2024 Game Thread

[Namaste]

I watched all of Burger's AB's yesterday. He's mentally locked in 100%. His body language is extremely positive. But, yeah, he took a called 3rd strike right down the heart in one AB it was pretty brutal

[Namaste]

I miss when we had Arraez and our record was 9-25.

[Nick]

I still don't know if I buy the line that "now was the right time" to deal Arraez. I feel like, you get near the deadline and there would've been more teams looking to upgrade, maybe you get 'em bidding against each other. I don't know, maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but I can't believe that was the deal they couldn't pass up, instead of waiting and seeing how the season plays out near the deadline.

[fish16]

I miss when we had Arraez and our record was 9-25.

ya man, it's definitely been better due to arraez being gone and not the fact that the pitching has been much better and more consistent. We've had 4 shutouts in 8 days. Since he's left, we've had games scoring 1, 1, 3, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, and 1 run. This lineup fucking sucks. This team is nowhere close. We do not have a single long term piece in the entire system currently. We have nothing whatsoever at C, 1b, 2b, SS, LF, RF, or DH.You know how sad your hitters have to be to start trying to talk up Brujan, Lopez, and DLC for the 40th time as if something is changed. Even our supposed star Jazz, who they will 100% trade along with Bell, Luzardo, and Scott by the deadline, is a platoon player who can't hit lefties. It would be a pretty impressive feat to start losing games while giving up no runs.

[lou]

I still don't know if I buy the line that "now was the right time" to deal Arraez. I feel like, you get near the deadline and there would've been more teams looking to upgrade, maybe you get 'em bidding against each other. I don't know, maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but I can't believe that was the deal they couldn't pass up, instead of waiting and seeing how the season plays out near the deadline.

They love D. Head. It's just that simple. They likely internally value him as a top 75+ range prospect and believe in the tools/cold weather breakout/youth/etc. They think this is a steal with them throwing in the dollars you know. I'm not saying they are right, I'm saying they think they are smarter than everyone and it's above a 0% chance they are right. Keith Law always drills the Marlins and even he said this one is OK which I find interesting. If I scan around baseball, the Red Sox likely are the next best fit. If they got Bleis and Yorke instead, is it really any better on paper? Bleis is rated a bit more but it's probably the same ultimately with a tools oriented OF projection. Head is probably better than anything they would get from KC for a centerpiece which was the other rumored team involved. Not sure who else would really give a package for him.

I think Arrarez defense cratering further was a big concern for them. He does have off months and then goes on tears (like now) so I don't think anyone in baseball questions the bat. The only way he'd be more valuable to me is if he pops off 4-5 HR quickly and suggests his Sep. power surge is more real and April was an off month. i.e., he's going to be a .900+ OPS DH and not who he is. The extra time of getting him in May is likely more than whatever improvements might happen is what I would say. Extra 50+ games is a lot. I question the return only, not the timing FWIW. But we're going to have to wait 2 years minimum to see what is happening here.

I'd also say get rid of Luzardo, Scott, and Bell (hitting again!) as fast as possible at this stage.

[lou]

I watched all of Burger's AB's yesterday. He's mentally locked in 100%. His body language is extremely positive. But, yeah, he took a called 3rd strike right down the heart in one AB it was pretty brutal

::Whispers very quietly, you deflect a super 2 sending him down 15 days and that's probably $1.5-2+ million::

[fish16]

::Whispers very quietly, you deflect a super 2 sending him down 15 days and that's probably $1.5-2+ million::

thank god. I've been worried about bruce spending too much money. happy to know there is a way for him to spend even less money.

[fish16]

They love D. Head. It's just that simple. They likely internally value him as a top 75+ range prospect and believe in the tools/cold weather breakout/youth/etc. They think this is a steal with them throwing in the dollars you know. I'm not saying they are right, I'm saying they think they are smarter than everyone and it's above a 0% chance they are right. Keith Law always drills the Marlins and even he said this one is OK which I find interesting. If I scan around baseball, the Red Sox likely are the next best fit. If they got Bleis and Yorke instead, is it really any better on paper? Bleis is rated a bit more but it's probably the same ultimately with a tools oriented OF projection. Head is probably better than anything they would get from KC for a centerpiece which was the other rumored team involved. Not sure who else would really give a package for him.

