2023 Game Thread

[rmc523]

What the fuck was that defensive alignment for Arraez of all people?

Maybe the thought was he's scoring from 3rd on a hit to any OF anyway, why not try to cut it off?

[fish16]

bob nightengale, who for what it's worth might be the worst and least accurate insider in baseball, says we are going hard after candelario and view him as the perfect fit. Free agent to be, probably costs a mid level guy or 2. He is a great 3b, Segura is a great 2b, and Arraez is a decent 1b, and cooper is somehow sick every other week and just not that good. I hope they shift the infield around. Candelario at 3b, Segura at 2b, Arraez at 1b. Essentially offensively you are improving Cooper with Candelario, but defensively that's a pretty massive improvement to the infield defense which has been lacking at times. Not Jorge cantu level 3b play but that's certainly an improvement at all 3 infield positions which we could use.

[lou]

Mish has been wrong about a lot of things the last 2-3 years.

It’s entirely possible that Sixto’s bullpen a few days ago went horrible. But as long as Sixto is occupying a spot on the Marlins 40 man roster, it’s tough to say he’ll never pitch in a big league game.

If and when he gets launched off of the 40 man, that will be a very sad day for Sixto (he hasn’t made enough money to live comfortably over the next 50-60 years) and Marlins fans.

It will mean that the Yelich, Stanton and Realmuto trades were a complete dumpster fire.

This is already a dumpster fire because of Yelich, but if Sixto works out into something, they'd maybe break even as Sandy and Jazz are very good. It's still disappointing when we saw how good Burnes and Woodruff are, and maybe one of them could have been involved instead, etc.

[lou]

You realize there are assistant GMs for multiple roles, right?

The Yankees did and continue to have multiple and her role never had anything to do with personnel moves, player development, or anything of that nature. It was always making sure the money on arbitration and contracts added up. She was an accountant. She had the same role with the Dodgers. She then went to MLB and did office work for another old friend in Joe Torre. She then over more than a decade interviewed for multiple open GM positions and never even warranted a second interview.

And when you listen to her unimpressively talk about baseball it becomes clear why.

She made friends with Jeter when she was with that organization and the franchise decided to do a publicity stunt.

*YIKES*

If you don't realize how misogynist this is, you should reassess. She is an extremely decorated baseball executive who earned her job. She can also not be good at it if you just want to take that position. Bringing gender into this is extremely weak and you should know better. This is radio call in talk show, deep twitter comment, level garbage.

[lou]

Here's my deadline hope- Go get Carlson and Montgomery from the Cardinals. That would take Eder +. Go get Yan Gomes from the Cubs. That would take very little and be a massive improvement. Go get Candelario from the Nats. that would be a 10-15 level prospect given he will be a free agent. Then go get 2 righty bullpen arms. Dont necessarily need to be back end guys. Maybe 1 mid reliever and 1 backend guy. For example 2 of Gallegos, Hicks, and Stratton from the cards.

Seems like a lot, and it will cost a good deal of prospects, but not top guys outside of eder. Can roll out the following the rest of the year:

C- Gomes/Fortes or Stallings
1b- Arraez
2b- Segura
SS- Wendle/Berti unfortunately
3b- Candelario
LF- DLC
CF- Carlson
RF- Sanchez
DH- Soler
Bench- Cooper, Backup C, Berti, Edwards, Myers until Jazz gets back
SP- Sandy, Luzardo, Montgomery, Eury, Cabrera, Garrett
RP- Puk, Gallegos, Stratton, Nardi, Scott, Okert, Chargois/Brazoban, and then keep cueto as a multi inning guy if this velocity increase is legit.

It is a lot of rentals, but getting rentals also allows them to give up less prospect capital. Just go for it. Fuck it. Regardless, we will still have the core moving forward of Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, Arraez, Jazz, and then Sanchez and Carlson. That's a healthy level of controlled talent, specifically in the rotation, that would make me comfortable with just saying fuck it and going for it.

Carlson has 3 more years of control and 2.5+ WAR projections moving forward so the surplus value math is going to be Eder + Meyer/Cappe/Berry/Watson + Fulton/Vargas/Edwards/Amaya + 2-3 more FV40/flyers, and good ones. It's going to take a lot. Gallegos/Hicks get something Montervederish thrown in on top. *OR* They like Rogers medicals and this becomes Rogers and some FV40 guys for the two of them. Rogers, Monteverde, Millbrandt, and Fitterer is a real interesting trade IMO for Carlson + Flaherty, and maybe a little something else gets DeJong/Hicks/Gallegos/Knizner throw in for the hell of it. Dropping them Mesa Jr. and another arm may move some needles there. Or some of those Gerardo/Peguero guys 5 years away like you mention.

Candelario would be at least Fulton/Edwards and another second solid FV40 throw in. I feel it would be more as everyone wants him. Fulton and Vargas?

The kicker is, other teams in baseball also have prospects similar to these guys so you're going to have to have the guy the Cardinals or Nationals like the most, or throw in more. So that's the floor above. I imagine this is a throw in more scenario.


