2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

jazz and segura back in the lineup tonight batting 4th and 6th. Sanchez moved to 7th. Hopefully jazz can come out hot because the lineup has been in a funk outside of arraez

[Lee Stone]

The inning limitation thing with Perez seems silly to me. Dwight Gooden's innings pitched: in mlb at age 19 = 218 age 20 = 276 age 21 = 250

And Gooden was no soft tosser. If your pitcher gets a tired arm, you rest him. That simple.

[Namaste]

I think you misunderstand BABIP a lot.

And I think you can’t see the forest through the trees a lot.


“Jean Segura’s results as a hitter have been awful through 79 games therefore he will be awful for the remaining 85 games statistics be damned”

[Nick]

The inning limitation thing with Perez seems silly to me. Dwight Gooden's innings pitched: in mlb at age 19 = 218 age 20 = 276 age 21 = 250

And Gooden was no soft tosser.

Yes, the fact that one guy did it, proves that being careful with Eury is silly. Maybe we should get Eury hooked up with some coke too to be more like Doc.

Also, I was not born when Gooden did that. I'm a 36-year old man. We have a little bit more knowledge about the human body and the effect pitching at a high level has on it now.

[fish16]

The inning limitation thing with Perez seems silly to me. Dwight Gooden's innings pitched: in mlb at age 19 = 218 age 20 = 276 age 21 = 250

And Gooden was no soft tosser.

dwight gooden was also coked out of his mind and a complete anomaly and ended up being pretty bad the entire last 7 years of his career as a result of what he and the team did to his body. I dont think he should be hard capped at 120 if he looks and feels fine but having some sort of limit is absolutely the right call even if it sucks. If anything move him to the bullpen if we get into the playoffs and let him get a few innings at a time to impact games that way.

gooden pitched over 130 innings just 1 time after the age of 30.

[Nick]

dwight gooden was also coked out of his mind and a complete anomaly and ended up being pretty bad the entire last 7 years of his career as a result of what he and the team did to his body. I dont think he should be hard capped at 120 if he looks and feels fine but having some sort of limit is absolutely the right call even if it sucks. If anything move him to the bullpen if we get into the playoffs and let him get a few innings at a time to impact games that way.

gooden pitched over 130 innings just 1 time after the age of 30.

I'm glad we both made a joke about Gooden's cocaine abuse. Well done.

[Erick]

And his BABIP has been bad all year. No one is arguing he has been remotely good, but that doesnt preclude him from also being super unlucky thus far which is making him even worse.

His expected numbers have him as a low .600's OPS. He currently has a .493 OPS. That is the definition of someone who has had bad luck. That doesnt make him good this year either. The two arent mutually exclusive. His expected slugging is .332 and his current actual slugging percentage is .234. His expected batting average is 51 points higher than his actual batting average.

He also hasnt been "No business playing against righties" bad for years. He was an average .669 last year, in 2021 against righties it was .736, in 2020 it was .746, He does hit lefties better for his career, but he has never been some platoon guy. He has been one of the most consistently solid productive guys for 7 straight years coming into this year.

If he is what he has been for 7 straight years coming into this year, that's not close to one of the worst hitters in baseball in terms of every day starters. He's been a very solid hitter for years, and it isnt just relative to 2b. His numbers play at 3b as well. Even with this year and his first 3-4 full years where he hit in the .600's OPS, he is still a career .729 OPS guy. you dont do that without being a very productive player. He had a WRC+ from 105-126 for 6 out of the last 7 years before this year.

He has been terrible, but what you're doing is completely misrepresenting who he has been for his entire career. He will be better the remainder of the year or else he will have had one of the most unlucky seasons in league history.

You’re apparently satisfied with a .669 .OPS so cool, I guess.

“He was an average .669 last year.” A .669 .OPS is average? A .669 .OPS would be worst among qualified NL 3B this year.

What you’re not understanding is that a lucky Jean Segura is still bad at this point. He’s not a good hitter, and honestly hasn’t transitioned that well to 3B anyway based on the metrics.

He has no business starting for a contender anymore in 2023.

[Erick]

And I think you can’t see the forest through the trees a lot.


“Jean Segura’s results as a hitter have been awful through 79 games therefore he will be awful for the remaining 85 games statistics be damned”

You’re right, maybe he can produce the nice .669 .OPS he put up last year for us the rest of the way.

That is acceptable, apparently.

Honestly, I’m not sure why Kim Ng tried to upgrade the offense last offseason. We had a team .OPS of .658. Perfectly average by Jean standards!

[fish16]

You’re apparently satisfied with a .669 .OPS so cool, I guess.

“He was an average .669 last year.” A .669 .OPS is average? A .669 .OPS would be worst among qualified NL 3B this year.

What you’re not understanding is that a lucky Jean Segura is still bad at this point. He’s not a good hitter, and honestly hasn’t transitioned that well to 3B anyway based on the metrics.

He has no business starting for a contender anymore in 2023.

the .669 was him against only righties last year, and yes that's passable when he crushes lefties like he has for his career. His actual career numbers against righties is a .715 OPS and a .281 average, more than passable when you combine it with the .771 OPS against lefties. the 2 years prior to last year he was .736 against righties and in 2020 it was .748. This whole narrative where he is some platoon player who cant hit righties because he has gotten off to a terrible start this year and combined it with being very unlucky is just nonsense that doesnt hold up to the actual numbers.

Im also not sure what youre trying to do with him defensively. He's been almost exactly average defensively at 3b.

[fish16]

You’re apparently satisfied with a .669 .OPS so cool, I guess.

“He was an average .669 last year.” A .669 .OPS is average? A .669 .OPS would be worst among qualified NL 3B this year.

What you’re not understanding is that a lucky Jean Segura is still bad at this point. He’s not a good hitter, and honestly hasn’t transitioned that well to 3B anyway based on the metrics.

He has no business starting for a contender anymore in 2023.

the .669 ops was against righties, which is also significantly below his career numbers vs righties. He crushed lefties for an overall really productive player. He has been good against both lefties and righties for his career. He is not some platoon player.

What you're not understanding is that he has a close to 7 year track record of remarkably consistently solid production, and 200 bad and very unlucky ab's doesnt change that fact. He will get the whole year, and he will likely have a regression to his mean for the remainder of the year. Every one of his hit profile peripherals is exactly where it has been for the last 7 years. He will be fine.

He was literally a 3 WAR over 162 game starter on a world series team less than 8 months ago. He didnt all of a sudden forget how to hit in one offseason when he has had the same numbers for close to 7 years

[Todd]

In fairness most of that was from his defense and that was primarily at 2B.

Even if he is ridiculously unlucky and hit at his normal level that bat still doesn't play at 3B.

It was kind of a weird signing then and still is.

[fish16]

sandy better hold this lead tonight. hopefully we can tack on 2 more in a moment.

[fish16]

jazz being back is huge. he was definitely seeing the ball well in his rehab stint, hopefully it carries over the rest of the first half

[fish16]

Would you look at that, Jean segura hit a homer in his first game back

[Nick]

Hopefully that’s a sign of things to come.