2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

Have to think Castano or Hoeing, both pitched last Saturday.

IDK how you can do that in a playoff chase instead of just lining up Eury to pitch like a major league organization should. He was scheduled to pitch the same day as Cabrera and they pushed him back a day and now he isnt available. That's an automatic loss against that lineup with those 2 pitching.

[Nick]

This'll be a real test for Cueto today. Dude was giving up a ton of Bombs in his rehab games, if he's able to keep this lineup in the ballpark today, I'd feel a lot more comfortable moving forward with him in the rotation.

[lou]

If that were the case, you think he would've been traded at the deadline.

My take, I think they like him, but 1. have an aversion to giving young guys meaningful playing time in the middle of a playoff race, they feel guys like Hampson, Jonathan Davis and Wendle are safer bets. 2. Don't want to lose a guy like Wendle to give a guy like Edwards a shot. We've seen how they hold onto guys until they absolutely give them no choice but to release them.

I think it is the defense and they don't trust him in CF as where else could he play consistently with their current guys? To add, MLB updated their own top prospect lists post deadline - https://www.mlb.com/prospects/marlins

In order:

55 - Meyer (55)
50 (very generous of MLB here) - Berry, Fulton, Mack, Cappe, Miller
45 - Amaya, GROSHANS, Sixto, EDWARDS, Mesa Jr., Lewis, Millbrandt, Dane, Gerardo, Peguero
40 - Many guys, highlighted by 40 man potentials of Johnston, Monteverde, Banfield, and Maldonado

They have GROSHANS ahead of EDWARDS, despite both of them likely being in the same toss up tier

I'm not sure who puts this list together but since it is MLB I feel they get some input from the teams. Groshans has the frame projection, "looks the part," a good BB/K rate, and should be slick fielding wherever he ends up as an athletic ex-SS, but it is hard to overlook the contact ability of Edwards right now versus the really weak contact Groshans is making. How can one think Groshans will ever make it right now and that's better than Edwards? FG didn't even put Groshans in their top 30. But, are we able to glean here that they just don't think Edwards is going to hit much and isn't a good defender so ultimately, a pure frame projection in Groshans is better than the flashy stats for a singles hitter? I don't know, but that is sad AF for the entire farm if so. But I find Edwards in a midseason update with what is going on puzzling. He has to be atrocious defensively to be that low as there cannot be any confidence in Groshans. Or maybe MLB pipeline is that terrible.

Ultimately, Edwards has 2 more option years, so there is really no rush here if he needs defensive work. They all of a sudden have a pretty good "B" team with Banfield, Johnston, Edwards, Amaya, Groshans, Burdick, Mesa Jr., and Myers, who all should be on the 40 man next year, so I think this will work itself out and his time will come.

[fish16]

i dont know how you could put edwards and groshans in the same tier with a straight face. Same with Sixto. Groshans stinks.

[Nick]

I think it is the defense and they don't trust him in CF as where else could he play consistently with their current guys?

I just don't see how this could be possible considering the guys we've put out there in CF this year. Really Jonathan Davis is the only natural CF we've played out there. FanGraphs write-up indicated early returns on him learning CF were positive. So basically exactly what would be said about Jazz without injuring himself like Jazz did. If you were to bring him up he would be taking ABs away from your Corner OF trio of DLC/Sanchez/Garcia. There would be many ways you could do this, 2nd Base, move Arraez to 1st, Bell to DH, Soler to Corner OF. 3rd Base, Move Burger to 1st and do the same with Bell and Soler. Or just have him play Corner OF.

[lou]

i dont know how you could put edwards and groshans in the same tier with a straight face. Same with Sixto. Groshans stinks.

It's perplexing. So as said, is the organization throwing them that (and are insane) or is MLB bad/lazy. Edwards has gotta be atrocious defensively and they must think he will only hit around a .700 OPS at best. If that's the case, he isn't impacting anything versus Wendle, Garcia, or Yuli on the roster (as he could replace any of them TBH) so it's a nothing burger. This isn't making/breaking the season.

Also I don't think this is a consideration for this type of player, but if they also keep him down until May 2024, they do get a year of service time and control him through 2030. That takes him through his age 30 season. Perhaps this is a consideration. If they really believe in him longterm, but don't think he will do much right now, this might be a factor. Look who we are talking about here. Guys don't end up with 118 and 168 service days on the regular on accident.

[lou]

I just don't see how this could be possible considering the guys we've put out there in CF this year. Really Jonathan Davis is the only natural CF we've played out there. FanGraphs write-up indicated early returns on him learning CF were positive. So basically exactly what would be said about Jazz without injuring himself like Jazz did. If you were to bring him up he would be taking ABs away from your Corner OF trio of DLC/Sanchez/Garcia. There would be many ways you could do this, 2nd Base, move Arraez to 1st, Bell to DH, Soler to Corner OF. 3rd Base, Move Burger to 1st and do the same with Bell and Soler. Or just have him play Corner OF.

No idea. The BB/K is such a large sample now showcasing he is ready, there just has to be something else holding him back. Defense? Financial? Just will not hit for power so he's a AAAA player? They are telling us they think Garcia and Yuli are better than him effectively as that is practically who he'd replace.

Rosters expand in 4 weeks also, maybe they want everyday AB until then and as much defensive game work he can get.

