Season Super Game Thread

[Nick]

Urena has an east-west delivery (front side early & rotational), with a low slot, causing frequent misses to his arm side, often big. In my opinion, he was trying to establish the inner half of the plate (WHICH HE SHOULD HAVE DONE) and it got away from him. I don't know what was in Urena's mind, but folks who are adamant he hit him intentionally are over the line, or don't know baseball/mechanics. If he's guilty of anything, its that he doesn't have good enough fastball command to pitch in, off the plate, to right hand hitters.

You can never know 100% for sure whether a pitcher is hitting a guy on purpose, but if you're taking into consideration the timing, situation, Urena's demeanor and body language after, it all leads me to believe it was on purpose. When those stars align, MLB has to do something to send a message, despite the small chance that maybe it wasn't 100% on purpose.

[fish16]

You can never know 100% for sure whether a pitcher is hitting a guy on purpose, but if you're taking into consideration the timing, situation, Urena's demeanor and body language after, it all leads me to believe it was on purpose. When those stars align, MLB has to do something to send a message, despite the small chance that maybe it wasn't 100% on purpose.

ya, it was pretty obvious that was on purpose just from the pitch itself, but Urena's demeanor afterwards made it abundantly clear what he was doing.

[FishTale]

You can never know 100% for sure whether a pitcher is hitting a guy on purpose

That's why people need to shut up about the "intentional" part of it. He pitched inside, it got away from him and the kid got hit. It's part of the game. If Urena had a cleaner delivery, with a higher slot, or Acuna was a lefthand hitter, I might buy the "he hit him intentionally" argument, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Lets move on.

[Nick]

That's why people need to shut up about the "intentional" part of it. He pitched inside, it got away from him and the kid got hit. It's part of the game. If Urena had a cleaner delivery, with a higher slot, or Acuna was a lefthand hitter, I might buy the "he hit him intentionally" argument, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Lets move on.

You can't criticize people saying it's intentional because they can't be 100% sure and then make a definitive statement that it got away from him. You certainly don't know it got away from him.

[FishTale]

You can't criticize people saying it's intentional because they can't be 100% sure and then make a definitive statement that it got away from him. You certainly don't know it got away from him.

Obviously the pitch did get away from Urena because it hit Acuna. What we don't know is his intent. Until he comes out and says he hit him on purpose, knowing his delivery and lack of fastball command, that's plenty enough reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. Play Ball!

[Nick]

If he meant to do it, it didn't get away from him.

[lou]

I will say this......not surprisingly.....there is a TON of OUTRAGE about Ureńa beaning Acuńa. It’s not surprising because we now live in an age where a substantial % of the population is OUTRAGED about EVERYTHING.

This is my take of what went down (and I preface this by saying I’m not a Ureńa fan....I don’t believe he belongs in a MLB starting rotation).

-Acuńa has been murdering Marlins pitching

-Acuńa has pimped a few HR trots and then did some more pimping in the dugout

-Ureńa was like “you know what, fuck this motherfucker who just got to the big leagues this year I’m gonna put one right in the middle of his lats to bring his ass back to earth for a minute”

-Ureńa misses his intended spot, Acuńa turns awkwardly (like Stanton did against Fiers) and it’s a big shit sandwich.



If Ureńa throws it where he meant to, the OUTRAGE wouldn’t be so bad. But now Ureńa has to (rightfully) pay the price.



Anyone who thinks Ureńa should get more than 20 days probably spends all their time being OUTRAGED about everything.

Urena 1st time through: .669 OPS
Urena 2nd time through: .722 OPS
Urena 3rd time through: 901 OPS

You're right, he shouldn't be starting. Steckenrider should pitch 1+ innings depending on pitch count, and Urena pitches to the next 18 batters. #GoRays

(I generally agree with you about the scandal)

[lou]

Also Miami Herald did an opposing scout on young pitchers - https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...216509395.html

TLDR

Alcantara - Love the arm, can start or relieve, needs work on secondary pitches though
Richards - #4 SP on a really good team. Changeup is great, could use a better fastball or secondary pitches
Pablo - Is going to be a non-ace starter for a long time. Did not mention him as a 3 or 4
Urena - Is a 5th SP on a good team
Neidert and Gallen - Maybe profile as starters, fringy stuff. Maybe # 4 SP

Guzman - Is going to be a reliever (Marlins think starter)
Barraclough - Middle reliever on a good team, Marlins wanted way too much at deadline
Steckenrider - Is a good middle reliever, not as good as last year though
Wittgren - "I like Wittgren" but gets his butt kicked every now and then
Guerrero - Has the best stuff of the non-Guzman relievers, but very inconsistent delivery
Peters - I like him but will wind up in the bullpen
Garcia - Is going to be a solid bullpen lefty
Conley - Is a reliever, nothing special
Graves - Loves his arm, but injuries have derailed him
Yamamoto - Not impressed
E. Hernandez - Not impressed
Rucinski and Cloyd - Really not impressed

Caleb Smith and Merandy Gonzalez not referenced.

I feel everyone is going to generally agree with this except higher expectations on Neidert and Yamamoto.

Regardless, I will take Richards and Pablo as # 4s, ideally Alcantara as a # 3, and hopefully they get a #4 or better out of Neidert, Gallen, and Yamamoto.

[Erick]

Hernandez has been good in August. He gets inconsistent work, but when he's been thrown in there lately, he's done a good job.

Long-term, he’s nothing special. Maybe he can be a #5 one day.

