Season Super Game Thread

[Nick]

Gotta take that PED suspension into consideration with Read, though. His numbers were ok last year at AA, I'd want to give him more time to prove his productuion doesn't fall off a cliff.

[lou]

I'd prefer McKenzie to Mejia actually. I'm just saying Mejia is the type of catching prospect we should try to get back in these trades. Bringing in Severino or Read does nothing.

I think there is some value in identifying a cheap longterm backup - obviously not a top concern but would be a great 3rd player in a deal sort of thing.

I want them to spend all of their money on (ideally) 3 major free agents if they can afford it in 2 years, so not paying a backup catcher a few million bucks will help that.

[Ralph]

The Indians traded Frazier and Justus Sheffield for Andrew Miller a few years ago. Goal has to be to try and get a similar package for Bearclaw/Steck/Conley.

[fish16]

The Indians traded Frazier and Justus Sheffield for Andrew Miller a few years ago. Goal has to be to try and get a similar package for Bearclaw/Steck/Conley.

agreed, but miller was a better and more dominant pitcher. What the yankees did that year is what every non contender should do with valuable bullpen pieces at the deadline. Crazy how well Cashman did in one of the few years they werent in contention. Got a future superstar in Gleyber and then signed chapman right back after the year and then got Sheffield and Frazier (who might be moved this deadline for a SP upgrade) for Miller. And they still have a great bullpen.

It was worth it because they won a WS finally, but the cubs kind of gave up way too much in recent years in trades. Jiminez and Cease for Quintana who is good but not great and gave up a future superstar for 2 months of chapman. The kind of move that is fine if you win a WS but terrible if you get shitty luck in a small sample size that is MLB's playoffs.

[fish16]

I'd prefer McKenzie to Mejia actually. I'm just saying Mejia is the type of catching prospect we should try to get back in these trades. Bringing in Severino or Read does nothing.

Absolutely. If i were the Indians i wouldnt ever trade mckenzie for claw but its a no brainer to make that move if they offer mckenzie. Id do it 1 for 1. But god damn id be ecstatic if we can get Nolan Jones, who is obviously more reasonable of an ask for bearclaw. Would be a perfect fit for a need in our system and would fit our contention time frame pretty well. Can be a long term replacement for Bour if we keep him until free agency which i think makes sense or maybe he can stay at 3b.

[fish16]

With 2 weeks before the deadline, I think the only guys i trade are Ziegler, Barraclough, Dietrich, and also if you can get anything for Castro/Chen/Prado/whatever other bad contract.

I'd keep Bour till free agency just cause I dont think his value on the trade market is anything special and he is going to be more valuable to us than any package we get for him on the trade market. Plus its not like the OF where we have a bunch of quality prospects coming up anytime soon. We legit might not have any MLB quality 1b in the organization prospect wise (although I really want to see what Cooper can do every day for the rest of the year.

Straily because of his injury/slight regression is a guy you hold onto until the offseason with the hope that he pitches mre like last year the rest of the year and you move him before spring next year when a lot of these SP prospects are actually ready.

JT I think im now on the side of waiting until the winter meetings and hoping we can convince him to re-sign by then and if not I think there would be a better market for his services in the offseason when half the teams arent trying to contend for the rest of the year. My opinion would be different if i had inside knowledge that Realmuto has 100% said he wont re-sign and a team is willing to give one of those A+ prospects, but he is so critical moving forward if he is willing to re-sign that I try to convince him for the rest of the year and hope to give him a slight overpay to keep the best catcher in the game long term.

Urena I keep unless I get overwhelmed. He's under team control for 3 more years and has improved dramatically each of the last 2 years and id like to see if he continues his upward trajectory.

Steck and Conley I 100% keep. Steck is our future shut down closer still super under team control and Conley i just have a horribly hard time envisioning getting anything significant. He's a guy I keep another year and see if he can become another Miller/Hand lefty style former starter turned reliever and have us get a significant haul a year from now.

[tjfla]

If a team offers a solid package for Conley I would jump on it. Yes u could hold onto him for another year or 2 but what happens if he goes back to old Adam?

Not saying this is an offer but if Boston offered this

Boston-Conley
Miami-Swihart/Chatham/Raudes or Diaz or another SP they like

How do u say no?

