Marlins Fire Fredi Gonzalez, Jim Presley, Carlos Tosca

[Valid]

Yea, his ERA is 4.44 right now. His other numbers aren't that good either. He is not a good pitcher. I do not care for him, even as a #5 pitcher. Why should I accept that the team I root for was literally not prepared going into the regular season.

Great, he's had a decent first 3 months. If this team wants to be a playoff team, he shouldn't be on this roster. This is more against the front office than Nate mind you. I'm sure he's a great clubhouse guy and loves hijinks.
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Also, I am very ridiculous. I think everyone knows that about me. I'm certifiably insane even.

Okay; go around baseball and tell me how many fifth starters are "good" pitchers. Who else out there would have been a better option for that spot? Miller? RVH? Some random free agent?

And how is making a trade for a legit fifth starter (and whether you like it or not, he is) not being prepared for the regular season? I'm pretty sure that just about every team in baseball goes right down to the wire in determining what their starting rotation will look like.

You keep bashing the front office, yet you have not named a single alternative to the moves they've made.

[Ramp]

Robertson hasn't had an ERA below 5 in 2 seasons. He isn't a legit #5 (albeit through 3 months, he is).

Just because I have no clue who was or wasn't available heading into the season, doesn't mean I have to like or accept a move that is made by the front office.

I just hope we get some more Tim Wood action going on. I can't wait until Clay Hensley comes back to Earth.

[Bobbob1313]

If this team wants to be a playoff team, he shouldn't be on this roster.

What's the difference between Nate Robertson and Kenshin Kawakami? Or Derek Lowe?

Or Jamie Moyer last year? Or Todd Wellemeyer, Kyle Lohse, and Brad Thompson last year?

[Valid]

Robertson hasn't had an ERA below 5 in 2 seasons. He isn't a legit #5 (albeit through 3 months, he is).

Just because I have no clue who was or wasn't available heading into the season, doesn't mean I have to like or accept a move that is made by the front office.

I just hope we get some more Tim Wood action going on. I can't wait until Clay Hensley comes back to Earth.

If you have no clue who was or who wasn't available, then you have no right to rip the FO's decisions. You're just blindly bashing them for no good reason.

[Metes]

If you put yourself in a position where you need to build an entire bullpen or rotation in an offseason, you are not a good front office.

[Valid]

If you put yourself in a position where you need to build an entire bullpen or rotation in an offseason, you are not a good front office.

But they didn't do that.

They went into this season with essentially the same bullpen as '09, but this time, it sucked. The starting rotation is the same as last season except for Robertson instead of the carousel of fifth starters.

[Ramp]

It's true, I'm now blindly bashing the front office. They were right to suggest that we were a playoff team with that ragtag bunch in the bullpen.

The following were free agents going into this year:

Erik Bedard, Jon Garland, Justin Duchscherer (got hurt, I know), Rich Harden, Livan Hernandez, Pedro (still is), Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Ben Sheets (he's been terrible), a couple of guys like Lackey who signed multi year deals.

I just think if you really plan on going for it, and not just pander to the local media, then you fucking go for it. You don't have a weak link (on paper, come on Ricky, you're better than this) in your starting rotation if you can fix it with 1 signing. If you really plan on going for it, go sign a legit bridge pitcher to get to Leo Nunez. For years, we like to throw shit against the wall and see what sticks. We've gotten lucky in the past and this season it's really coming back to haunt us. You can't tell me you are pleased that Clay Hensley is somehow our second best pitcher out of the pen. It's gonna be a bitch when he comes back to Earth.
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I don't think you can say you are going for it, and then when your shitty players actually play like shit, you blame the manager.

I didn't like Fredi, but it ain't his fault he had to send Tim Wood out there all the time.

[nny]

chris leroux (or whoever minus marinez) for rafeal soriano would have put us a ~57m payroll and we'd ahve ace 7-8-9 inning guys with hensley-nunez-soriano

obviously "would braves be interesting in leroux (or whoever) over chavez" thing but yeah

[Metes]

The bullpen sucks because it was never that great to begin with; a lot of those guys had big aberrations from the career numbers. Last year was a huge fluke in that all of those guys had good seasons at the same time.

