2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[rmc523]

Well, with the conclusion of today's game, the Marlins' season is over, so we can shift into offseason mode. Obviously no moves will be made until the conclusion of the WS, but we can start a thread/the discussion anyway.

The big question - will they spend and make moves? For me, if they don't make an honest effort to - or don't - acquire several guys via FA and trades, I'm just going to take Stanton's advice an "watch from afar" - I'm not going to put in the time and effort of following the team and all their games if ownership won't put effort and money into building it. I've been supportive of the rebuild, and obviously on the pitching side, we've done well. They need to complement that and get the offense we need to compete. Getting scrap heap guys and rolling the dice as usual isn't going to work.

Kim Ng made some comments the other day of “We are going to have some money to spend. … We feel that we are primed to do very well with the pitching set up as it is and with us being able to spend some money on bats this offseason.”

The "some" money isn't confidence inspiring at all.

After that, Jeter made the comment: “For the first time really since we’ve been here as an ownership group, I expect to be pretty active” in the offseason. Jeter also said the focus will be on adding hitting to augment “one of the top pitching staffs in baseball.” In the video of his comments, he talked about spending, and immediately walked that back with the asterisk of "it takes two sides" - which to me means they'll have a limited budget/numbers in mind and if they don't get the guy for their number they won't spend.

Obviously we won't know what will happen, but it's time to put up or shut up. Even die hard fans are ready to jump ship - I hope they realize this.

[rmc523]

I hope they continue working on possible extensions (namely, Sandy) in the meantime until the offseason fully begins.

[gustavopim]

2022 is the last year I'm renewing my Season tickets if they don't do anything. The team only gets worst, the Marlins Park experience only gets worst, the MLB app experience is terrible.

I was there on Saturday and in the team store was running a "40% off fan appreciation discount" in which you could see the new label at $29.99 and THE OLD LABEL UNDER IT AT $24.99. So they were jacking up the price to give us a discount. Totally ridiculous for the very few fans that still support the team.

The ballpark ushers don't know even to ask you if you are a season ticket holder because they just direct you to the "general" entrance when season tickets should have their own entrance.

The MLB app now has advertising before you start a radio stream or when you change games/networks. I can't watch the Marlins without cable because of blackout rules. So for this whole year, I had to VPN my way since Youtube TV doesn't have Bally sports anymore, the Bally Sports App logs you out every day and I had to ask my friends to log in. Such a pain in the ass

If they don't start investing some serious money in the team this offseason I don't see why I should keep investing my money and time to go see them in the ballpark.

[sports24/7]

I don't know if anyone listened to Mish's latest podcast, but he had some interesting things to say. He said he thinks they're going to spend. He said this year is a huge one for the organization, and there is a lot of pressure to win. He said literally nothing is off the table when it comes to making moves. He also mentioned that he's heard if Castellanos opts out that they're going to make a push to sign him.

I'm at the point where I'm going to have to see them actually spend money to believe it, but the idea that they need to win this year makes sense. You can't talk about building a contender and spending money, then do nothing to back that up forever. And theoretically, they'll have new revenue streams to use. I'm not holding my breath, but maybe this offseason gets interesting.

[lou]

Castellanos was very OK in RF last year. You can probably put him out there for 2022, and then move to DH when Aguilar is gone.

You'd need to DFA/trade Cooper but that's whatever. And still trade Pablo/Meyer/Sixto/Cabrera for a stud CF And trade someone else for a catcher.


Better idea, offer the Reds a trade for Castellanos and Barnhardt, which can't be much, and get a negotiating window for Nick to give him an extension. That contract is probably 5/$80-90 with an opt out in 2-3 years. Barnhardt is signed for 1/$7.5 and they don't need him. Good stop gap for Marlins even if pricy. Send them Cooper, Bass, and 1-2 other guys they can use. Maybe Neidert/Poteet/Bleier types. No one in Marlins top 15 prospects. Trade him to someone giving him an extension, or lose him for nothing. Clear out space for Stephenson full time.

[lou]

But, I want a Sandy extension and 2 "major" bat acquisitions. That's the minimum.

[rmc523]

I don't know if anyone listened to Mish's latest podcast, but he had some interesting things to say. He said he thinks they're going to spend. He said this year is a huge one for the organization, and there is a lot of pressure to win. He said literally nothing is off the table when it comes to making moves. He also mentioned that he's heard if Castellanos opts out that they're going to make a push to sign him.

I'm at the point where I'm going to have to see them actually spend money to believe it, but the idea that they need to win this year makes sense. You can't talk about building a contender and spending money, then do nothing to back that up forever. And theoretically, they'll have new revenue streams to use. I'm not holding my breath, but maybe this offseason gets interesting.

I just can't believe it unless/until it actually happens.

Jeter's immediate walk back of "it takes two sides" - while true, is not at all confidence inspiring. Sounds like they have their numbers in mind and that's that, take it or leave it.