Swihart gives u a backup C(maybe Starter) with some potential
Chatham is a solid SS/UT prospect
Raudes OR Diaz are young SP our FO likes

U get 3 guys who could help and have Quijada/Kinley/Squier/O'Grady fighting for job in 2019

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So 2 1/2 years of Realmuto is worth more then 5 years of Yelich? I understand the desire to get a good package for JT, but come on man. JT is good, but even right now, is not worth what Yelich was preseason. This is unrealistic. I say this also in terms of the prospect ranks they got back, not the big bowl of MEH with what Brinson/Harrison/Diaz have done this year.



I agree. Before the year I think Keiboom and a lot of friends would work, but JT has taken it to another level. Based on their system, and the emergence of Soto, it's Robles or bust as far as the Nationals go.



Yep, they need to max out. They honestly have some depth. If we think about a hypothetical 2021 team:

C - ______, _______
1B - _______, Cooper/Nelson
2B - Diaz
SS - ________, Riddle
3B - Anderson
LF - Monte
CF - Brinson, Sierra/Miller/Lee
RF - ________

SP - ________, ________, Alcantara, Neidert, C. Smith
RHP - Guzman, Steckenrider, Wittgren, pick 2 Merandy/Gallen/Richards/Meyer/Yamamoto/Pablo/Whoever
LHP - Conley, pick 2 of Garcia/Quijada/Peters/O'Grady/Whoever

AAA/AA - Rogers, Garret, E. Cabrera, Devers, Scott, Osiris, Banfield, etc.

Of the above, you're into cheap arbitration years of let's say 6-8 guys, so the "penciled in" internal roster of maybe 18 guys is going to be under $35 million combined.

You have:

-Money for 2 major free agents
-Likely a centerpiece for JT
-Major IFA money in 18/19 for hopefully an elite guy ready in 2-3 years
-Top 5 draft pick 2019
-Possibility for good secondary pieces, maybe more, with Barraclough/Bour/Dietrich/Urena/Straily getting shipped out
-Break out possibilities of whoever in the minors, Devers, Dunand, Nelson, Yamamoto, etc.

I'm not saying you can count on everyone working out, of course that isn't going to happen, but strategically, they have gotten the "depth" part taken care of IMO. It's time to max out and fill out one those important blank lines with the Realmuto centerpiece (or sign him long term).

All-in on the 1 longterm top 40 or better prospect piece versus a lower quantity and upgraded 2nd and 3rd players in the deal.



Totally agree with you here bud. Depending on the team, the Marlins can attach a decent # 4 SP, a top notch back end RP, a good lefty bat, etc. and really put a cherry on top for a contender. All of them having multiple years of control so someone isn't that upset about losing "6 years of Robles" versus getting "2 1/2 years of Realmuto and 3 1/2 years of Barraclough."

I think this is what will happen end of the day when guys are inevitably traded.

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I think we can stop this narrative as Cleveland isn't trading the best or second best catcher in the minors for a reliever?

McKenzie would be pretty epic in his own right. Throw in Dietrich and get that done. They have Kluber, Carrasco, Clevinger, and I guess Bieber is pretty good for years, and Bauer and Salazar have another 2 arbitration years. Maybe the Marlins can exploit that and get lucky turning a non-JT piece into a future # 3 SP on paper.

That RF in 2021 could be Victor Victor Mesa who is 21. Seems that is who we are waiting for in the 2018 IFA season to spend our cash on. We have about 4.5 million left(rough estimate) and are just waiting till he is cleared by MLB

Still a chance with Cleveland for McKenzie but ya its looking like the price for Bearclaw is too expensive for them. They have been calling other teams looking at RP

FO actually likes Kieboom and thinks he can stick at SS. The main issue is they don't like much of the "other guys" in the talks and Kieboom alone is NOT enough. They are fine with Robles/Severino and a low level arm or 2 for JT BUT Kieboom,Crowe and 3 or 4 others doesn't do it for them. They think if they wait till the Winter Meetings they could get equal value or even a better deal from another team(HOUSTON) and get JT out of the NL East too

[lou]

That RF in 2021 could be Victor Victor Mesa who is 21. Seems that is who we are waiting for in the 2018 IFA season to spend our cash on. We have about 4.5 million left(rough estimate) and are just waiting till he is cleared by MLB

Still a chance with Cleveland for McKenzie but ya its looking like the price for Bearclaw is too expensive for them. They have been calling other teams looking at RP

FO actually likes Kieboom and thinks he can stick at SS. The main issue is they don't like much of the "other guys" in the talks and Kieboom alone is NOT enough. They are fine with Robles/Severino and a low level arm or 2 for JT BUT Kieboom,Crowe and 3 or 4 others doesn't do it for them. They think if they wait till the Winter Meetings they could get equal value or even a better deal from another team(HOUSTON) and get JT out of the NL East too

McKenzie is probably too good for him, he's a consensus top 30-60 prospect. It would be an Adrian Gonzalez type heist to get that level of prospect for him, although hey it happens because Ugeth Urbina was a thing. Shoot for the moon until July 30th!

