2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[lou]

The universal reception right now seems to be that Miami did really well here. Maybe Nicolas turns into a Kevin Millwood, but what are the odds that he does? I would say it's more likely that none of these three ever amount to anything more than just ok, than any of them turn into much. And while Stallings is far from a star, you're talking about a solid catcher in a league short on catching, who is very good defensively and should be a nice piece for our young pitchers to work with.

They are trading 17 years of control from 3 guys that do have some real upside for a 32 year old catcher for 3 years of control. Don't get me wrong, I like Stallings and this is generally FINE as they needed a catcher, but I'm surprised he cost this much. You'd expect a lesser 2nd or even 3rd player. I think the Pirates did great here. They made excellent dart throws.

[lou]

Big fan. I like Nicolas a lot and it may be a slight overpay but I think it’s a big big upgrade even if Stallings doesn’t hit.

It is. They have a top 10 catcher combo, assuming they keep Alfaro.

Time for CF.

[Nick]

It’s a huge upgrade considering how terrible our catching was last year, but to me Stallings is a middle of the pack starting catcher. Just feels like we’re gunning for mediocrity instead of greatness.

[emkayseven]

Mish says they’re looking to trade Alfaro. Think that’s a mistake, would love his pop on the bench

[Nick]

Mish says they’re looking to trade Alfaro. Think that’s a mistake, would love his pop on the bench

I wouldn’t mind it. He swings at everything and getting only 8 ABs a week is not going to help that. I’m confident Fortes is ready to assume the backup role and will be a good one.

[rmc523]

Mish says they’re looking to trade Alfaro. Think that’s a mistake, would love his pop on the bench

With Sanchez a Yankee, and we all know Yankee = future Marlin.........could we see them trade Alfaro, and bring in Sanchez as a backup catcher and DH.

[Lee Stone]

I wouldn’t mind it. He swings at everything and getting only 8 ABs a week is not going to help that. I’m confident Fortes is ready to assume the backup role and will be a good one.

Alfaro 4 HR in 295 ab last season. Fortes 4 HR in 31 ab.

[fish16]

It is. They have a top 10 catcher combo, assuming they keep Alfaro.

Time for CF.

in what world is jacob fucking stallings and jorge alfaro a top 10 catcher combo? Neither can hit. among catchers with at least 70 PA's last year, stallings had the 29th best WRC+. its a really bad, uninspiring, ridiculously low upside trade. Does it help the defense? of course. does it help the offense? Not all that much if at all. Stallings has been a legitimately below average hitter for 3 straight years as a starter, has absolutely no power, and realistically could be a worse hitter than alfaro if he bounces back next year. He is the type of guy that would have been super overrated in the late 90s and mid 2000s and the kind of guy most teams have trended away from the last few years as fewer and fewer of these all defense no bat catchers get significant AB's.

I saw someone cheering how much this helps the pitching staff. we had one of the best rotations in the league last year with the catcher play we already had. was an upgrade needed? Absolutely, but the defense wasn't where the upgrade was most desperately needed. We will be fortunate given the likely return of the DH, but if for some reason it is not back next year, this move is a complete disaster and our lineup is already 2 bad bats guaranteed to be in the lineup every day. We have prospect depth and there are several established guys like Garver or Kelly available or you could have gotten an upper minors prospect with years of team control and not really impacted the top part of the farm much. Instead we got a 31 going on 32 year old career bad hitter who will improve our catching defense only. From a team that needs impact bats more than almost any other team in the league, they got a bad hitting catcher who will be 32 years old at the beginning of next year. And they kind of gave up way too much to get him. just a truly disappointing, low upside, bad fucking trade.

[fish16]

Mish says they’re looking to trade Alfaro. Think that’s a mistake, would love his pop on the bench

Alfaro in his last 2 years has 7 hr's in nearly 400 AB's. He doesn't walk, and he swings at literally everything. He had some of the worst ab's I have ever seen and I watched a lot of Miguel Olivo and mike jacobs. he would be an awful bench bat getting 1 start a week.

[fish16]

It’s a huge upgrade considering how terrible our catching was last year, but to me Stallings is a middle of the pack starting catcher. Just feels like we’re gunning for mediocrity instead of greatness.

couldn't agree more.

[Namaste]

Who were they supposed to go get at catcher that was going to make some insane impact on the team in 2022?

[Nick]

Who were they supposed to go get at catcher that was going to make some insane impact on the team in 2022?

How easy it would've been to acquire these guys I don't know, but I would've preferred a ready top prospect like Gabriel Moreno or Luis Campusano. Carson Kelly, Mitch Garver to go along with Buxton. There were three things they needed to acquire in my mind, C/CF/Corner OF. They have 2 of the 3, and I'm underwhelmed by the 1st 2. They need to acquire a star in CF, and I'm not sure that guy is out there. They've decided not to spend serious money, and not to trade our plethora of pitching talent. Hopefully they wow me with the CF acquisition, but I'm not seeing it, right now.

[fish16]

Who were they supposed to go get at catcher that was going to make some insane impact on the team in 2022?

Kelly or Varsho, whichever the dbacks didn't want out of the 2, Campusano, Garver from the Twins, wouldn't have given up much for him but contreras from the cubs, one of the Toronto catchers, Sean Murphy from the a's. There were a number of guys who would have cost more but had much more upside than going for a catcher who is a below average hitter, will be 32 next year, and has literally 0 hope to be an above average hitter from the catcher position. Hell I would have even taken Gary Sanchez over stallings.

[sports24/7]

I’m surprised at the attitude towards this trade here. It’s being celebrated as a nice move for the Marlins everywhere else. Yankees fans are pissed they missed out on him. The guy is a fantastic defensive catcher (he had 21 defensive runs saved last year!), and was probably the best one they could have acquired. Would a Moreno or Campusano have big upside? Sure. But they want to compete now, and this guy helps them do that. I also don’t understand the question about how much better do we want our starters to be. I know I’d like to see them be as good as possible. I’d like to see someone who knows what they’re doing behind the plate handle guys like Cabrera and Luzardo. We knew they needed a catcher, and I don’t know who else people expected that was realistically available, that would have been better AND cost such a relatively low price.

[Lee Stone]

Stallings had the fifth highest WAR among NL catchers last season (per fangraphs), well ahead of Willson Contreras and Carson Kelly. He's a major league average hitter, not bad for a catcher. That said, I think Pittsburg did a good job in the negotiations.as well. Both teams can point to the deal with pride.

Based on that same Fangraphs WAR, Stallings had the fourth highest rating of all Marlins for the 2021 season, behind only 1) Rogers 2) Alcantara and 3) Avisail Garcia. For those looking for the upside of the two Marlins deals, they acquired the team's two best position players based on Fangraphs compilations.