I guess it's also the first we've really heard them talking about spending something, so I guess that's a positive.

But with Chen off the books, new TV deal, and naming rights deal, there's no excuse not to spend now.

[lou]

I just can't believe it unless/until it actually happens.

Jeter's immediate walk back of "it takes two sides" - while true, is not at all confidence inspiring. Sounds like they have their numbers in mind and that's that, take it or leave it.

I guess it's also the first we've really heard them talking about spending something, so I guess that's a positive.

But with Chen off the books, new TV deal, and naming rights deal, there's no excuse not to spend now.

Totally.

Also, it's why they should probably trade *immediately* for 1 big player with the pitching depth and get Sandy the extension. Make those 2 moves first before major free agency starts so you build some credibility for a free agent to want to be here. Maybe also get all your arbitration cases signed too. Do the little things to show whoever gets the big check, you're literally the missing piece.

[sports24/7]

I'd really like to see them sign Corey Seager if he shakes free from LA. I don't think it'll happen, but I'd love to see it.

[lou]

I'd really like to see them sign Corey Seager if he shakes free from LA. I don't think it'll happen, but I'd love to see it.

It's honestly a pretty short list of who makes sense and qualifies as an "oomph" signing.

Correa, Seager, Bryant, Semien, S. Marte, Castellanos, and if you believe in them, Story and Baez. There is also C. Taylor, but I don't consider him an "oopmh" signing even if he is great and would work well in Miami. Everything else is a stop-gap free agent that shouldn't be a top 2 piece they acquire this offseason.

Also, there are a lot of good pitchers (Max, Kershaw, Gausman, Ray, Stroman, Rodon, Syndergaard, J. Gray who I have a soft spot for, E. Rodriguez, maybe Verlander, etc.). I think the "sneaky" plan would be the Marlins doing two massive pitching trades for bats, call it Pablo in one deal and Meyer in another, and then using free agency money to sign a pitcher to replace Pablo on a 2 year deal (maybe a Sydergaard reclamation project and he gets a good home ballpark in the NL). If Pablo gets you Brandon Marsh and prospects, and Meyer/Watson leads a package of absolutely blowing out the farm for K. Marte/Kelly, you can plug in a veteran SP as your 3/4 starter and have a real nice team on paper. Especially if they continue to splurge on a Loup/lefty veteran reliever on top of this.

I'm hopeful. I think they understand they gotta go for it in year 5 as what are you doing if you don't? The Dolphins and Canes suck, this is a good year to try and make some noise even if the Heat and Panthers look to be really good.

[fish16]

It's honestly a pretty short list of who makes sense and qualifies as an "oomph" signing.

Correa, Seager, Bryant, Semien, S. Marte, Castellanos, and if you believe in them, Story and Baez. There is also C. Taylor, but I don't consider him an "oopmh" signing even if he is great and would work well in Miami. Everything else is a stop-gap free agent that shouldn't be a top 2 piece they acquire this offseason.

Also, there are a lot of good pitchers (Max, Kershaw, Gausman, Ray, Stroman, Rodon, Syndergaard, J. Gray who I have a soft spot for, E. Rodriguez, maybe Verlander, etc.). I think the "sneaky" plan would be the Marlins doing two massive pitching trades for bats, call it Pablo in one deal and Meyer in another, and then using free agency money to sign a pitcher to replace Pablo on a 2 year deal (maybe a Sydergaard reclamation project and he gets a good home ballpark in the NL). If Pablo gets you Brandon Marsh and prospects, and Meyer/Watson leads a package of absolutely blowing out the farm for K. Marte/Kelly, you can plug in a veteran SP as your 3/4 starter and have a real nice team on paper. Especially if they continue to splurge on a Loup/lefty veteran reliever on top of this.

I'm hopeful. I think they understand they gotta go for it in year 5 as what are you doing if you don't? The Dolphins and Canes suck, this is a good year to try and make some noise even if the Heat and Panthers look to be really good.

The name you brought up that I think would be an amazing low key signing is Jon Gray. I thought he made sense this year as a deadline addition if we were still in it but that's a guy who I think on a reasonable 2 year deal could give us enormous value and an innings eating back end of the rotation guy who has good upside. His home road splits are pretty similar so its not all coors field but he has had dominant stretches and if you get half of his starts in our ballpark I can see him taking a next step from a back end rotation guy to something more.

Plus it gives you insurance for the prospects we are relying on. We have Sandy, Rogers, and Sixto essentially locked in for next year, then Luzardo, Elieser, Cabrera, Meyer, and Pablo if he is still there. To me it's a no brainer to plug in one of the holes, see who earns the last spot in the rotation, and if the prospects are the ones who don't make the rotation you're at least giving them more minor league time and you might be able to get the extra year back on cabrera, though I can absolutely envision a scenario where he takes a rogers-esque step forward next spring using the knocks he's taken at the end of this year and learning from them over the offseason.

