2023 Game Thread

[Lee Stone]

gorman, dejong, and flaherty sounds like something they would try. I would love Gorman and Edman though. Move Arraez to 1b, Gorman to 2b, and Edman at SS and hope Segura stops trying to hit baseballs with 1 knee on the ground. Rogers, Eder, and then whatever other pitchers they want. That's a deal i would include Cabrera in, but im not sure he is available. Dejong doesnt do much for me though. He is a slight upgrade on Wendle and has some pop i guess, but that doesnt move the needle for me. Edman does. Same with Brendan Donovan

You mention Eder as trade bait in every deal. I see him as a top three rotation guy and maybe better. Two years ago, he proved to be the best pitcher in all of AA. That's not a guy I'd even consider trading.

[lou]

agree. I'm open to giving segura a second chance next year, but they clearly need a spark and he isnt figuring it out this year. Wendle and Berti is an awful SS combo, and Cooper needs to go. The guy flails and swings and misses more than any player ever should. They need impact, extra base hitting.

Berti is the 4th or 5th best position player on the team and has 4 OAA at SS. I am shocked at his defensive ability at SS TBH, but I think we're at the point where we can say Jon Berti is good at baseball. His 6.6 WAR over 1420 PA is real. He has 3.9 WAR his last 700 PA roughly. He's at a 1.6 WAR this year in just under 300 PA. That's a 3 WAR pace for a season. We'd shit ourselves if any minor league hitter in the system did that - including Meyer and Eder. He is a starting calibre player at any 2B/SS/3B spot to me right now. I am just here to defend the honor of Berti. He is really good and really solid at a minimum.

But they do need another infielder ASAP. Ideally a longterm SS as Berti is likely better suited for 2B and is older, but any would do for today's purposes as beggars can't be choosers.

[lou]

Carlson and Dejong, 2 guys having mediocre hitting seasons, as your main additions today does not do much for their playoff chances. I would need Gorman and/or Edman/Donovan. Carlson and Dejong arent great hitters. Their lineup would still be ass.

Give me Gorman, Edman, and then go eat Grandal's salary and get his better bat behind the plate as well. Gallegos i would go for though.

I don't disagree that's the level of impact they need, but would you be ok moving something like this

Gorman, Edman, Gallegos
x
Rogers/Meyer, Eder, Cappe/Watson/Berry, Fulton, Mesa Jr., Chargois, and 1-2 FV40 throw-ins for that? I think it needs triple "centerpieces" and Fulton for that.

or alternatively.....

Garrett, Cappe/Watson/Berry, Monteverde, Mesa Jr., Chargois, and 1-2 FV40 throw-ins for that?
(Maybe Fulton instead of Monteverde + more FV40s get Flaherty added to that to replace the innings)


Gorman is going to cost A LOT and Edman is awesome. You'd have to really get them some guys here IMO.

[Erick]

I guess it was worth trying before the season, but the Marlins have to stop trying to force Joey Wendle into an every day role.

We moved Jazz to CF instead of SS thinking that Wendle was 1 of the best 9 in the lineup. And now the past couple of days, we’re playing Jon Berti in LF instead of Sanchez, keeping Wendle at SS.

It makes no sense.

If anything, assuming the lineup stays the same, just put Berti at SS every day, and platoon Wendle/Segura at 3B. Or play matchups at the 2 positions between the 3 guys. None of the 3 are every day players, it’s annoying having all of them on the same roster.

[fish16]

I don't disagree that's the level of impact they need, but would you be ok moving something like this

Gorman, Edman, Gallegos
x
Rogers/Meyer, Eder, Cappe/Watson/Berry, Fulton, Mesa Jr., Chargois, and 1-2 FV40 throw-ins for that? I think it needs triple "centerpieces" and Fulton for that.

or alternatively.....

Garrett, Cappe/Watson/Berry, Monteverde, Mesa Jr., Chargois, and 1-2 FV40 throw-ins for that?
(Maybe Fulton instead of Monteverde + more FV40s get Flaherty added to that to replace the innings)


Gorman is going to cost A LOT and Edman is awesome. You'd have to really get them some guys here IMO.

i would move that faster than you can possibly imagine if its rogers and not meyer That would be a steal on our ends, especially if it's rogers. Gorman is under control for years, edman is for 2 more after this year, and gallegos is under control for next year. you do that deal in a heartbeat.

[AdamRavs]

I have this feeling we arent going to do shit. We should be banging the Cards door down to make a deal.

[fish16]

You mention Eder as trade bait in every deal. I see him as a top three rotation guy and maybe better. Two years ago, he proved to be the best pitcher in all of AA. That's not a guy I'd even consider trading.

he pitched 70 innings 2 years ago and blew out his elbow. they have 3 ace level pitchers, plus garrett and cabrera already in the majors, Max Meyer due back next year, and then a host of other SP options long term. He has the most value in the system to get a bat to help this lineup. It's not that complicated.

