Season Super Game Thread

[tjfla]

yup, because the rockies wouldnt pay the entire contract, so we ended up paying his entire contract AND not getting a prospect for him. we really showed them.

And another thing they said was that they knew they could get steals from us based on prospects not being on baseball america lists because they knew loria read those and relied on them heavily. Im guessing thats a francis martes special.

I know-was trying to tell u guys about it LY but no one believed me. Mike Hill was trying to trade 8-10 guys to get something but he couldn't do much because teams wanted us to pay some

Exactly-he didnt believe in scouting.He want ML guys and trade anything they wanted to get them. His thought was get ML guy now and maybe the minor league guy works out but maybe he wont

[fish16]

its crazy that loria and samson couldnt see the value in spending money on player development up front and then being able to develop players and get tons of value due to the team control. striking out on IFA guys isnt the end of the world if you end up developing a few of them into good players. its unbelievable mismanagement. its no wonder this team hasnt made the playoffs since 2003.

[tjfla]

U guys gotta listen to the Mish podcast-it is NUTS

Tells story about LY Draft.

Meek wants Trevor Rogers however Delpiano and all the guys who got fired by Jeter this offseason call Jeff and tell him they want Evan White. So Jeff calls Meek to tell him to draft White the night before the draft. They take Rogers anyway however the next day NONE of the guys show up for the draft to protest

Sad thing is this is NORMAL for this team. They would fight over players and the OWNER would make the decision instead of the baseball guys

[fish16]

haha yup posted that yesterday. funny part is that the draft from last year is looking like our best in a while.

[tjfla]

haha yup posted that yesterday. funny part is that the draft from last year is looking like our best in a while.

Ya most of the stories I had heard. Like Rodney trade-FO didn't wanna give up Paddock but SD called Jeff and said this is what we want for him. He says YES and then he wanted Cashner and they talked to him only and robbed us

Cincy did same thing

Teams knew who to talk to if they wanted to rape us

[Maddawg]

The plan is definitely not to lose games and save money. If that was the plan, Bour, Dietrich, Castro, Prado, Straily, Ziegler, and especially Realmuto would be gone (nor signing Maybin). That reflects a significant portion of the team's payroll and collectively probably plays out at 10+ WAR. They certainly want to try and avoid losing 100 games (which is the real over/under, not 35 wins but you know that and just like poking this dude).

Also it's insanely premature to call Brinson a bust, and completely ignore Harrison and Diaz. The Yelich trade was my least favorite too, but it's impossible to view that one until 2 years from now. We'll see, but yes if all 3 of them bust, that is a major setback as you could have just kept Yelich which would not have been a bad idea.

As I and others said before the season, this is a wait and see until say August 15th. The last assets will be traded by then, we'll see the draft, the initial splash into maybe IFA, a year of progress from the "kids," etc. Maybe it sucks? Maybe it doesn't? Is Caleb Smith turning into a free 3rd SP right? Is Jarlin turning into a #4? Is Brian Anderson a longterm 3B/LF? Is Tayron Guerrero a legitimate backend RP?

The PR is atrocious, but I can't say on a baseball level this is a sinking ship. I can acknowledge that keeping Hill, etc., may not inspire confidence, but we just don't know how he operates without Loria's meddling (see fish16's podcast post which is interesting). It will be clearly obvious in about 3 months as a lot is going to happen. Just saying, maybe lob the bombs when there is information to back it and not hysterical comments.

I would disagree. They are tanking this season. I think they would gey rid of all of them but they aren't completely brainless and just trade, "to trade". I think they want to get the best value, but I just don't think they are capable of a championship calaber rebuild, and maybe not even a winning team rebuild.

This rebuild is a real chance for them, because if things don't go right and the major league team is at 70 or 75 wins only by 2020, they HAVE to spend money in free agency and I don't think they have the cash to do it. And if you have to start over again because you fucked this rebuild up, you better hire the best front office people you can, with proven records of winning. Right now Mike Hill has ZERO credentials as a team, roster and farm builder. Almost all of his (if they were all Loria why didn't he resign ? I would have) free agent signings have been a disaster and very EXPENSIVE.

