2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

Just a great trade for the Mets. In order to get the Marlins two best FCL players (by a mile), I assume the Mets are also paying Robertson's full salary (about $4 million) for the remainder of the season.

P.S. I was wrong about that ... Marlins are actually going to pay the $4 million. Just an even greater trade for Mets.

Oh no our fcl team got worse. Those two would have to excel at the next 4 higher levels just to get to the big leagues, and who knows how they would even do at the big league level. We are talking minor pieces and likely non major leaguers that might have been ready 5 years from now

[Nick]

I like the trade, but it needs to be followed up by a legit bat and a starter at the very least. They have to be all in now.

[emkayseven]

Just a great trade for the Mets. In order to get the Marlins two best FCL players (by a mile), I assume the Mets are also paying Robertson's full salary (about $4 million) for the remainder of the season.

P.S. I was wrong about that ... Marlins are actually going to pay the $4 million. Just an even greater trade for Mets.

Some extreme battered spouse syndrome

they’re going for it for the first time in 2 decades. Doesn’t matter if those guys go on to be perennial all stars and Robertson has a 6 ERA the rest of the way. This is what real teams do when they want to make the playoffs.

[fish16]

Lee, prepare yourself because sanoja and Peguero will be dealt as well

[lou]

Just a great trade for the Mets. In order to get the Marlins two best FCL players (by a mile), I assume the Mets are also paying Robertson's full salary (about $4 million) for the remainder of the season.

P.S. I was wrong about that ... Marlins are actually going to pay the $4 million. Just an even greater trade for Mets.

I'm with you here on this one Lee sort of, although I would say a slight overpay. I would have expected two FV40 guys, but I suppose "everyone is contending inflation" bumped it up to Vargas. Benintendi barely got more than this last year at the deadline as a 2.5+ WAR paced starting player. Between stuff like this and Giolito, this is going to be an expensive deadline.

Also the Mets are in a luxury threshold so they are going to save like $5.5m on top of this, with the Marlins absorbing $3.5 or so. So yes it's probably a great trade for the Mets and an it's fine one for the Marlins. At least they are doing something. They can make up those prospects.

[lou]

I like the trade, but it needs to be followed up by a legit bat and a starter at the very least. They have to be all in now.

Yea this is the key. A lot more is needed or this was pointless.

[lou]

Some extreme battered spouse syndrome

they’re going for it for the first time in 2 decades. Doesn’t matter if those guys go on to be perennial all stars and Robertson has a 6 ERA the rest of the way. This is what real teams do when they want to make the playoffs.

I don't think this is fair to Lee, as said a bit dramatic, but it is a good trade for the Mets. We'd be thrilled if the Marlins traded Wendle or Berti for something like that if non-contending which is effectively the comparison.

But good for them for making the first step at competency.

[lou]

Lee, prepare yourself because sanoja and Peguero will be dealt as well

Let's be nicer, myself included. Those do seem like good guys to move next though. I'd like to see some service time though versus rentals.

I think it's fair to be bummed both guys went, one of them seems like a good prize for them and maybe a throw in lesser guy on top. Two is a good get for the Mets. It's steep even if ultimately probably whatever like you said. I always on these things and try and piece together some motivations. So they must feel they are pretty set at 2B for years to give up some longterm hope/upside.

(1) Arraez (on a resign), (2) Edwards, (3) Watson (position shift, eventually upside you hold onto), (4) Morisette (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/co...position=2B/3B ---- > scouting reports are all a late blooming lefty if he works out and now has a .700 OPS in AA with a .269 BABIP. They loved him out of the draft and maybe he's starting to flash a little on the field), and (5) Ian Lewis who seems like someone could view as a higher upside version of Vargas ultimately, etc. This is pretty deep when you might get two more SS trickle downs (Amaya, Nunez) at 2B. You only need 1 good one here and 1 backup and this is at least 7 long terms guys with reasonable upside. So while we can like Vargas, this just says to me they seem comfortable dealing with 2B internally for years and years, and even more so if Gleyber is traded for (or they sign a longterm 2B) and swaps in for Arraez. These minor leaguers can just be marinated for a long long long time with their control and options. Optimistically this means Arraez is about to get a 5-6 year deal and they like him at 2B despite the stats, or something else is coming. TLDR - this is some reasonable 2B depth in the system so they did trade from a position of depth even if Vargas is a good looking kid.

As for catchers, it's a bit thinner as you need these guys in the minors to catch your staffs. This is the more puzzling one to me even if Vargas is the higher rated prospect. I hope this is an indication Alderman is going to see some major catching time but we'll see. I don't love the catching pipeline and I had high hopes preseason for all of them. They have some work to do here system wise. But if they think Banfield is turning into something (he's around .265/.300/.430 his last 450 PA with a solid K rate), that kicks them out years if they get even a backup out of him. This also does question for me they had Teel right there in the draft while I am totally fine with the N. Meyer pick, if they kind of knew Hernandez was going to be a deadline chip in advance, this seems odd to pas up a catcher. Time will tell, but this organization needs a better catcher pipeline big time now. Hernandez was a decent prospect here for who he was.

[lou]

Actually, I just saw this on rotoworld:

According to Baseball Prospectus’ editor-in-chief Craig Goldstein, Vargas was a borderline candidate for their recent Midseason Top-50 prospects list as his stock has taken off over the last few months.

I don't like how that sounds at all. That has to be way off if the Marlins are trading him for a rental. Hopefully that's a bit too much enthusiasm from BP. I imagine the Marlins have a much better idea here as they are ultimately stingy. But yikes.