[Nick]

No idea. The BB/K is such a large sample now showcasing he is ready, there just has to be something else holding him back. Defense? Financial? Just will not hit for power so he's a AAAA player? They are telling us they think Garcia and Yuli are better than him effectively as that is practically who he'd replace.

Rosters expand in 4 weeks also, maybe they want everyday AB until then and as much defensive game work he can get.

I think it's organizational strategy, and has less to do with what they think of Edwards, I honestly do. I don't think Myers gets that extended run if Davis doesn't get hurt, clearly they were forced to call up Eury earlier than they wanted to. Hold on to your assets secure club control as long as you can, and honestly they've been burned by pretty much every hitting prospect they've brought up during they Sherman era, except for I guess Jazz and Fortes, but neither of those guys are ringing successes either, I think they're gunshy at this point about putting any meaningful responsibility on an up and coming prospect, especially in a playoff race.

[lou]

I think it's organizational strategy, and has less to do with what they think of Edwards, I honestly do. I don't think Myers gets that extended run if Davis doesn't get hurt, clearly they were forced to call up Eury earlier than they wanted to. Hold on to your assets secure club control as long as you can, and honestly they've been burned by pretty much every hitting prospect they've brought up during they Sherman era, except for I guess Jazz and Fortes, but neither of those guys are ring successes either, I think they're gunshy at this point about putting any meaningful responsibility on an up and coming prospect, especially in a playoff race.

That is all fair. And frankly, we are talking about the 12th/13th guy on the bench who might get 10 PA a week. There is not a lot of needle moving going on here for that spot as they aren't going to not play Bell, Arraez, Berti, Burger, Jazz, Sanchez, Soler, and DLC too often. Garcia and Yuli swap in for some lefties for Jazz and Sanchez, and Wendle gets Berti a breather. That's it. It'll be interesting to see who they call up though if anyone gets hurt. Unless it is Berti or Wendle (because SS), it should probably be Edwards.

[fish16]

No idea. The BB/K is such a large sample now showcasing he is ready, there just has to be something else holding him back. Defense? Financial? Just will not hit for power so he's a AAAA player? They are telling us they think Garcia and Yuli are better than him effectively as that is practically who he'd replace.

Rosters expand in 4 weeks also, maybe they want everyday AB until then and as much defensive game work he can get.

oh it's financial, but it's not edwards finances, its wendle's. They refuse to acknowledge a sunk cost

[fish16]

That is all fair. And frankly, we are talking about the 12th/13th guy on the bench who might get 10 PA a week. There is not a lot of needle moving going on here for that spot as they aren't going to not play Bell, Arraez, Berti, Burger, Jazz, Sanchez, Soler, and DLC too often. Garcia and Yuli swap in for some lefties for Jazz and Sanchez, and Wendle gets Berti a breather. That's it. It'll be interesting to see who they call up though if anyone gets hurt. Unless it is Berti or Wendle (because SS), it should probably be Edwards.

i get what you're saying, but i hate the "not a needle mover" argument. Incremental improvement is still improvement. Wendle just flat out can not hit. He is fairly pedestrian defensively. He wont kill you but he's not exactly making any spectacular plays from what i watch. He is a black hole in the lineup and he is getting to Stallings level bad offensively with weak contact and grounder after grounder. At least throw some young talent in edwards out there and see if he can add a different dimension with his lack of k's and stolen base ability and ability to just make contact. Maybe he isnt ready but the alternative is just not a good player and his presence in the lineup is killing us every time he starts. The worst outcome is what, that edwards cant hit? Neither can wendle. Id just like to see them give some of these young guys chances to make an impact when the alternative has 0 ceiling and a rock bottom floor.

[fish16]

wendle starting yet again today. Not sure where lou was getting the idea of him only starting 2 times a week now, but they have started him almost every single game since the all star break. Berti should be the every day SS.

[lou]

i get what you're saying, but i hate the "not a needle mover" argument. Incremental improvement is still improvement. Wendle just flat out can not hit. He is fairly pedestrian defensively. He wont kill you but he's not exactly making any spectacular plays from what i watch. He is a black hole in the lineup and he is getting to Stallings level bad offensively with weak contact and grounder after grounder. At least throw some young talent in edwards out there and see if he can add a different dimension with his lack of k's and stolen base ability and ability to just make contact. Maybe he isnt ready but the alternative is just not a good player and his presence in the lineup is killing us every time he starts. The worst outcome is what, that edwards cant hit? Neither can wendle. Id just like to see them give some of these young guys chances to make an impact when the alternative has 0 ceiling and a rock bottom floor.

You can't only have Berti on the roster as a SS. It's Wendle or Hampson. And yes, we know you want Hampson. I think it doesn't matter here TBH.

Edwards would be a Garcia, Yuli, or DLC(who has an option) replacement. I can't say he is better than them, but it is hard to say as upside is extremely limited here.

[fish16]

You can't only have Berti on the roster as a SS. It's Wendle or Hampson. And yes, we know you want Hampson. I think it doesn't matter here TBH.

Edwards would be a Garcia, Yuli, or DLC(who has an option) replacement. I can't say he is better than them, but it is hard to say as upside is extremely limited here.

Edwards can play SS. He might not be the best SS defensively, but he has plenty of experience. That's just not true. Wendle brings nothing.

[fish16]

We have 6 different guys with at least 10 homers this year in the lineup today. That's a big change