I'm just still not convinced this rebuild is on track to build anything more than what we've always had under Loria - bad to mediocre baseball, that doesn't excite or inspire the local fans.

[gustavopim]

U guys gotta listen to the Mish podcast-it is NUTS

Tells story about LY Draft.

Meek wants Trevor Rogers however Delpiano and all the guys who got fired by Jeter this offseason call Jeff and tell him they want Evan White. So Jeff calls Meek to tell him to draft White the night before the draft. They take Rogers anyway however the next day NONE of the guys show up for the draft to protest

Sad thing is this is NORMAL for this team. They would fight over players and the OWNER would make the decision instead of the baseball guys

Didn't we trade Trevor Williams for one of these front office dudes? Now he is posting good numbers with the Pirates.

[tjfla]

its a podcast. look up the 5 reasons podcast

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also, supposedly one reason why none of our guys went to the dodgers: our front offices really dont like and dont trust each other for some reason according to mish.

Something about them trying to get Stanton for cheap by talking to his agent and then his agent telling us he won't go anywhere else. Then they tried to do the same thing on Ozuna/Yelich

Were trying to get our OF for pennies by having them tell us they would only go there

[fish16]

I would disagree. They are tanking this season. I think they would gey rid of all of them but they aren't completely brainless and just trade, "to trade". I think they want to get the best value, but I just don't think they are capable of a championship calaber rebuild, and maybe not even a winning team rebuild.

This rebuild is a real chance for them, because if things don't go right and the major league team is at 70 or 75 wins only by 2020, they HAVE to spend money in free agency and I don't think they have the cash to do it. And if you have to start over again because you fucked this rebuild up, you better hire the best front office people you can, with proven records of winning. Right now Mike Hill has ZERO credentials as a team, roster and farm builder. Almost all of his (if they were all Loria why didn't he resign ? I would have) free agent signings have been a disaster and very EXPENSIVE.

I'm just still not convinced this rebuild is on track to build anything more than what we've always had under Loria - bad to mediocre baseball, that doesn't excite or inspire the local fans.

So, what you're saying is, they are tanking and purposely trying to lose, but arent just giving up players because they still want to get good value? I.e., youre essentially agreeing with what we are saying in that they are trying to build for the future and arent just losing for the sake of losing, losing is just a consequence of the planning for the future.

And very noble of you to say you would have resigned in Mike Hill's position when you didnt actually have to make that decision and didnt actually have to give up the money he was making like he would have had he had to resign. Again, as Mish even said in the podcast, Loria took care of those guys in his front office despite his meddling. Mike hill is likely making way more money than he would likely make in another organization.

And loria wasnt "building" anything, that is the entire reason the people who are optimistic despite blowing up the team are viewing it in that light. For going on like 5-7 years now there was no plan, nothing being built towards, we were basically just running on the whims of a moron owner who thought he knew a lot more about baseball than he did. PEople are optimistic because for the first time in nearly 15 years we are finally building an entire organization with a plan and an endgame and not deviating from it based on emotion.

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Something about them trying to get Stanton for cheap by talking to his agent and then his agent telling us he won't go anywhere else. Then they tried to do the same thing on Ozuna/Yelich

Were trying to get our OF for pennies by having them tell us they would only go there

i know it would be considered tampering and they could get in trouble if they went directly to those players, but is it something that they could get in trouble for if they just did it thru the agent because their agents likely have other clients? Or is it just a dick (but honestly smart) move on the dodgers part and they were just trying to get our players at a greater value? Cause that seems like pretty aggressive tampering.

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btw the yelich stuff from that podcast really surprised me. he didnt seem like that kind of guy.

[tjfla]

Its all whatever now-TOTALLY different operation

FO is solid and not 10 decision makers. Goes thru Denbo with Mike Hill on the phone. Denbo is running the draft too.


Probably some tampering but hard to prove unless comments in public. Just easier to hang up if they ever call

[fauowls44]

Its all whatever now

FO is solid and not 10 decision makers. Goes thru Denbo with Mike Hill on the phone. Denbo is running the draft too.

Mish makes it sound like there will be even more changes this off-season with Hill possibly being replaced.