Going into spring training, #4 and #5 were big question marks. Can't have that.

[Valid]

It's true, I'm now blindly bashing the front office. They were right to suggest that we were a playoff team with that ragtag bunch in the bullpen.

The following were free agents going into this year:

Erik Bedard, Jon Garland, Justin Duchscherer (got hurt, I know), Rich Harden, Livan Hernandez, Pedro (still is), Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Ben Sheets (he's been terrible), a couple of guys like Lackey who signed multi year deals.

I just think if you really plan on going for it, and not just pander to the local media, then you fucking go for it. You don't have a weak link (on paper, come on Ricky, you're better than this) in your starting rotation if you can fix it with 1 signing. If you really plan on going for it, go sign a legit bridge pitcher to get to Leo Nunez. For years, we like to throw shit against the wall and see what sticks. We've gotten lucky in the past and this season it's really coming back to haunt us. You can't tell me you are pleased that Clay Hensley is somehow our second best pitcher out of the pen. It's gonna be a bitch when he comes back to Earth.
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I don't think you can say you are going for it, and then when your shitty players actually play like shit, you blame the manager.

I didn't like Fredi, but it ain't his fault he had to send Tim Wood out there all the time.

Let me break down that list for you:

Bedard: injury-prone schlep who hasn't thrown 100 innings since 2007; you really want to pay him the kind of money he was probably asking for?

Garland: okay; I'll give you him.

Duchscherer: you already said it.

Harden: similar to Bedard except that he has actually pitched a decent amount of innings the last couple of seasons. Again, especially knowing that we needed money to lock up Johnson, did you want to pay him what he was asking for?

Livan: LOL. Come on. Livan could not even stay in the Mets' joke of a starting rotation last year. Yes, he's having a good season this year, but I guarantee you that if we would have signed him, you would have been complaining.

Pedro: you said it yourself. He's "still" available. Don't you think there's a reason why?

Pavano: I'll give you that.

Penny: he's having a good season this year, but please explain to me how how his previous few seasons were any better than Nate's?

Sheets: do I even need to explain this?

Lackey: are you SERIOUS? I know you're upset about the FO being cheap, but come on; this is overkill.

And what "bridge" to get to Leo Nunez? How many times do I have to say that bullpens are a COMPLETE crapshoot (save for a select few relievers)? You keep saying that Hensley is going to come back down to earth when, for all we know, he might follow in the same footsteps as Gardner and Nelson and remain reliable all year long.
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The bullpen sucks because it was never that great to begin with; a lot of those guys had big aberrations from the career numbers. Last year was a huge fluke in that all of those guys had good seasons at the same time.

Going into spring training, #4 and #5 were big question marks. Can't have that.

Yeah, just like every other bullpen in baseball.

[Bobbob1313]

So if we had signed Livan hernandez and said "The Season's gonna end in a pile" you'd have been on board?
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It's gonna be a bitch when he comes back to Earth.

You keep saying this, but regression works both ways. I'm assuming you don't believe that a guy like Dan Meyer is bound to turn it around and pitch like he had last year, right? that's pretty inconsistent.

Clay hensley's never pitched out of the bullpen. Who can say that he hasn't just found something out there that's working really well for him?

[Ramp]

Before I explain the above players... I didn't expect us to sign or even talk to Lackey. Definitely think you misunderstood that.

[Nick]

This really isn't about the bullpen. It's about a culture that's been created by this Front Office where it's perfectly fine for them to not spend money on this team, and then when we don't win they pass the accountability on to everyone but themselves.

[FishFanInPA]

what about picking up Jarrod Washburn?

[Valid]

what about picking up Jarrod Washburn?

He's probably asking for a largely unreasonable sum of money, hence the reason why no one has picked him up yet.