July 2019 Game Thread

[Lee Stone]

Given his contract situation, I'm thinking C Smith might rate as the top trade target for contenders come deadline time. Would you let him go for Kyle Tucker?

[lou]

Given his contract situation, I'm thinking C Smith might rate as the top trade target for contenders come deadline time. Would you let him go for Kyle Tucker?

Yes, and they would never do that as the Astros don't own a playstation

[fish16]

Is this also a good time to mention Nick Wittgren has a .7 WAR in 35 innings and what the hell were they thinking when he had an option?

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He had 3 years of control and was showing big time potential, the bold is patently wrong.

in other words, they had a very valuable reliever to both small and big market teams at the height of his value with 3 years of team control left on a team with a surplus of potential relievers when we actually want to compete and no intention of competing this year. It really isnt that complicated, you trade relievers at the height of their value when they arent guys like Kimbrel. You dont hold on to them at the most volatile position in the sport on a team that doesnt have any intention of competing. Its pretty basic value evaluation.

[lou]

in other words, they had a very valuable reliever to both small and big market teams at the height of his value with 3 years of team control left on a team with a surplus of potential relievers when we actually want to compete and no intention of competing this year. It really isnt that complicated, you trade relievers at the height of their value when they arent guys like Kimbrel. You dont hold on to them at the most volatile position in the sport on a team that doesnt have any intention of competing. Its pretty basic value evaluation.

There is no lefty surplus on the Marlins. You're right, this isn't complicated.

If they turned down FV50 prospects, or a good multi player package highlighted by say a FV45 type and a good FV40 type, they would have made a mistake. I suspect they didn't get that or he would have been moved.

[fish16]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-trad...resting-lefty/


He had a ton of value and they blew a golden opportunity yet again to sell high on a reliever, just like they did with numerous other relievers over the last 10 years, although obviously the current front office had no part in that.

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im fairly certain they did get that. Tjfla can probably lend some insight into what kinds of packages they turned down.

[Namaste]

Victor Victor Mesa’s OPS is up to .579 after a hot streak.

[lou]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-trad...resting-lefty/


He had a ton of value and they blew a golden opportunity yet again to sell high on a reliever, just like they did with numerous other relievers over the last 10 years, although obviously the current front office had no part in that.

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im fairly certain they did get that. Tjfla can probably lend some insight into what kinds of packages they turned down.

It takes two to tango and they found no dance partner.

Find me a player's names they turned down for a guy with a:

2017 era over 6. In over 100 IP
In 2018, threw 19 awesome innings in May, June, and early July
Then in July, got shelled again

We are crying of not selling high on a reliever who threw around 19 good innings after a period of 100 innings in 2017 where he got shelled and demoted, and then started getting shelled again?

What prospect(s) did the Marlins miss for those 20 good innings between May 21, 2018 - July 3, 2018?

[fish16]

It takes two to tango and they found no dance partner.

Find me a player's names they turned down for a guy with a:

2017 era over 6. In over 100 IP
In 2018, threw 19 awesome innings in May, June, and early July
Then in July, got shelled again

We are crying of not selling high on a reliever who threw around 19 good innings after a period of 100 innings in 2017 where he got shelled and demoted, and then started getting shelled again?

What prospect(s) did the Marlins miss for those 20 good innings between May 21, 2018 - July 3, 2018?

this is complete revisionist history. Both him and steckenrider were two of the most sought after relievers on the market last year. Ive already posted dodgers articles weeks ago giving an idea of what players their fans thought they would be willing to give up. That doesnt mean they were available but it gives you an idea of what his value was thought of around the league. I can make the same argument to you, you have no idea what players they turned down. To say he didnt have value is revisionist history plain and simple.

[lou]

this is complete revisionist history. Both him and steckenrider were two of the most sought after relievers on the market last year. Ive already posted dodgers articles weeks ago giving an idea of what players their fans thought they would be willing to give up. That doesnt mean they were available but it gives you an idea of what his value was thought of around the league. I can make the same argument to you, you have no idea what players they turned down. To say he didnt have value is revisionist history plain and simple.

It's not. I'm not interested in what message board folks think what a deal is.

What did they turn down? It's probably a bunch of Ferrells and Quijadas and B. Hernandez and C. Torress types, and none of that matters compared to a guy who was flashing upside with years of control.

As said, if they turned down some FV50/FV45 guys, they probably did mess up. I don't see anyone trading those guys for a pitcher with little track record. None of us would have traded Neidert or Gallen for Adam Conley even if the team was a contender.

