after Hader deal, etc.)... and I'd ask for

Pages, Vargas, Amaya, and say Michael Grove, Eddys Leonard, and James Outmann on top of that. This is a FV50, FV45+, FV45, FV45, FV40, and FV40 package...or in Marlins prospect terms:

Salas, I. Lewis, Fulton, Morisette, Poteet, and Henry in players. That's pretty good. I think we'd like more of a centerpiece for Pablo though, but the depth of this deal would round somethings out maybe. Also I picked those guys especially from the Dodgers as those later 3 have to be 40 man protected and they have a GLUT of guys they will have to move so it's taking advantage of that.

If we throw Garica/Soler off the team in this scenario, the 2025 internal team is:

Fortes, Henry
Berry, Lewin
Jazz
Amaya, Nunez
Vargas, Leonard/Williams
Bleday
Sanchez, Outmann/Burdick
Pages

With the bat pipeline Salas, Watson, Lewis, Cappe, Morisette, Mack, R. Hernandez, A. Santos, McCants, + 2023 and 2024 draft picks.

A lot of room for improvement needed here but they'd have NUMBERS so when guys ultimately fail or get hurt, free agents (lol) can be added. To note, the catchers, Lewin, and Sanchez are in arbitration 1 here, and Jazz arbitration 2. So he'll be expensive and no one else. Soler is off the books for sure, maybe Garcia if they are able to trade him next 2+ years. Sandy, Luzardo, and Rogers would be expensive but no one else. Basically GREAT BOOKS(!) to add 2-3 free agents. Bruce. BRUCE?


That being said, I think I prefer keeping Pablo and playing for 2023 if this is the best deal. I think they need impact 2023 (at least one, not all get feet wet guys)... not 2024 and beyond guys really.

[lou]

if we can find a way to get cartaya AND vargas, the rest of the pieces dont matter to me. those are 2 huge addiitons to the lineup long term. I'd immediately call up vargas and play him every day the rest of the year. IF they can get cartaya, vargas, and michael busch, id give them whatever they want from our roster obviously other than sandy and jazz. If we have to give up bass and cooper as well, so be it, though i want to try to keep cooper for next year because he's just a steady bat (even if he's nothing special) and we've shown no ability to find that corner outfield bat.

Cartaya and Vargas also work with what I typed above and throw out Pages. Get a "real" CF somewhere else.

That is better if they would actually move him (I doubt it, but they did just extend Austin Barnes), but now we're really circling 2024 with Cartaya. Can we sit on Sandy another year?

Also you call Vargas up 16 service days in to the 2023 season and "Kris Bryant" the service time. Let him be a super 2, but preserve the "7th" control year. If they didn't do this with Meyer this year, they wouldn't do it with Vargas you know

[fish16]

Cartaya and Vargas also work with what I typed above and throw out Pages. Get a "real" CF somewhere else.

That is better if they would actually move him (I doubt it, but they did just extend Austin Barnes), but now we're really circling 2024 with Cartaya. Can we sit on Sandy another year?

Also you call Vargas up 16 service days in to the 2023 season and "Kris Bryant" the service time. Let him be a super 2, but preserve the "7th" control year. If they didn't do this with Meyer this year, they wouldn't do it with Vargas you know

I'm sick of the service time stuff. the guy is ML ready and if you're really trying to compete next year, get him some ML experience to end the year and hope he finds some holes in his game that the major league pitchers will exploit and have him work on it in the offseason and try to hit the ground running opening day next year. It is admittedly short sighted, but I'm tired of playing for 7 years from now. With our luck anyways he will stink and it will be meaningless. Or if he hits you've found a cornerstone hitter and you can deal with the free agency aspect a half decade from now.

[fish16]

I wouldnt mind a combo of getting prospects for pablo AND getting a hitter like Laureano for next year. The price for Laureano cant be that high one year from free agency and not exactly having the best last few years. He will be a decent stop gap for next year in CF and gives you another year to find a long term option there. Give them a fulton type prospect and bring him in, then deal pablo, cooper, and bass for Cartaya, Busch, and Vargas.

All of a sudden next year you're looking at

C- Fortes/Cartaya later in the year
1b- Busch/Lewin
2b- Jazz
SS- GO GET CORREA
3b- Vargas
LF- Bleday
CF- Laureano
RF- Sanchez
DH- Garcia

SP- Sandy, Eury, Luzardo, Cabrera, Rogers, go sign a stop gap back end of the rotation guy, then you still have guys like Garrett, Sixto, Eder, and eventually Meyer in 2024.
They wont do what it takes to get Correa so it's a pipedream, but a pablo deal done right plus the ownership showing at all that they care about the teams on field performance, and you have a realistic pathway to contention.

I desperately want Vargas and Busch because I think you can plug them in at the corner infield spots for the next 5 years and get serious production from those positions that it feels like we haven't had since Cabrera, Lee, and Mike Lowell. It's been nothing but stop gaps or mediocre guys like Prado and BA and Aguilar since then.

Also, i wouldn't be shocked to see a big market team grab soler today.

[fish16]

the thing i like about busch and vargas is the OBP combo with the plate discipline and lack of k's. We need less swing and miss guys and more guys with some pure power and they fit both boxes. I'd have to see the package back for pablo but if you forget cartaya and just do a straight up Busch and vargas for Pablo deal, Id highly consider that as well if you can get two more flier bats along with them.