I think Arrarez defense cratering further was a big concern for them. He does have off months and then goes on tears (like now) so I don't think anyone in baseball questions the bat. The only way he'd be more valuable to me is if he pops off 4-5 HR quickly and suggests his Sep. power surge is more real and April was an off month. i.e., he's going to be a .900+ OPS DH and not who he is. The extra time of getting him in May is likely more than whatever improvements might happen is what I would say. Extra 50+ games is a lot. I question the return only, not the timing FWIW. But we're going to have to wait 2 years minimum to see what is happening here.

I'd also say get rid of Luzardo, Scott, and Bell (hitting again!) as fast as possible at this stage.

the focusing on what he does not do well as opposed to what he does at an elite level is exhausting. This is obviously taking it to an extreme, but it's like focusing on Tom Brady's lack of mobility as a QB. We have no hitters. IF he is going to be a below average 2b and still lead the league in hitting every year and be an on base machine, that is still by far the best hitter we have. I feel like we're in the scene in moneyball where the old scouts focus on what he cant do as opposed to what he can do, which is get on base. It's not exactly new that he isnt a great defender. He wasnt a great defender either of the last 2 years either and still put up a 2.8 WAR and a 3.5 WAR. If you look for the perfect player and focus on what guys do poorly and trading them because of that, you're going to consistently have a terrible lineup.

And the funniest part is that you continue to argue out of one side of your mouth that he isnt that valuable because his defense at second isnt good and he is likely a DH at some point in the future, while at the same time saying signing him to an extension at this point would be too expensive in an era where teams are getting much more reluctant to spend in free agency. There was 0 excuse why this team could not sign him to an extension in the next 2 years. Especially for a team with a great pitching window that will now get wasted once again because we have no impact hitters whatsoever compared to the actual contenders in this league.

Obviously small sample, but his .6 WAR in just 16 games with the padres is a 6.0 WAR pace over 162, all while he is still grading negatively defensively. Because, again, he is an elite hitter. There is no comp for him in todays game.

[lou]

the focusing on what he does not do well as opposed to what he does at an elite level is exhausting. This is obviously taking it to an extreme, but it's like focusing on Tom Brady's lack of mobility as a QB. We have no hitters. IF he is going to be a below average 2b and still lead the league in hitting every year and be an on base machine, that is still by far the best hitter we have. I feel like we're in the scene in moneyball where the old scouts focus on what he cant do as opposed to what he can do, which is get on base. It's not exactly new that he isnt a great defender. He wasnt a great defender either of the last 2 years either and still put up a 2.8 WAR and a 3.5 WAR. If you look for the perfect player and focus on what guys do poorly and trading them because of that, you're going to consistently have a terrible lineup.

And the funniest part is that you continue to argue out of one side of your mouth that he isnt that valuable because his defense at second isnt good and he is likely a DH at some point in the future, while at the same time saying signing him to an extension at this point would be too expensive in an era where teams are getting much more reluctant to spend in free agency. There was 0 excuse why this team could not sign him to an extension in the next 2 years. Especially for a team with a great pitching window that will now get wasted once again because we have no impact hitters whatsoever compared to the actual contenders in this league.

Obviously small sample, but his .6 WAR in just 16 games with the padres is a 6.0 WAR pace over 162, all while he is still grading negatively defensively. Because, again, he is an elite hitter. There is no comp for him in todays game.

I hate to break it to you, but you are the old scout in your moneyball analysis focusing on 1 trait of a player versus the entire enchilada, which is he is a 2-2.5 WAR player at DH and regardless of how a player gets to that level, can you replace that production? You know, how Billy Beane got rid of 3 players and then demanded they find 3 players whose OBP averaged into what they lost? Have you read moneyball or just watched it on TBS with commercials? Arraez is EXACTLY the player Beane would move to take advantage of name value understanding you can make up the production with a defender. To also note, his defense is worse than the last 2 years so all your points fail here in the first paragraph. And yes, Arraez is not taking a discount in an arbitration buyout when he is 1.5 years from free agency. He's not taking a 5/$75m extension and having a lower AAV like he would if they extended him -day 1- which they should have and Kim fucked up there big time. The extra $20-30m they would have to spend here over years and then having him older is really valuable which you still fail on understanding. Absent them running $140-150m payrolls, this is not a good deal for this team. And if you aren't aware, Bruce is not going to spend that much money on payroll. He would get a $100m+ dollar extension today like Bryan Reynolds (even if over many years like Reynolds) as there is a cost involved with forsaking free agency. What you are doing is assuming the 2025-2026 FA market will be bad like it was for Chapman and Montgomery, so Arraez should just accept that as a fact now and give a discount on a deal to sign an extension. That is not a thing. There is a price tied to the unknown. Ultimately, what is talking out of both sides of your mouth is railing that a cheap owner/payroll constraints needs to be efficient in every move and they have to consolidate young cheap club controlled talent to win, and then say lets not efficiently sign a guy to an extension after he had his current peak year and closer to free agency because the bats on the team are bad. The only thing I am gathering from this rather gem of a post is you must be an amazing lawyer, because I could never be this confidently wrong about anything.

