2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[lou]

I don't put much stock in Cabrera's rough first 28 major league innings - they looked a lot like what Trevor Rogers did. I see an outstanding year ahead for Edward.

Thank you for acknowledging SSS are not that important. He's going to be fine, it's a question of role. He has 120+ innings to throw so I think a Johan Santana build up is best.

[lou]

Reds reporter thinks Castellanos to Marlins, not sure if Jeter news changes - https://twitter.com/ctrent/status/14...nz4cT5eO-isuRQ

This makes sense to me if one of Aguilar/Cooper are ditched, and a SP is moved for a controlled CF (Marsh, Kelenic, maybe even Reynolds as they *could* afford it).

Could you imagine though if they traded MilB assets (Watson, Eury, Burdick) and Bass for Reynolds, moved Aguilar/Cooper for literally whatever to clear payroll, and signed Castellanos? This is a "keep" Pablo scenario so the SP is fully intact with Sixto/Meyer waiting in the wings.

All of sudden opening day is this. This is an awesome lineup. They might get 7-8 WAR out of the bottom 3 spots in the order.

2B Jazz
CF B. Reynolds
DH Castellanos
RF Garcia
LF Sanchez
1B Aguilar/Cooper
3B Anderson
SS Rojas
C Stallings

[Nick]

I don't either - it's an Angels perspective. Built to win and they do need arms.

Which is also why swap Cooper for Anderson in your hypo and take their #3/4 prospect instead. Anderson is also better for the Marlins and they have Rendon you know? Their OF is still Upton-Trout-Adell, with Walsh at 1B and Walsh/Cooper playing LF/RF/DH. It works for them for sure.

Yeah that makes sense too.

[Nick]

Reds reporter thinks Castellanos to Marlins, not sure if Jeter news changes - https://twitter.com/ctrent/status/14...nz4cT5eO-isuRQ

This makes sense to me if one of Aguilar/Cooper are ditched, and a SP is moved for a controlled CF (Marsh, Kelenic, maybe even Reynolds as they *could* afford it).

Could you imagine though if they traded MilB assets (Watson, Eury, Burdick) and Bass for Reynolds, moved Aguilar/Cooper for literally whatever to clear payroll, and signed Castellanos? This is a "keep" Pablo scenario so the SP is fully intact with Sixto/Meyer waiting in the wings.

All of sudden opening day is this. This is an awesome lineup. They might get 7-8 WAR out of the bottom 3 spots in the order.

2B Jazz
CF B. Reynolds
DH Castellanos
RF Garcia
LF Sanchez
1B Aguilar/Cooper
3B Anderson
SS Rojas
C Stallings

My only question to signing Castellanos, is why the fuck did you sign Garcia if you were also going to sign Castellanos? Sign Castellanos and Rizzo for like 3 years / $45 million instead of the 4 years / $53 million we gave Garcia, save money years and have a better and more even lefty/righty lineup.

[lou]

My only question to signing Castellanos, is why the fuck did you sign Garcia if you were also going to sign Castellanos? Sign Castellanos and Rizzo for like 3 years / $45 million instead of the 4 years / $53 million we gave Garcia, save money years and have a better and more even lefty/righty lineup.

Agree entirely - it feels like they could have used Garcia money at SP/CF/1B/DH versus a corner OF in this hypo. Their worst case scenario would be opening 2022 with what.... DLC/Cooper platoon in RF and Bleday/Burdick in AAA.... like that's fine to bank on one of those 4 being good enough (or Wendle and move Anderson to RF!) if you trade for Marsh/Kelenic/Reynolds/Ketel/Mullins for CF, sign Castellanos/Schwarber/Rizzo, and then used money for Greinke + Kenley/reliever?

Guess we'll see.

[sports24/7]

Imagine Jeter leaving because he disagrees with trading prospects for superstar B. Reynolds. If that's the case... good riddance Jeets. I'll be a little bummed Watson and Eury get moved, but pretty F'ing happy Bryan Reynolds is coming back and they can sign him to a 6-7 year deal like Sandy.

Encouraging or cheap? This will be interesting.

I'm fine trading B. Anderson if that opens up other moves. He's good and cheap, and they'd need another platoon 3B guy at minimum, but they can handle that.