Probably someone like Alcantara or Guzman, i.e. 75-100 range top prospects, makes more sense for him as a centerpiece (which is still a great return imo). That still slots in with Alcantara/Neidert/Caleb in the hypothetical future rotation of guys who can be # 3s or better if it's a starter, or likely an Anderson level position prospect somewhere to fill in a hole. That would be great to turn "Steve Cishek" into that.

And that's fine with Realmuto. Get what you want or keep him. He's so good right now they can wait until the offseason if need be (and he refuses a deal multiple times). He's matched his WAR in 69 games this year to what he has done the last two years in 137-141 games. That's crazy. They hold all the cards with a player who has moved from solidly above average to elite and unquestionably top 3-4 at his position in the league.

[lou]

Still think Oakland is perfect for JT/Straily. They have the perfect MLB core and system to make that move, and the Marlins should be reasonable about it and absorb LuCroy's salary (basically a push for JT/Straily) to get the exact players they want. Marlins can flip LuCroy, or just keep him to have something at catcher to close out the year.

LuCroy, Mateo/Barreto/Fowler (RF of future), Luzardo (fits in perfectly as a 2nd lefty SP candidate with Caleb), Murphy (C of future), Allen/Campos (potential SS/Rojas replacement in a few years), and 2-3 FV40 arms (bullpen candidates) outside their top 15; for JT and Straily (combined 5 years of control).

Everyone's happy. Oak still has plenty of young OF, a few FV55/45 SP left to bring up, and get an elite catcher (they can resign) and solid SP innings now for a wild card push. Marlins get 3 big time top 75 prospects and some lottery tickets. After a hypothetical Barraclough and Dietrich trade, and some free agency money, they might have the whole field figured out in 2020. Makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know why Oakland isn't being floated about. It's perfect for both of them.

[Nick]

Only thing I question is whether Oakland can actually re-sign Realmuto. They're pretty much in the same boat as us, you can never just assume that they have the ability or willingness to re-sign a player.

[tjfla]

Still think Oakland is perfect for JT/Straily. They have the perfect MLB core and system to make that move, and the Marlins should be reasonable about it and absorb LuCroy's salary (basically a push for JT/Straily) to get the exact players they want. Marlins can flip LuCroy, or just keep him to have something at catcher to close out the year.

LuCroy, Mateo/Barreto/Fowler (RF of future), Luzardo (fits in perfectly as a 2nd lefty SP candidate with Caleb), Murphy (C of future), Allen/Campos (potential SS/Rojas replacement in a few years), and 2-3 FV40 arms (bullpen candidates) outside their top 15; for JT and Straily (combined 5 years of control).

Everyone's happy. Oak still has plenty of young OF, a few FV55/45 SP left to bring up, and get an elite catcher (they can resign) and solid SP innings now for a wild card push. Marlins get 3 big time top 75 prospects and some lottery tickets. After a hypothetical Barraclough and Dietrich trade, and some free agency money, they might have the whole field figured out in 2020. Makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know why Oakland isn't being floated about. It's perfect for both of them.

100% agree with u but havent heard Oakland's name with us. I see Oakland and Houston as fits NOW or during the Winter Meetings. One positive about if they wait till the Winter Meetings is they can trade guys that were picked in 2018 draft. Oakland has ALOT of stuff we would love to have

Teams we have talked alot to and scouted are Clev/Milw/NYY/Wash/LAD. Other minor talk is Hou/LAA/Atlanta/Cubs/Boston

Who knows? Milwaukee wasn't mentioned for Yelich until deal was done. I am surprised Colorado hasn't been mentioned much for us-JT/SP/RP

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McKenzie is probably too good for him, he's a consensus top 30-60 prospect. It would be an Adrian Gonzalez type heist to get that level of prospect for him, although hey it happens because Ugeth Urbina was a thing. Shoot for the moon until July 30th!