[lou]

ya man, it's definitely been better due to arraez being gone and not the fact that the pitching has been much better and more consistent. We've had 4 shutouts in 8 days. Since he's left, we've had games scoring 1, 1, 3, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, and 1 run. This lineup fucking sucks. This team is nowhere close. We do not have a single long term piece in the entire system currently. We have nothing whatsoever at C, 1b, 2b, SS, LF, RF, or DH.You know how sad your hitters have to be to start trying to talk up Brujan, Lopez, and DLC for the 40th time as if something is changed. Even our supposed star Jazz, who they will 100% trade along with Bell, Luzardo, and Scott by the deadline, is a platoon player who can't hit lefties. It would be a pretty impressive feat to start losing games while giving up no runs.

Why don't you crawl under a rock with Maddawg then?

Regardless to address substance, yes the lineup sucks. No one disagrees. Trading Jazz would be interesting and clearly circling 2026. Say what you will about him, but he's on a 3+ WAR pace so he's great. Better than Arraez, cheaper, and more control. A real building block, strikeouts be damned. Health is the only issue. They should genuinely sign him.

They also might be developing an internal club controlled bench for cheap with Otto, Brujan, and DLC which to be frank, is important to keep costs down. You also loved Burger, but I guess you don't anymore because of a bad SSS. Like you stopped loving Luzardo 20 innings into this season, but is he better again? Because nothing changed with him as players go through sample size fluctuations and their value is tied to their control years so nothing is majorly changing there with some likely whatever down turns. Does Julio Rodriguez suck right now? Like how you shut up about Arraez when he was scuffling, but oh he's hot again so let's point that out because I enjoy talking shit as I have nothing else to do in my pity party. Just give it a rest. The only sad thing here is being a message board troll.

They will need 5 bats this offseason (6 if Jazz is moved, 7 if Burger is moved), and that's minimum 3-5 starters and at least 1 strong side platoon of those 5-7 guys. That's -a lot- of major needs for sure, but if they do move Luzardo, Scott, Bell, and sure we'll say Jazz as you seem to bring that up a lot, that will very quickly get 3-4 of those bats and payroll will be $60m needing 2-3 players on paper. Remember, the entire staff is filled out already without Luzardo so....... how do I end all posts? All roads lead to Bruce. They spend $100-110m, we'll probably like the team on paper. If he doesn't, I think we can all shut it down. I'll be here with Namaste until year 2 of the Bruce/Bendorx plan is a tear down or a reset. Because it can be a reset if they want it to be, assuming no more major SP injuries. If it's not a reset, I think we'll all be done here until Bruce sells. It's just that easy.

[fish16]

I hate to break it to you, but you are the old scout in your moneyball analysis focusing on 1 trait of a player versus the entire enchilada, which is he is a 2-2.5 WAR player at DH and regardless of how a player gets to that level, can you replace that production? You know, how Billy Beane got rid of 3 players and then demanded they find 3 players whose OBP averaged into what they lost? Have you read moneyball or just watched it on TBS with commercials? Arraez is EXACTLY the player Beane would move to take advantage of name value understanding you can make up the production with a defender. To also note, his defense is worse than the last 2 years so all your points fail here in the first paragraph. And yes, Arraez is not taking a discount in an arbitration buyout when he is 1.5 years from free agency. He's not taking a 5/$75m extension and having a lower AAV like he would if they extended him -day 1- which they should have and Kim fucked up there big time. The extra $20-30m they would have to spend here over years and then having him older is really valuable which you still fail on understanding. Absent them running $140-150m payrolls, this is not a good deal for this team. And if you aren't aware, Bruce is not going to spend that much money on payroll. He would get a $100m+ dollar extension today like Bryan Reynolds (even if over many years like Reynolds) as there is a cost involved with forsaking free agency. What you are doing is assuming the 2025-2026 FA market will be bad like it was for Chapman and Montgomery, so Arraez should just accept that as a fact now and give a discount on a deal to sign an extension. That is not a thing. There is a price tied to the unknown. Ultimately, what is talking out of both sides of your mouth is railing that a cheap owner/payroll constraints needs to be efficient in every move and they have to consolidate young cheap club controlled talent to win, and then say lets not efficiently sign a guy to an extension after he had his current peak year and closer to free agency because the bats on the team are bad. The only thing I am gathering from this rather gem of a post is you must be an amazing lawyer, because I could never be this confidently wrong about anything.