Mish's theory (and he says some have told him he's wrong) is that Jeter wanted to hoard prospects and add all their talent via FA. Obviously that's not going to happen in this market, and there are reasons to send prospects out for proven talent because statistically half of these guys probably won't pan out (just look at our returns in the Miguel Cabrera/WIllis and Yelich deals).

I don't get the sense Reynolds is one of the two deals that is going to happen after the lockout. I feel like I've gotten pretty good at reading the tea leaves with Mish (I was right on the Brian Anderson speculation), and I think Teoscar Hernandez is one of the two. I previously guessed when Barry Jackson reported interest with an AL team that it would be one of the Blue Jays OFers or A's OFers. When someone on Spaces the other night brought up Hernandez he didn't dismiss it (like he tends to do when someone speculated about is wrong), and he kind of started saying "yeah you can guess some names like Hernandez, Gurriel, and Marte". But I don't buy Gurriel or Marte as being two of the real names he's heard because he's kept this very close to the vest.

I also don't believe Brandon Marsh is still in play based on many of the things he's said. Marsh isn't a guy the fanbase is going to get excited about the way Mish has suggested they would. He's also said a few times he hasn't heard that Miami has revisited that deal after it was rejected at the deadline.

So reading the Mish tea leaves, I'm sticking with my prediction of Hernadez and maybe Ramon Laureano as the two OF guys in play right now via trade. It's possible Mish is wrong, but he's usually VERY plugged in to the Marlins, and really to the league as a whole.

[sports24/7]

Also, there are a couple more things I remembered that I forgot to add to what Mish said in his Spaces session. He mentioned that the Marlins still could make a blockbuster trade AND ALSO add a FA bat like a Schwarber. I'm not holding my breath for that, but that would be awesome. Maybe if the report on Castellanos is true, then that's the plan. I'm going to have to see it to believe it with Castellanos, though. I find it hard to believe they're going to pay him the deal he's going to command (probably about $200M).

The other thing was he was asked who he thought the most likely prospect they were going to send out would be, and he said he wasn't sure, but probably Meyer. He did say if Meyer wasn't dealt he thought he had a good chance to come up this year at some point, though, maybe even in the bullpen.

[Nick]

Mish's theory (and he says some have told him he's wrong) is that Jeter wanted to hoard prospects and add all their talent via FA. Obviously that's not going to happen in this market, and there are reasons to send prospects out for proven talent because statistically half of these guys probably won't pan out (just look at our returns in the Miguel Cabrera/WIllis and Yelich deals).

I don't get the sense Reynolds is one of the two deals that is going to happen after the lockout. I feel like I've gotten pretty good at reading the tea leaves with Mish (I was right on the Brian Anderson speculation), and I think Teoscar Hernandez is one of the two. I previously guessed when Barry Jackson reported interest with an AL team that it would be one of the Blue Jays OFers or A's OFers. When someone on Spaces the other night brought up Hernandez he didn't dismiss it (like he tends to do when someone speculated about is wrong), and he kind of started saying "yeah you can guess some names like Hernandez, Gurriel, and Marte". But I don't buy Gurriel or Marte as being two of the real names he's heard because he's kept this very close to the vest.

I also don't believe Brandon Marsh is still in play based on many of the things he's said. Marsh isn't a guy the fanbase is going to get excited about the way Mish has suggested they would. He's also said a few times he hasn't heard that Miami has revisited that deal after it was rejected at the deadline.

So reading the Mish tea leaves, I'm sticking with my prediction of Hernadez and maybe Ramon Laureano as the two OF guys in play right now via trade. It's possible Mish is wrong, but he's usually VERY plugged in to the Marlins, and really to the league as a whole.

Is there a reason the Blue Jays would deal Hernandez? Also can Hernandez handle every day CF duties? He's barely played in center the last 2 years.

[sports24/7]

Is there a reason the Blue Jays would deal Hernandez? Also can Hernandez handle every day CF duties? He's barely played in center the last 2 years.

No idea. I feel like I remember seeing some rumors that they could be on the block. As far as playing CF, he came up as a CF and played there most of the first few years of his career. You might prefer someone who played there more recently, but your options may be somewhat limited, and I'd probably rather him defensively in CF than Ketel Marte despite the fact that Marte has played more CF. And no one seems to have an issue with Marte in CF.