Probably someone like Alcantara or Guzman, i.e. 75-100 range top prospects, makes more sense for him as a centerpiece (which is still a great return imo). That still slots in with Alcantara/Neidert/Caleb in the hypothetical future rotation of guys who can be # 3s or better if it's a starter, or likely an Anderson level position prospect somewhere to fill in a hole. That would be great to turn "Steve Cishek" into that.

And that's fine with Realmuto. Get what you want or keep him. He's so good right now they can wait until the offseason if need be (and he refuses a deal multiple times). He's matched his WAR in 69 games this year to what he has done the last two years in 137-141 games. That's crazy. They hold all the cards with a player who has moved from solidly above average to elite and unquestionably top 3-4 at his position in the league.

This is what they are looking for in reality. 3/4 for 1 type deal. At this point it looks like they are shooting for the moon(since RP market is always HOT and market has only few guys in it) and hoping someone bites. They thought they had Cleveland on the hook but from all the talk it seems they passed

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As soon as the Machado deal goes thru-LAD or Philly. It will become alot more clear for us. If LA gets Machado/Britton then it takes them out on Conley

Craziest thing about Machado deal is the names being mentioned for a RENTAL!!! Phillies #2 Prospect/LAD #3 and other Top 10 Prospects

[Erick]

Only thing I question is whether Oakland can actually re-sign Realmuto. They're pretty much in the same boat as us, you can never just assume that they have the ability or willingness to re-sign a player.

That shouldn’t be a big deal for them because he’s not a rental. They’ve made moves like this in the past.

[tjfla]

That shouldn’t be a big deal for them because he’s not a rental. They’ve made moves like this in the past.

This is why its so confusing that teams like Oakland/Colorado arent talking more to us. All of our guys but 3 are controllable. Both u think would be into JT/SP/RP

Might be they are waiting to make sure they are still in the race

[Erick]

So 2 1/2 years of Realmuto is worth more then 5 years of Yelich? I understand the desire to get a good package for JT, but come on man. JT is good, but even right now, is not worth what Yelich was preseason. This is unrealistic. I say this also in terms of the prospect ranks they got back, not the big bowl of MEH with what Brinson/Harrison/Diaz have done this year.

Yelich has never had a season as great as the one JT is having, especially when you consider position scarcity. JT Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball right now/probably for those next 2.5 years he's under control, and one could make a case there's quite a disparity between JT and the second best catcher.

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If you put JT on any other team right now, we're talking about him as an MVP candidate this year. But because he plays for a terrible Marlins team, nobody cares (as evidenced by the fact he's not even starting in tonight's popularity contest, which is a joke...he's clearly been better than Contreras). He's tied for 15th in all of baseball in WAR (at least based on Fangraphs metrics), and that's despite all the time he missed. He's the ONLY star catcher in baseball right now.

[lou]

Yelich has never had a season as great as the one JT is having, especially when you consider position scarcity. JT Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball right now/probably for those next 2.5 years he's under control, and one could make a case there's quite a disparity between JT and the second best catcher.

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If you put JT on any other team right now, we're talking about him as an MVP candidate this year. But because he plays for a terrible Marlins team, nobody cares (as evidenced by the fact he's not even starting in tonight's popularity contest, which is a joke...he's clearly been better than Contreras). He's tied for 15th in all of baseball in WAR (at least based on Fangraphs metrics), and that's despite all the time he missed. He's the ONLY star catcher in baseball right now.

Yelich has never had a season as great as the one JT is having, especially when you consider position scarcity. JT Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball right now/probably for those next 2.5 years he's under control, and one could make a case there's quite a disparity between JT and the second best catcher.

Yelich has a 5.3 WAR season, so I don't know what you mean there. Let's see Realmuto get there before saying Yelich has never had a season as good a Realmuto? Fangraphs projects Realmuto at 4.8, 4.9, and 4.9 for this season as of now (BABIP is high, there will be a drop off). Also this doesn't include Yelich having a 4.1 and 4.4 WAR season, two thresholds Realmuto has not gotten to yet versus his duel 3.5 WAR seasons the last two years.

JT has certainly taken it to another level, but you're really selling Yelich short here. He has been better, and has a better contract situation. JT is not at his level to expect a better overall package. Maybe he nets a better prospect then Brinson, but the 2-4th players in the deal will be downgraded. But that's OK depending on who it is. Robles would be great.

Contreras is also still a star catcher who is basically projected as 4 WAR this year, and he has been arguably struggling. JT should be over him for the ASG, but he's still a really good player and can breakout overnight.