Awesome, idc what he is at DH, he is a 2.5-3.5 WAR player at 2b, he is 27, and he has the best plate discipline in baseball. Every single projection for the rest of the season on fangraphs would still put him at a 3 WAR player despite the slower start and the subpar defense. He is a really good player on a team with 0 hitting and no long term contracts of significance. There is 0 excuse for why they couldnt come to an agreement. You say he wouldnt take it. Again, THEY DID NOT TRY. He is not going to get a big enough contract where it made sense to trade him for 3 non top prospects who wont make an impact at all in the window that this pitching could have given us. It is a nonsensical, loser move for a nonsensical loser franchise.

We can disagree on the exact price point and we will see what he ends up getting, but to say that 20-30 million over 5 years puts it over the top is just such garbage. If that amount of money for a team with almost nothing in long term salaries breaks the bank, the franchise should fold. That is pathetic. 6 million a year is not a significant amount of money to trade your best player for 3 non impact prospects, the best of which is nowhere near the major leagues, when you have a window with the pitching that they could have worked with.

You say there is a price tied to the unknown, but there is also a ton of value in getting locked in on a contract at a known price as opposed to waiting another year and a half where god knows what can happen to him or his production. Kind of like how most teams are now getting in early on signing up their young guys and their young guys being ok with it because they weigh the pros and cons of an inherently unpredictable sport. You continue to make these large sweeping generalizations about the situation without ever acknowledging that they made 0 effort to even try to sign him. 0. So while you continue to make the same posts over and over and over with some serious smugness despite being consistently wrong and never ever looking back to acknowledge how consistently wrong you are, you have no idea what the fuck he will take because the marlins made 0 effort to sign him, because they are not a serious franchise whose priority is winning, and fans are done with that shit.

If they at least made an effort and he says no, i want 8 years 140 million, sure it makes sense to trade him. But they never made an attempt.

[fish16]

Why don't you crawl under a rock with Maddawg then?

Regardless to address substance, yes the lineup sucks. No one disagrees. Trading Jazz would be interesting and clearly circling 2026. Say what you will about him, but he's on a 3+ WAR pace so he's great. Better than Arraez, cheaper, and more control. A real building block, strikeouts be damned. Health is the only issue. They should genuinely sign him.

They also might be developing an internal club controlled bench for cheap with Otto, Brujan, and DLC which to be frank, is important to keep costs down. You also loved Burger, but I guess you don't anymore because of a bad SSS. Like you stopped loving Luzardo 20 innings into this season, but is he better again? Because nothing changed with him as players go through sample size fluctuations and their value is tied to their control years so nothing is majorly changing there with some likely whatever down turns. Does Julio Rodriguez suck right now? Like how you shut up about Arraez when he was scuffling, but oh he's hot again so let's point that out because I enjoy talking shit as I have nothing else to do in my pity party. Just give it a rest. The only sad thing here is being a message board troll.

They will need 5 bats this offseason (6 if Jazz is moved, 7 if Burger is moved), and that's minimum 3-5 starters and at least 1 strong side platoon of those 5-7 guys. That's -a lot- of major needs for sure, but if they do move Luzardo, Scott, Bell, and sure we'll say Jazz as you seem to bring that up a lot, that will very quickly get 3-4 of those bats and payroll will be $60m needing 2-3 players on paper. Remember, the entire staff is filled out already without Luzardo so....... how do I end all posts? All roads lead to Bruce. They spend $100-110m, we'll probably like the team on paper. If he doesn't, I think we can all shut it down. I'll be here with Namaste until year 2 of the Bruce/Bendorx plan is a tear down or a reset. Because it can be a reset if they want it to be, assuming no more major SP injuries. If it's not a reset, I think we'll all be done here until Bruce sells. It's just that easy.