[emkayseven]

The odds of an 18 year old prospect making the majors are very slim, let alone being a productive player, let alone being an all-star. I’m tired of waiting. The Marlins just got the best reliever on the market and we are busy counting our prospects. Let’s stop blowing games, let’s add a bat or two, and let’s make the real playoffs for the first time in two decades

[fish16]

The odds of an 18 year old prospect making the majors are very slim, let alone being a productive player, let alone being an all-star. I’m tired of waiting. The Marlins just got the best reliever on the market and we are busy counting our prospects. Let’s stop blowing games, let’s add a bat or two, and let’s make the real playoffs for the first time in two decades

exactly. The exact reason you sign those guys is for the off chance they become something, or to use as trade chips if they develop. Just think about the road they would have to take to not only get to the big leagues, but be a productive player here. We're talking 5 years to just make the big leagues, let alone succeed here. They have to perform well in Jupiter, Beloit, Pensacola, and jacksonville just to get here, and then they actually have to be good enough to succeed at this level. It's obviously possible, but go look at the top IFA lists from every year. Very few actually hit. It's a risk that one becomes Fernando Tatis Jr, but that never happens. They can trade the whole FCL and DSL roster for all i care if it means helping the team make the playoffs these last few months.

[fish16]

there is talk about robertson being the closer now, but given our lefty depth in the bullpen, i think you have to stick with puk a little longer. IF he continues to struggle, you go to robertson, but it makes no sense to now put a guy who is really your only reliable proven righty in the closer role and then have 4 lefty set up/middle relievers. I still think they need 1 more righty reliever, but it can be a chargois level. We dont desperately need another righty back end guy. just 1 more depth guy.

Right now we are looking at the following once nardi comes back this weekend: Nardi, Puk, Okert, Scott, Robertson, Chargois, Brazoban, Lopez. That is good enough. If we add other areas and cant find 1 more guy, it should be decent enough, but if they can sneak another really quality righty reliever in one of these other trades that will inevitably be coming in the next few days, it wouldnt hurt.

[fish16]

Let's be nicer, myself included. Those do seem like good guys to move next though. I'd like to see some service time though versus rentals.

I think it's fair to be bummed both guys went, one of them seems like a good prize for them and maybe a throw in lesser guy on top. Two is a good get for the Mets. It's steep even if ultimately probably whatever like you said. I always on these things and try and piece together some motivations. So they must feel they are pretty set at 2B for years to give up some longterm hope/upside.

(1) Arraez (on a resign), (2) Edwards, (3) Watson (position shift, eventually upside you hold onto), (4) Morisette (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/co...position=2B/3B ---- > scouting reports are all a late blooming lefty if he works out and now has a .700 OPS in AA with a .269 BABIP. They loved him out of the draft and maybe he's starting to flash a little on the field), and (5) Ian Lewis who seems like someone could view as a higher upside version of Vargas ultimately, etc. This is pretty deep when you might get two more SS trickle downs (Amaya, Nunez) at 2B. You only need 1 good one here and 1 backup and this is at least 7 long terms guys with reasonable upside. So while we can like Vargas, this just says to me they seem comfortable dealing with 2B internally for years and years, and even more so if Gleyber is traded for (or they sign a longterm 2B) and swaps in for Arraez. These minor leaguers can just be marinated for a long long long time with their control and options. Optimistically this means Arraez is about to get a 5-6 year deal and they like him at 2B despite the stats, or something else is coming. TLDR - this is some reasonable 2B depth in the system so they did trade from a position of depth even if Vargas is a good looking kid.

As for catchers, it's a bit thinner as you need these guys in the minors to catch your staffs. This is the more puzzling one to me even if Vargas is the higher rated prospect. I hope this is an indication Alderman is going to see some major catching time but we'll see. I don't love the catching pipeline and I had high hopes preseason for all of them. They have some work to do here system wise. But if they think Banfield is turning into something (he's around .265/.300/.430 his last 450 PA with a solid K rate), that kicks them out years if they get even a backup out of him. This also does question for me they had Teel right there in the draft while I am totally fine with the N. Meyer pick, if they kind of knew Hernandez was going to be a deadline chip in advance, this seems odd to pas up a catcher. Time will tell, but this organization needs a better catcher pipeline big time now. Hernandez was a decent prospect here for who he was.

The chances of hernandez developing are slim to none. He's young, but he's not 17. He is going to be 20 in october. He will never be a big league player almost assuredly. Honestly, same for Vargas. They should also deal Peguero, Gerardo, and Sanoja too. You can always keep signing IFA guys annually to keep adding young talent to the minor leagues.

Also, in regards to guys with service time, it wouldnt hurt for the lineup, but for the bullpen i dont really give a shit if we get rentals. Bullpen arms can be found every offseason, so while it would be nice to get some service time, this is fine. Id be fine with all rentals, but id put more of a priority on service time for lineup pieces, bullpen and rotation we will be fine long term.

[fish16]

Anyone have a single guy we have signed internationally and developed through the DSL, then FCL, then the rest of the minor leagues since Marcell Ozuna? And ozuna showed more power than any of the current guys. Deal them all for all i care.

[fish16]

So overall so far, we have added a backend righty and a depth righty with a high ceiling but super low floor for pretty much nothing. We still have a ton of prospect depth to deal from to help the lineup and get a rotation piece. Really solid deadline so far as the bullpen was completely falling apart from overwork. And this obviously means we arent done, plus all reports indicate we are going after bats. So this is going to be a much better team the last 2 months of the year. The question will be is it enough. But every team will have that question. When you are in this spot for the first time in 20 years, you have to go for it. Hopefully kim pulls it off and we can get some home playoff games.