That being said, I agree with you and would blow it out for Carlson and Flaherty (cheaper than Montgomery and a fine rental) and Candelario, and then do the unthinkable, extend Candelario for 2-3 years. That'll really set them up short and longterm. Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, and Garrett can certainly be a longterm rotation, with the rentals + Cueto on top (maybe good enough? That start wasn't bad?). I think in my mind, if they can hold onto one of Meyer, Eder, and Rogers and one of Fulton and Monteverde, that is effectively 7 longterm SP even if someone like Monteverde may be a # 5 projection at best. That's fine. That front 5 should be strong and you can always get a bulk reliever 6th SP for likely cheap or they can conjure up another Brazoban as they literally do that every year. Because Kim and the FO aren't idiots even if some moves have certainly not worked out. Maybe give them a budget to work with, hint, the problem is mostly Bruce. Because he's a guy and most guys don't win the world series because they are idiots, so Bruce and his manliness are the problem. ::eye rolls::

[fish16]

Carlson has 3 more years of control and 2.5+ WAR projections moving forward so the surplus value math is going to be Eder + Meyer/Cappe/Berry/Watson + Fulton/Vargas/Edwards/Amaya + 2-3 more FV40/flyers, and good ones. It's going to take a lot. Gallegos/Hicks get something Montervederish thrown in on top. *OR* They like Rogers medicals and this becomes Rogers and some FV40 guys for the two of them. Rogers, Monteverde, Millbrandt, and Fitterer is a real interesting trade IMO for Carlson + Flaherty, and maybe a little something else gets DeJong/Hicks/Gallegos/Knizner throw in for the hell of it. Dropping them Mesa Jr. and another arm may move some needles there. Or some of those Gerardo/Peguero guys 5 years away like you mention.

Candelario would be at least Fulton/Edwards and another second solid FV40 throw in. I feel it would be more as everyone wants him. Fulton and Vargas?

The kicker is, other teams in baseball also have prospects similar to these guys so you're going to have to have the guy the Cardinals or Nationals like the most, or throw in more. So that's the floor above. I imagine this is a throw in more scenario.


That being said, I agree with you and would blow it out for Carlson and Flaherty (cheaper than Montgomery and a fine rental) and Candelario, and then do the unthinkable, extend Candelario for 2-3 years. That'll really set them up short and longterm. Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, and Garrett can certainly be a longterm rotation, with the rentals + Cueto on top (maybe good enough? That start wasn't bad?). I think in my mind, if they can hold onto one of Meyer, Eder, and Rogers and one of Fulton and Monteverde, that is effectively 7 longterm SP even if someone like Monteverde may be a # 5 projection at best. That's fine. That front 5 should be strong and you can always get a bulk reliever 6th SP for likely cheap or they can conjure up another Brazoban as they literally do that every year. Because Kim and the FO aren't idiots even if some moves have certainly not worked out. Maybe give them a budget to work with, hint, the problem is mostly Bruce. Because he's a guy and most guys don't win the world series because they are idiots, so Bruce and his manliness are the problem. ::eye rolls::

Im not going to get into the candelario argument because we will see who is right within the next week. You are getting him for 2 months. That will cost a solid prospect, but it will be 1-2 guys in the 10-20 area of the organization. given their rebuilding status and how far they are from contending, i would think a DSL guy and maybe a guy like Milbrandt would be more than enough. Regardless of the bidding war, they arent getting a top prospect for a guy who has 2 months before free agency. Go look at the precedents. There is no precedent for a major prospect haul for a guy of his caliber.

Also, fulton isnt going in any trades. No one is trading for a guy who is rehabbing from a very recent major surgery.

They can have whatever combo of guys outside of Meyer they want for Carlson. Eder + whatever else they want for him and a starter and preferably a reliever as well. That is worth it.

I think you are highly overvaluing the trade value of free agents in 2 months. Again, just go look at the precedent of the last few trade deadlines. 2 months of players dont get you a ton. The price goes down significantly. You dont get them for free obviously but it's not quite as much as you think it is.

[fish16]

*YIKES*

If you don't realize how misogynist this is, you should reassess. She is an extremely decorated baseball executive who earned her job. She can also not be good at it if you just want to take that position. Bringing gender into this is extremely weak and you should know better. This is radio call in talk show, deep twitter comment, level garbage.

exactly my thoughts. You dont have to think she is good at her job but she was certainly qualified. Saying she was simply an accountant making sure the money added up is just flatly wrong and misogynistic.

[fish16]

Pirates listening on bednar but will be hard to get per heyman. Rogers and Eder plus mid level guys enough? Probably not

[rmc523]

Braves just traded for Pierce Johnson from the Rockies.

[Namaste]

Braves just traded for Pierce Johnson from the Rockies.

4.57 FIP and 6 ERA. Can’t wait for him to have a 0.75 ERA for the remainder of the reg season and playoffs.

[fish16]

mish says they are looking to add to the current crop of ML SP. So Cabrera, luzardo, garrett obviously not in play. Eder will be gone in the next week. I hope Max Meyer is not in play.

[fish16]

4.57 FIP and 6 ERA. Can’t wait for him to have a 0.75 ERA for the remainder of the reg season and playoffs.

they also just added another reliever from the rangers who has a 10 ERA. they do the same thing every deadline. They have such an obnoxiously good cheap core they add multiple pieces every deadline from their prospect group and go for it every year because their GM has done an amazing job building that team. They are of course not done. Id bet they add some sort of high level SP and they need more bullpen help. I hope they dont steal Bednar.

[fish16]

with the new draftees signed we're finally seeing prospect promotions. Montgomery to Beloit. Jacob Berry has had a solid month so he is in AA. Monteverde and Johnston up to AAA

[fish16]

i didnt realize how well Luzardo stacked up in the NL Cy Young race. He is second in pitcher war in the NL tied with Stroman at 3 and behind only Kershaw who leads the league in WAR at 3.1 despite being on the IL for the last month. He is ridiculous.

[Nick]

Very curious to see if Troy Johnston gets more love in off-season prospect lists. Doesn't strike out a ton, hits for high average, walks, probably would want a little more power from a 1B/DH, but he's got 18 HRs this year at AA. He's older, just turned 26, but he's hit at every stop. We'll see, maybe we already had in our system what we were looking to get from Berry when we drafted him.