I'm not going to crawl under a rock because you want to delude yourself into thinking this team has any kind of coherent plan other than waste another few years "rebuilding" and trying to win at the lowest possible payroll level. It is so fucking obvious no matter what they do you are going to ignore reality and type out a long plan about how if they do A-Z, they could possibly contend next year, which never happens, and then you do the same thing the next year.

And if you think any kind of business will be successful in the future by doing the bare minimum year in and year out and saving up the money for a future payroll that they have no intention of actually spending, you're a fucking clown. It's going to be the same thing it has been since loria got here. The fans will refuse to support it, then the owner will say the attendance does not justify a higher payroll, the fans will get mad and continue to refuse to support it, and around and around we go. You will continue to do what you have done for years and try to delude yourself into thinking that there is any plan in the future for a higher payroll, which there isnt. And fans are done with that bullshit. You just havent realized it yet. They needed an owner with big pockets to support an initial loss in the hopes of developing a better more trusting fanbase that will lead to a team that can consistently support a higher payroll.

You seem to be the only person to not realize they have circled 2026 at the very earliest. More likely, they are circling 2027 based on every move they have made since Bendix got here.

He is not better than arraez. Health is not the only issue. It is an enormous issue though. He has played 100 games one time. He is less than 10 months younger than arraez, he has a career .308 OBP, is a platoon guy because if you actually watched games instead of solely relying on fangraphs to develop your opinion you'd realize he puts up some of the worst AB's you will ever see against lefties, and is a negative defensively in CF according to fangraphs this year. He is a career 105 WRC+ while Arraez is a 124 WRC+, with peaks the last 3 years of 131, 132, and 128, all while being reliable enough to stay healthy consistently.

At no point did i ever stop liking Burger, but making a good trade in getting burger for Eder doesnt make Burger any kind of significant building block. That's the issue with you, it is very clear that not only do you not seem to actually watch marlins games, i dont think you watch any other games and see what other teams trot out there in comparison to us. Burger is a decent enough player, cheap and under control, but he is not great defensively, has a low OBP, and strikes out a ton. It's not exactly the most noteworthy skill set. He is not someone you deal because we have 0 replacements, but he is not this impressive building block at all if you actually compare it to the contenders that you are going up against.

To say "they will need 5 bats this offseason" while also not admitting they are very clearly not trying to win next year is a fucking joke. Even if they do well in the luzardo trade, the vast majority of young players dont make significant impacts right away. You continue to think that names on paper = production, when the vast majority of young players take a number of years to develop into impact major league players. Even the top prospects in baseball have had significant struggles right away over the last few years.

This is a team that will not come close to competing until at least 2027. Especially because they have made it pretty clear in their words and actions that jazz is going to be out of here by the deadline along with Luzardo, Scott, and Bell. Worrying about a cheap future bench when you do not have a single long term position player is not even worthy of a discussion. I'm not even sure what you're referring to about Arraez scuffling and me not talking about it? I havent really talked about anything this team has done most of the year because i dont give a shit about the daily ups and downs of a loser franchise 20 games under ,500 less than two months into the season.

[lou]

I'm not going to crawl under a rock because you want to delude yourself into thinking this team has any kind of coherent plan other than waste another few years "rebuilding" and trying to win at the lowest possible payroll level. It is so fucking obvious no matter what they do you are going to ignore reality and type out a long plan about how if they do A-Z, they could possibly contend next year, which never happens, and then you do the same thing the next year.

And if you think any kind of business will be successful in the future by doing the bare minimum year in and year out and saving up the money for a future payroll that they have no intention of actually spending, you're a fucking clown. It's going to be the same thing it has been since loria got here. The fans will refuse to support it, then the owner will say the attendance does not justify a higher payroll, the fans will get mad and continue to refuse to support it, and around and around we go. You will continue to do what you have done for years and try to delude yourself into thinking that there is any plan in the future for a higher payroll, which there isnt. And fans are done with that bullshit. You just havent realized it yet. They needed an owner with big pockets to support an initial loss in the hopes of developing a better more trusting fanbase that will lead to a team that can consistently support a higher payroll.

You seem to be the only person to not realize they have circled 2026 at the very earliest. More likely, they are circling 2027 based on every move they have made since Bendix got here.

He is not better than arraez. Health is not the only issue. It is an enormous issue though. He has played 100 games one time. He is less than 10 months younger than arraez, he has a career .308 OBP, is a platoon guy because if you actually watched games instead of solely relying on fangraphs to develop your opinion you'd realize he puts up some of the worst AB's you will ever see against lefties, and is a negative defensively in CF according to fangraphs this year. He is a career 105 WRC+ while Arraez is a 124 WRC+, with peaks the last 3 years of 131, 132, and 128, all while being reliable enough to stay healthy consistently.