At the very least though, if its not Gray, we need a back end starter type like that who we can rely on to at least be competent so we don't go all in on young guys and end up with injuries or ineffectiveness and then you have a black hole in the rotation like we did for the first couple months of this year. And it cant be a cheap out guy, spend the legit 5-8 million it will take and get a high upside insurance policy for the rotation.

[fish16]

While we obviously want one of the top studs in free agency, realistically they are likely not going to spend to that extent and for that many years. Mish mentioned Castellanos as a guy they might be interested in and I would love that as long as the years arent 5+. Especially with the DH coming back, his fielding sucks but there is no question he can hit and help anchor the middle of our lineup. Signing him and then trading for a guy like Marsh or other similar top prospect OF bat, you've done a ton to help the lineup and with Aguilar coming back, lewin up for the whole year, Sanchez with more experience, Cooper as a bench bat, and Anderson hopefully fully healthy, you have the makings of a decent passable lineup.

The only question then would be the catcher. Arizona as we have mentioned seems like a perfect trade partner, either for Varsho or Kelly, honestly either would do it for me. As far as ketel marte, he'd be nice but I wouldn't give up the huge packages I've seen mentioned here if that is what it takes. Id rather just spend the money necessary for Starling to come back here on a 3 year deal and run it back.

C- Kelly or Varsho/ Fortes
1b- Lewin
2b- Jazz
SS- Rojas
3b- Anderson
Lf- Castellanos
CF- Starling Marte or Brandon Marsh
RF- Jesus Sanchez
DH- Aguilar and cooper's healthy 25 days

They arent going to fill each hole with a stud, but they need to go into spring 2 deep at every position. you can counteract the lack of high end impact talent with depth and a lineup that has no holes throughout. The DH coming back will do a lot to help the team score more runs. Having the holes we had and adding the pitcher's spot on top of that really compounded the awful offense.

SP= Sandy, Sixto, Rogers, Gray, Luzardo/Cabrera/Elieser/Meyer
RP- Bass, Bender, Floro, Pop, Bleier, Thompson, Okert, and then sign 2 mid level guys for more depth.


Will there be any world in which they sign both Castellanos and Starling back? No. Is it too much to ask for to get this payroll up to 70 million to 80 million that it would take to do this? Not at all. This team while they sucked this year is in a very good position to contend in the not too distant future, its up to the ownership to pay the money it would take to do so. this rebuild was always contingent upon the ownership group spending when it was time to spend. Now they need to put up or shut up. Theyve done a great job rebuilding the organization to have the young players under team control to produce a contender for at least a 5 year run, but they need to complete the last, absolutely mandatory step to do so.

[Nick]

I wish one of our beat reporters had the balls to ask why this organization would buy a major league baseball team and be content have it's payroll sit at less than half of the league average.

[fish16]

I wish one of our beat reporters had the balls to ask why this organization would buy a major league baseball team and be content have it's payroll sit at less than half of the league average.

For what it’s worth, Samson said that all the payroll projections they had for the future when they bought the team were based in the misguided belief that simply having the previous ownership group out of there would lead to a much bigger tv deal, stadium naming Rights, attendance, and other revenue than has actually
Been the case. Ultimately though to this point I don’t mind them not going for big free agent deals but this off-season there is no excuse. This team is ready to win with a major league offseason. Let’s hope they realize that the only way they will win here is if they spend money this off-season and even if they might not have the money, the need to view it as an upfront investment that will pay in the end with a better team and in turn higher attendance and playoff games

[rmc523]

The name you brought up that I think would be an amazing low key signing is Jon Gray. I thought he made sense this year as a deadline addition if we were still in it but that's a guy who I think on a reasonable 2 year deal could give us enormous value and an innings eating back end of the rotation guy who has good upside. His home road splits are pretty similar so its not all coors field but he has had dominant stretches and if you get half of his starts in our ballpark I can see him taking a next step from a back end rotation guy to something more.

Plus it gives you insurance for the prospects we are relying on. We have Sandy, Rogers, and Sixto essentially locked in for next year, then Luzardo, Elieser, Cabrera, Meyer, and Pablo if he is still there. To me it's a no brainer to plug in one of the holes, see who earns the last spot in the rotation, and if the prospects are the ones who don't make the rotation you're at least giving them more minor league time and you might be able to get the extra year back on cabrera, though I can absolutely envision a scenario where he takes a rogers-esque step forward next spring using the knocks he's taken at the end of this year and learning from them over the offseason.

At the very least though, if its not Gray, we need a back end starter type like that who we can rely on to at least be competent so we don't go all in on young guys and end up with injuries or ineffectiveness and then you have a black hole in the rotation like we did for the first couple months of this year. And it cant be a cheap out guy, spend the legit 5-8 million it will take and get a high upside insurance policy for the rotation.

I'm always a proponent of a vet SP signing for the inevitable injuries and/or innings limits for younger guys.