[lou]

i would move that faster than you can possibly imagine if its rogers and not meyer That would be a steal on our ends, especially if it's rogers. Gorman is under control for years, edman is for 2 more after this year, and gallegos is under control for next year. you do that deal in a heartbeat.

I think I agree with you, but Rogers, Eder, Cappe/Watson, + Fulton and 3-4 more throw ins is a lot. I wouldn't say a steal, but that gives the Cardinals numerous arms to do things with and it does make sense for them offensively. They can easily find some backups as those other guys are playing a lot. Sending them Amaya in that deal may make sense too. A lot of permutations here to make it work.

Contreras, Knizner
Goldschmidt
Donovan, ______
DeJong, Winn
Arenado
Walker, Burleson/______
Carlson
Nootbar, O'Neill

[fish16]

I think I agree with you, but Rogers, Eder, Cappe/Watson, + Fulton and 3-4 more throw ins is a lot. I wouldn't say a steal, but that gives the Cardinals numerous arms to do things with and it does make sense for them offensively. They can easily find some backups as those other guys are playing a lot. Sending them Amaya in that deal may make sense too. A lot of permutations here to make it work.

Contreras, Knizner
Goldschmidt
Donovan, ______
DeJong, Winn
Arenado
Walker, Burleson/______
Nootbar
O'Neill, ______

that's not that much to me for 2 immediate impact lineup pieces that are under team control and a high level relief arm under control for next year at a not very high price. We overrate prospects a lot, especially the mid level guys, and especially when we havent developed a single hitting prospects in over 6 years. They have some of the best high level starting pitching in the league. You do whatever possible from the farm to give this lineup more impact, controllable bats to add to Jazz, Arraez, and Sanchez. Rogers hasnt been good in over 2 years, Eder is good but it's the price you pay, Cappe/Watson are having bad years, Fulton just had a major arm surgery, and fuck the other 3-4 throw ins. Acquiring guys who can immediately come in and you know are proven impact bats, and you have under control for at least the next 2 years and in gorman's case more, all at positions that you are hopelessly bad at right now, that move is a no brainer.

[lou]

he pitched 70 innings 2 years ago and blew out his elbow. they have 3 ace level pitchers, plus garrett and cabrera already in the majors, Max Meyer due back next year, and then a host of other SP options long term. He has the most value in the system to get a bat to help this lineup. It's not that complicated.

I think they should keep 8 SP on a big picture level. And Monteverde/Fulton can be the 8th.

Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Meyer
Three of Luzardo, Rogers, Garrett, and Eder and one of Monteverde and Fulton

I think moving 2-3 of the lefties makes the most sense, where if it's three, they just sign a lefty SP in free agency and you got the 8.

Rogers, Eder, and Fulton make the most sense to me here and don't fuck up the "Cueto" signing next year.

[lou]

that's not that much to me for 2 immediate impact lineup pieces that are under team control and a high level relief arm under control for next year at a not very high price. We overrate prospects a lot, especially the mid level guys, and especially when we havent developed a single hitting prospects in over 6 years. They have some of the best high level starting pitching in the league. You do whatever possible from the farm to give this lineup more impact, controllable bats to add to Jazz, Arraez, and Sanchez. Rogers hasnt been good in over 2 years, Eder is good but it's the price you pay, Cappe/Watson are having bad years, Fulton just had a major arm surgery, and fuck the other 3-4 throw ins. Acquiring guys who can immediately come in and you know are proven impact bats, and you have under control for at least the next 2 years and in gorman's case more, all at positions that you are hopelessly bad at right now, that move is a no brainer.

It's the only way for the Cardinals to get impact pitching, so don't sell ourselves short. They'd never sniff Rogers, Eder, and Fulton upside anywhere else in MLB. Fans do over value their own players, but no pitching package exists in MLB to get that trifecta from the Marlins in 1 swoop. Three upside lefties with a ton of control. That is nuts. Injuries be damned, these guys are getting medically cleared by doctors to be ready for spring training. All arms carry the risk, etc. etc.


And that ignores Edman is banged up so that softens that blow for them*

[rmc523]

The Braves acquired Brad Hand from the Rockies.

[rmc523]

Padres acquiring Ji Man Choi and Rich Hill from pirates.

[fish16]

cardinals in advanced talks with the blue jays for dejong. I didnt really want him so im cool with them, but kim needs to get these deals done today. If i hear the same old tired excuses of we were close and we couldnt give up the prospects im going to be furious. There are no excuses. This team needs major moves today.

[rmc523]

cardinals in advanced talks with the blue jays for dejong. I didnt really want him so im cool with them, but kim needs to get these deals done today. If i hear the same old tired excuses of we were close and we couldnt give up the prospects im going to be furious. There are no excuses. This team needs major moves today.

I'm telling you, we'll get the Jazz+Garcia are like adding 2 big bats" line after doing nothing.

I'll happily be wrong, but I fear it's what we're in for.