At no point did i ever stop liking Burger, but making a good trade in getting burger for Eder doesnt make Burger any kind of significant building block. That's the issue with you, it is very clear that not only do you not seem to actually watch marlins games, i dont think you watch any other games and see what other teams trot out there in comparison to us. Burger is a decent enough player, cheap and under control, but he is not great defensively, has a low OBP, and strikes out a ton. It's not exactly the most noteworthy skill set. He is not someone you deal because we have 0 replacements, but he is not this impressive building block at all if you actually compare it to the contenders that you are going up against.

To say "they will need 5 bats this offseason" while also not admitting they are very clearly not trying to win next year is a fucking joke. Even if they do well in the luzardo trade, the vast majority of young players dont make significant impacts right away. You continue to think that names on paper = production, when the vast majority of young players take a number of years to develop into impact major league players. Even the top prospects in baseball have had significant struggles right away over the last few years.

This is a team that will not come close to competing until at least 2027. Especially because they have made it pretty clear in their words and actions that jazz is going to be out of here by the deadline along with Luzardo, Scott, and Bell. Worrying about a cheap future bench when you do not have a single long term position player is not even worthy of a discussion. I'm not even sure what you're referring to about Arraez scuffling and me not talking about it? I havent really talked about anything this team has done most of the year because i dont give a shit about the daily ups and downs of a loser franchise 20 games under ,500 less than two months into the season.

First, I guess I am not the only one who writes 9 paragraph soliloquies eh? This is a lot of content for someone who is never posting again and doesn't care!

Second, I have no idea what their plan is, so your deluding comments are wrong.

Third, I don't disagree with you have have little to no expectation about Bruce spending money? I've been on the Bruce selling bandwagon -much longer- than you whether you realize that or not.

Fourth, I understand the fans are done with this owner, as they genuinely should be after a terrible offseason you said was OK where all of us here were rolling our eyes at you. So your comment about not realizing what means nothing more than you are yelling into the air at this point?

Fifth, Jazz is a 3.12 WAR per 600 PA player for his career. Arraez is 2.69 WAR per 600 PA. Since the start of 2022, i.e. when Arraez ticked up, Arraez is 2.91. This year Jazz is a 1.2 WAR and Arraez .7. So Jazz is better. Health is the only issue here. Maybe you should not be an old timer moneyball scout and just look at 1 piece of what Arraez does and look at the full picture.

Sixth, Burger is a building block. He is a decent enough player, cheap, and under control. You nailed it. That's what this team needs. It has Jazz, and can fill out the bottom of the roster with decent enough players, who are cheap, and under control. They obviously need to upper half of the roster, but don't kid yourself that filling out the bottom of the roster with good club controlled players isn't very helpful in the world the ENTIRE STAFF is figured out. That's the issue with you, it is very clear that you are emotionally charged after years of predicting 88 wins and then not realizing the team has 20+ spots figured out, but yes the last ones are -very- important.

Seventh, again, I have no idea what their plan is for 2025. But I am glad you are confident they are going to tear down further than Luzardo/Scott. Why are you angry at me here again about not being nostradamus? We all don't have to take black and white stances in life and everything is not an argument as your youth hasn't taught you yet. My gut is they probably won't do much more than Luzardo/Scott/FA guys trade wise, but then likely not spend to where they need to go and try and get lucky into contention. A tear down, i.e. trading Sandy, would be surprising to me. Saying they will be bad until 2027 is simply being dramatic with this pitching they have. You are dissapointed by the team opening 0-11 and otherwise sucking and this is a knee jerk reaction. The same way it was a knee jerk reaction predicting 88 wins and getting excited Brinson was arriving those 3 weeks he was hitting. Maybe they tear it all down, but they have the ability - in house - to have a top 5-10 pitching staff next year and spending less money on all 13 guys then Blake Snell. That alone is very suggestive to me this isn't a full rebuild. But we shall see. Maybe stop taking anger pills? Why are you such a troll and so god damn angry about any of this?

[fish16]

Jazz already has more strikeouts this year in 210 PA's (50) as Arraez has the last 2 years combined (47 k's) over 780 PA's

[Nick]

Arraez is gone, let's move on.