- - - - - - - - - -

Urena 1st time through: .669 OPS
Urena 2nd time through: .722 OPS
Urena 3rd time through: 901 OPS

You're right, he shouldn't be starting. Steckenrider should pitch 1+ innings depending on pitch count, and Urena pitches to the next 18 batters. #GoRays

(I generally agree with you about the scandal)

Our front office is too traditional to try such a thing.

- - - - - - - - - -

Also Miami Herald did an opposing scout on young pitchers - https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...216509395.html

TLDR

Alcantara - Love the arm, can start or relieve, needs work on secondary pitches though
Richards - #4 SP on a really good team. Changeup is great, could use a better fastball or secondary pitches
Pablo - Is going to be a non-ace starter for a long time. Did not mention him as a 3 or 4
Urena - Is a 5th SP on a good team
Neidert and Gallen - Maybe profile as starters, fringy stuff. Maybe # 4 SP

Guzman - Is going to be a reliever (Marlins think starter)
Barraclough - Middle reliever on a good team, Marlins wanted way too much at deadline
Steckenrider - Is a good middle reliever, not as good as last year though
Wittgren - "I like Wittgren" but gets his butt kicked every now and then
Guerrero - Has the best stuff of the non-Guzman relievers, but very inconsistent delivery
Peters - I like him but will wind up in the bullpen
Garcia - Is going to be a solid bullpen lefty
Conley - Is a reliever, nothing special
Graves - Loves his arm, but injuries have derailed him
Yamamoto - Not impressed
E. Hernandez - Not impressed
Rucinski and Cloyd - Really not impressed

Caleb Smith and Merandy Gonzalez not referenced.

I feel everyone is going to generally agree with this except higher expectations on Neidert and Yamamoto.

Regardless, I will take Richards and Pablo as # 4s, ideally Alcantara as a # 3, and hopefully they get a #4 or better out of Neidert, Gallen, and Yamamoto.

It’s really not an exciting article that’s for sure lol.

[lou]

Our front office is too traditional to try such a thing.

- - - - - - - - - -

It’s really not an exciting article that’s for sure lol.

Probably with Urena, but maybe Tampa does well for the rest of the year and it gives them an idea.

Also, not sure what your baseline is for progress into the future, but a critical opposing scout thinks they have three middle/backend rotation pieces (maybe better with Alcantara), plus Urena (and Straily), plus Ca. Smith who somehow was ignored, plus whatever they get out of Neidert/Gallen/Yamamoto (I think most here see Neidert as a pretty solid 3/4 type, and FG has upped him to a FV50). That's 9 starters, and they really only need 3 to work out. He thinks they have their future bullpen lefties with Conley/Garcia/Peters (not including Quijada, O'Grady, and Lee). Thinks they have a few RHP bullpen pieces with Guzman, Steckenrider, Wittgren, maybe Guerrero (didn't mention others like Merandy, Eveld, and Gallen/Yamamoto/Alcantara shifting to the pen). It's a full bullpen with upside.

Sure, they need a top end rotation piece which they don't have, but this says to me they'll have at least 11 good/solid pieces in their 2020 pitching staff - in whatever combination - combined very likely making under $10 million (that's jettisoning basically only Urena, Straily, Barraclough, and Conley). I'm not sure what is negative about that. I'm totally fine with them developing "only" a "3-4-4" and a good bullpen with what they have (ignoring Rogers/Garret/Cabrera as they are farther away). That's good? Clearly, they will need a free agent and for Rogers/Garret/E. Cabrera/etc. to break out to get over the top, but we have to review this in perspective of a full rebuild. Developing a cheap and solid "working class" core is important.

I can say, if you think they will not spend (big) in 2020/2021 in free agency, they don't have a plan that works with what they got unless some unexpected breakouts happen. If that's what's not exciting about this without a top end, I agree. It seems to me though, that's the plan as they do mention here and there in the press they are going to spend down the road.

[lou]

I feel its the slow roll to the end of the season, but Dean jacked a HR in his second game for his first hit and Ortega doesn't suck?

[rmc523]

Apparently the Indians won’t be getting Leonys Martin back...DD?

[tjfla]

Apparently the Indians won’t be getting Leonys Martin back...DD?

Don't think he got thru but would make sense

[fish16]

This season needs to end already. We've got nothing to play for except september call ups.

Get as much playing time for Brinson, Cooper, Alcantara, Anderson, Lopez, maybe a couple starts from Neidert before sending him to AAA to start next year, Richards, Steck in save situations, etc.

They held on for as long as they could but the wheels have fallen off quickly.

Also, come the offseason, im cool with dumping Straily for a place holder at a position for a few years. We missed out on his value and many others in the last year and a half or so but we just need to move on from him at the end of the year and let the young guys pitch.

One positive for the year is that Chen has miraculously held up and hopefully can at least give us around 30 starts until his contract mercifully expires rather then just wasting space in the dugout.

[Erick]

This season needs to end already. We've got nothing to play for except september call ups.

Get as much playing time for Brinson, Cooper, Alcantara, Anderson, Lopez, maybe a couple starts from Neidert before sending him to AAA to start next year, Richards, Steck in save situations, etc.

They held on for as long as they could but the wheels have fallen off quickly.

Also, come the offseason, im cool with dumping Straily for a place holder at a position for a few years. We missed out on his value and many others in the last year and a half or so but we just need to move on from him at the end of the year and let the young guys pitch.

One positive for the year is that Chen has miraculously held up and hopefully can at least give us around 30 starts until his contract mercifully expires rather then just wasting space in the dugout.

Chen is a waste of time. I wish they’d take him out of the rotation. As a matter of fact, looking at his splits, he might be decent out of the pen.