[tjfla]

Is this also a good time to mention Nick Wittgren has a .7 WAR in 35 innings and what the hell were they thinking when he had an option?

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He had 3 years of control and was showing big time potential, the bold is patently wrong.

Nothing confirmed but think Denbo/Mattingly had issues with him.

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It's not. I'm not interested in what message board folks think what a deal is.

What did they turn down? It's probably a bunch of Ferrells and Quijadas and B. Hernandez and C. Torress types, and none of that matters compared to a guy who was flashing upside with years of control.

As said, if they turned down some FV50/FV45 guys, they probably did mess up. I don't see anyone trading those guys for a pitcher with little track record. None of us would have traded Neidert or Gallen for Adam Conley even if the team was a contender.

They wanted 1 TOP Prospect and were getting stuff like lou said. NO specific names but was kinda like the Phelps to Seattle deal. They got solid offers for Steck/Conley/Bearclaw shit had 1 offer from Dodgers that was a TOP guy like Will Smith or SP for 2 RP and they wanted MORE

Marlins overplayed there hand and am hearing doing SAME thing on Anderson this year. On other guys they have talked deals for 2/3 THING deals

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Given his contract situation, I'm thinking C Smith might rate as the top trade target for contenders come deadline time. Would you let him go for Kyle Tucker?

If Houston called and offered that Caleb would be in Houston quick. Miami is willing to trade Caleb AND Sandy but only for certain guys. Tucker/Frazier are 2 names I heard but probably few others. They want High end ML ready bats

[fish16]

of course they over played their hand. they do that with relievers all the time. You always trade a reliever at the height of his value on a non contending team.

Didnt we get nick neidert in the phelps trade? Or was that the dee trade and we got pablo lopez, torres, and brayan hernandez who was once one of the top IFA prospects in baseball in the phelps trade?

[tjfla]

of course they over played their hand. they do that with relievers all the time. You always trade a reliever at the height of his value on a non contending team.

Didnt we get nick neidert in the phelps trade? Or was that the dee trade and we got pablo lopez, torres, and brayan hernandez who was once one of the top IFA prospects in baseball in the phelps trade?

Neidert was in Dee

Phelps was Hernandez,Schiraldi,Max Povse till Mike Hill change Povse out for Brandon Miller and Pablo last minute. Brayan Hernandez was the headliner

[lou]

They wanted 1 TOP Prospect and were getting stuff like lou said. NO specific names but was kinda like the Phelps to Seattle deal. They got solid offers for Steck/Conley/Bearclaw shit had 1 offer from Dodgers that was a TOP guy like Will Smith or SP for 2 RP and they wanted MORE

Marlins overplayed there hand and am hearing doing SAME thing on Anderson this year. On other guys they have talked deals for 2/3 THING deals

They should have traded two of those relievers for Will Smith if that was on the table. No questions asked. That was dumb if they did in fact turn that down.

Anderson is controlled for 5.5 years. I am ripping my hair out of seeing stupid bullshit of over playing hands with guys with 5 years of control. Anderson looks awesome and they NEED AWESOME PLAYERS. Reliever volatility blah blah blah. That's why you keep all of them unless it's costing you major arbitration money or all of them are OOO. None of that exist for the present day Marlins.

How stupid is Minnesota right now for moving Pressly and N. Anderson? Don't be Minnesota.

[tjfla]

The thing that killed us was when Cleveland got Brad Hand for Mejia. Marlins saw that and raised the price the next day on all 3

[fish16]

They should have traded two of those relievers for Will Smith if that was on the table. No questions asked. That was dumb if they did in fact turn that down.

Anderson is controlled for 5.5 years. I am ripping my hair out of seeing stupid bullshit of over playing hands with guys with 5 years of control. Anderson looks awesome and they NEED AWESOME PLAYERS. Reliever volatility blah blah blah. That's why you keep all of them unless it's costing you major arbitration money or all of them are OOO. None of that exist for the present day Marlins.

How stupid is Minnesota right now for moving Pressly and N. Anderson? Don't be Minnesota.

If you can get a good prospect for Anderson right now you do it in a heartbeat. Again, relievers arent that valuable on a non contending team with a surplus of pitching coming in the next few years. Anderson is 29. He's a good enough reliever but again, relievers arent that valuable and you trade them 100 times out of 100 if you can get a good hitting or SP prospect back. Also, anderson isnt this shut down reliever. He had a good april and has been pretty mediocre since then. Im fine with keeping him because he is actually a guy you arent going to get much for.