[tjfla]

Mish makes it sound like there will be even more changes this off-season with Hill possibly being replaced.

Not sure about this offseason but by 2020 Denbo will be President of Baseball Ops. Greenlee will be in Denbo's job now with Hill still in system

That was the "plan" in Oct

Denbo wants to focus on the minor leaguers for 2018 and 2019. Mike Hill on the phone all day lets him do that

[fish16]

Mish makes it sound like there will be even more changes this off-season with Hill possibly being replaced.

that would make sense, or at least an eventual progression into mike hill having a lesser role over time. gotta remember that they didnt officially acquire the team until after the year so they did have to operate on the fly a little bit and probably didnt get to do every single thing they would have liked to have done all while blowing up the team.

[Maddawg]

Very enlightening podcast, and does shed light on Loria, Samson, and especially Yelich. Very surprised about that. But the Loria draft story and the Samson trade story, just gutting to see how they operated.

Okay I take back a lot and admit I was over-reacting but I will qualify it too with, I've been following the Marlins since their 1st pitch and it's not been much fun except for two seasons. MLB also has also treated this franchise as a red-headed step child since almost the beginning, and that too needs to change.

About the attendance, maybe it is their strategy or it will be just a consequence of the circumstances, but yes Jeter will be able to claim it higher next year, just because they can't be worse and it should help, and much more community outreach will be done this season and off-season and lets see if the fans respond.

[lou]

I would disagree. They are tanking this season. I think they would gey rid of all of them but they aren't completely brainless and just trade, "to trade". I think they want to get the best value, but I just don't think they are capable of a championship calaber rebuild, and maybe not even a winning team rebuild.

This rebuild is a real chance for them, because if things don't go right and the major league team is at 70 or 75 wins only by 2020, they HAVE to spend money in free agency and I don't think they have the cash to do it. And if you have to start over again because you fucked this rebuild up, you better hire the best front office people you can, with proven records of winning. Right now Mike Hill has ZERO credentials as a team, roster and farm builder. Almost all of his (if they were all Loria why didn't he resign ? I would have) free agent signings have been a disaster and very EXPENSIVE.

I'm just still not convinced this rebuild is on track to build anything more than what we've always had under Loria - bad to mediocre baseball, that doesn't excite or inspire the local fans.

I mean could be they have no money, but that's quite a stretch as it's not like these guys are broke and can't figure things out. It's going to be hard to not run a $100 million payroll in 2021, which is likely bottom five in 2021 easily, and they have a legitimate 18+ guys penciled in at cumulatively under $36+ million in 2021 with what they have (including trade assets of 25 man roster). That gets interesting with being able to afford a superstar and multiple good solid starters/role players. They HAVE to spend free agency in any scenario? It's not like this is a purely internal rebuild.

Also, if they were tanking they would value that more then the $50 million they are paying Prado, Castro, Ziegler, Bour, Straily, Dietrich, Maybin, etc. Literally paying those guys that much money to be a 95+ loss team right now. A very sound argument can be made that trading them all for nothing brings back more value in dollars alone. Realmuto is the only real prize here. Of course they are holding them to get a better deal, but doesn't that say something where they are paying out a ton of money to try and turn them into better assets? Isn't that a good thing to value a better package over money saved?

Mike Hill was part of the front office who selected/found the best pitcher of this generation (I will go that far. He was going to be an all-timer), a NL MVP, multiple all stars and core players (Yelich, Realmuto, etc.), and plenty of solid random guys like Urena, Steckenrider, and Morrison (he panned out quite well for his draft status). It's just silly to say this guy has "ZERO" credentials. It's not like every pick is Skipworth and Kolek. That is just getting emotional about the awful roller coaster of the last 10 years.

Maybe it all sucks, they take another high school catcher in the draft, and you're right across the board. I'm not saying that isn't going to happen. I'm just saying it's fine to be skeptical but maybe just pump the brakes for 3 more months. Brinson and Harrison hit 20 bombs each (at any level), Ca. Smith turns into a # 3 SP, some dudes like Tayron and B. Anderson hold up, and they get progress from the LSAS (Lee Stone All Stars) and Meyer becomes an ACE, and your opinion is going to change very quickly.