[Lee Stone]

The Diamondbacks had an issue with Ketel Marte in CF last season. They have concluded that experiment and are returning him to 2B.

[lou]

Also, there are a couple more things I remembered that I forgot to add to what Mish said in his Spaces session. He mentioned that the Marlins still could make a blockbuster trade AND ALSO add a FA bat like a Schwarber. I'm not holding my breath for that, but that would be awesome. Maybe if the report on Castellanos is true, then that's the plan. I'm going to have to see it to believe it with Castellanos, though. I find it hard to believe they're going to pay him the deal he's going to command (probably about $200M).

The other thing was he was asked who he thought the most likely prospect they were going to send out would be, and he said he wasn't sure, but probably Meyer. He did say if Meyer wasn't dealt he thought he had a good chance to come up this year at some point, though, maybe even in the bullpen.

This is the way.

It's pitching for 1 bat, and free agency for another. And if the trade is Pablo, you can easily attach Bass and Cooper to that deal which clears like $8-9m bucks (total payroll down to mid/high $50s). Or keep Cooper, and outright ditch Aguilar and save another $4m+

If they are going to spend $80-90, that's $25-35m left to spend which is easily Castellanos/Schwarber (defer some money also) and some sort of arm. Which is all they'd need.

[lou]

The Diamondbacks had an issue with Ketel Marte in CF last season. They have concluded that experiment and are returning him to 2B.

Ketel is awesome, so I think you'd just take the star and deal with the defense for the year. I agree it kicks the CF issue a year down the road... but you've kicked the CF issue a year down the road and then can get Ketel in the IF next season.

That being said, I'd rather move for Reynolds, Marsh, Kelenic, maybe even Mullins if his defense can project in CF for 2-3 years, etc.

[lou]

So reading the Mish tea leaves, I'm sticking with my prediction of Hernadez and maybe Ramon Laureano as the two OF guys in play right now via trade. It's possible Mish is wrong, but he's usually VERY plugged in to the Marlins, and really to the league as a whole.

Laureano + Tony Kemp makes a ton of sense for me. Assuming the package back doesn't include Sandy/Rogers/Pablo which I'm sure it wouldn't.

They would still have money for Schawarber/Castellanos deferring some money off 2022, or, jettisoning Aguilar. And could sign a reliever (maybe not Kenley, but someone).

[fish16]

conforto and bryan reynolds are the targets apparently. If its a big money, 1-2 year deal for conforto, id be all over that. He's a career 124 ops+ and he just had 1 down year, he'd be a tremendous addition at this point. Id much rather have him on a 2 year deal than castellanos on a 4-5 year deal. that's a no brainer to me. Then do whatever prospect OF trade you want.

C- Stalllings
1b- Lewin/Aguilar
2b- Jazz
SS- Rojas
3b- Anderson
LF- Conforto
CF- Prospect
RF- Sanchez
DH- Avisail Garcia/Cooper

Depending on the prospect that's a pretty damn good lineup with a ceiling to be really good if sanchez and jazz take the next step. Bryan reynolds is a nice player, but for the reported asking price I wouldn't touch him. That's too much for a good, not great player. He is just 2 years younger than Conforto, a 128 OPS+ for his career, and he will cost you a shit ton in prospects when we have a lot of OF depth in the upper minors that will be making its way to the major league level in the next 2 years. You can get similar production by just signing conforto and spending money as opposed to raiding the farm system depth we have built for a slight improvement over conforto. Not worth it to me.

If we do make a major trade for a guy that costs a ton of prospects, i'd go as hard as possible for Jose Ramirez. That guy is a true superstar on a great contract. He's the type of guy id raid the farm system for. then you can use Anderson and maybe a pablo or other pitching prospect to fill another hole somewhere else.


C-Stallings
1b- Lewin
2b- JAzz
SS- Rojas
3b- Ramirez
LF- Conforto
CF- Garcia
RF- Sanchez
DH- Aguilar/Cooper
That's a playoff team if our rotation stays healthy.

[Namaste]

A 0.8 WAR is a substantial down year. I don’t want Castellanos on a 4-5 year deal either but we need Reynolds (5.5 WAR) or Ramirez (like you said) or Ketel Marte to make the playoffs. Please fuck no on Conforto.