2023 Game Thread

[Nick]

I was trying to put together a solid team of players currently in the system with moving on the older(+30) players. It...I dont think I succeeded.

C-Fortes
1B-Groshans
2B-Chisholm(L)
3B-Amaya
SS-Edwards(S)
LF-De La Cruz
CF-Mangum(S)
RF-Sanchez(L)
DH-Arraez(L)

C/UT-Hostetler, UT-Hampson, OF-Miller, OF-Burdick

SP-Alcantra, Rogers(LHP), Cabrera, Luzardo(LHP), Perez, Garrett(LHP)
RP-Hoeing, Bender, Puk(LHP), Nardi(LHP), Scott(LHP), Soriano, Maldonado

Really Jake Mangum? And you're gonna give shit to Dane Myers?

You wouldn't be able to. It depends on how far you're going into the future, if we're including guys that could possibly be ready by 2024/2025.

C-Fortes
1B-Arraez
2B-Edwards
3B-Dane Myers
SS-Nunez/Amaya
LF-DLC
CF-Jazz (you could probably swap him and Edwards if you wanted to Jazz I think has a higher ceiling as a CF defender, but will playing CF be detrimental to his health?)
RF-Sanchez
DH-Troy Johnston/Peyton Burdick (Probably play Burdick in the field when he plays since he's a better defender than both DLC and Sanchez)

Bench - Will Banfield - C, Victor Mesa Jr. - OF, Jose Devers - UT

I'm not saying SS is locked down, the guys in the mix, Edwards/Amaya/Nunez have a lot to prove obviously, but still my priority would be adding power to this offense any way you can. Most likely in the form of a 1B/3B/LF/RF/DH. Of course if that power bat is somehow in the form of a SS even better but those guys typically cost $300 million+.

[Nick]

I hate to break it to you guys, but Jordan Groshans sucks shit.

[Nick]

Pitching -

SP - Sandy, Eury, Luzardo, Garrett, Cabrera, Rogers, Eder, Meyer, Hoeing, Monteverde, Fitterer (if he improves his control)
RP - Puk, Nardi, Scott, Maldonado, Bender, Sean Reynolds, Soriano

That's 18 pitchers, probably drop Reynolds, Soriano, Monteverde, Fitterer and maybe Bender. Move Meyer, Hoeing, Eder and Rogers to the pen. It'd be a very lefty-heavy pen, but that's what I'd go with.

[fish16]

I hate to break it to you guys, but Jordan Groshans sucks shit.

Agreed, I kept arguing with Lou in the offseason that it was ridiculous to pencil groshans in for like a win above replacement and the guy stinks. Just like projecting anything other than negative WAR for stallings was absurd on its face from Fangraphs.

[fish16]

i admit i wrote off dane myers when he was first brought up but at a certain point you have to give him a look, if only because the alternatives are garrett hampson and because he is forcing the issue. He is a former pitcher so the age isnt as concerning because its not like he is toiling around in the minors struggling for 8 years and finally breaking out. Also, if you look at the numbers compared to last year, he is clearly improved over last year. Last year he had 34 walks in 450 ab's, this year he is already at 42 in just 222 ab's. plus he is not k'ing much at all and he already has 15 sb's in 16 attempts so the speed, or at least the overall athleticism is clearly there. see what you have.

When we are talking about him vs hampson, why not give him a shot. Hampson is terrible.

[fish16]

jazz should be back for the boston series. If you saw his ridiculous diving catch yesterday, you know he is healthy. Also had a double and 2 walks. Id guess they try to play him multiple games in a row this weekend then bring him up.

[Nick]

i admit i wrote off dane myers when he was first brought up but at a certain point you have to give him a look, if only because the alternatives are garrett hampson and because he is forcing the issue. He is a former pitcher so the age isnt as concerning because its not like he is toiling around in the minors struggling for 8 years and finally breaking out. Also, if you look at the numbers compared to last year, he is clearly improved over last year. Last year he had 34 walks in 450 ab's, this year he is already at 42 in just 222 ab's. plus he is not k'ing much at all and he already has 15 sb's in 16 attempts so the speed, or at least the overall athleticism is clearly there. see what you have.

When we are talking about him vs hampson, why not give him a shot. Hampson is terrible.

Agreed, he can play pretty much anywhere except 2B/SS/C. (we'll see how well, I've heard mixed things, mostly that he's athletic, but hasn't particularly mastered one particular position since his move from Pitcher) Give him plenty of ABs, and see what happens. He'd be taking ABs away from the likes of Berti and Wendle. Who cares?

[Lee Stone]

I hate to break it to you guys, but Jordan Groshans sucks shit.

That's what the Rays concluded back when they sent him to the Marlins.

[lou]

I hate to break it to you guys, but Jordan Groshans sucks shit.

I forgot Nunez above for sure.

Mangum also is supposedly a great defensive CF and he has hit everywhere. I think it's interesting he doesn't even get mentions, but Mets fans thought he might be their 5th OF this year. There might be something there.

Groshans is still 23 with a 12%/17% BB/K and a .274 BABIP. With a BABIP normalizing and very minor slugging uptick, he's probably hitting .270/.350/.400 pretty quickly. Great? No. But it's not bad and could translate to the bigs eventually. The FG report he doesn't look good at 3B is concerning, but he has this year and 2 more option years so we'll see what happens. I'm not sure his book is written yet as he is big, he doesn't strike out, and those guys can start hitting for average.... unlike Jerar who is 25 and whiffing 42%(!) and has a .211 AVG with a .342 BABIP in AAA which is just a bummer. He is probably done and off the 40 man when needed.

I think if we are eliminating the A ball guys (Cappe, Watson, Mack, Berry, Lewis), it's pretty hard to not put Groshans in a top 13 under 30. I'll revise to this with some further thought with the parenthesis being the top next guy. Devers stats are much better than I was expecting, so maybe Devers should be considered above Groshans here, but we're really splitting hairs with fringe guys at this stage. Devers might go over Myers also. Who knows what they have with Myers, but for the sake of fun, we can just put him in there as he is legit raking right now.

Fortes, Banfield (McIntosh)
Arraez (Johnston)
Edwards (Hampson)
Amaya, Nunez (Devers)
Groshans, D. Myers (D. Rosario)
DLC (Encarnacion)
Jazz, Mesa Jr. (Mangum)
Sanchez, Burdick

If they get 10 players out of this, that would be amazing to me. And that's including five (Fortes, Arraez, DLC, Jazz, Sanchez) look pretty good right now. That's how low my expectations are, but fingers crossed presumably Banfield, Edwards, Amaya, Nunez, and pick an OF all work out, and then the hit on at least half of Cappe, Watson, Berry, and Mack.


Pitching is much easier:

SP-R Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Meyer
RP-R Bender, Hoeing
(Maldonado, Pushard, Reynolds, Soriano, Fitterer, and ................ Sixto)

SP-L Luzardo, Garrett, Rogers, Eder
RP-L Puk, Scott, Nardi
(Fulton, Monteverde, Simpson)

Just totally loaded, and guys like Okert, Chargois, and Brazoban have a lot of control left so there is even more on top of this but the line in the sand was 30. They have everything they need assuming Meyer becomes the high leverage RP here.


TLDR - They are in really good shape if Bruce will spend some money

[fish16]

last night was an enormous comeback win with 3 coming against some not so great or super inexperienced starters for them, plus Reynolds out.. Gotta get at least 2 of these last 3. If they can get all 3 going into a little tougher schedule heading into the break that would be huge. Got jazz coming back soon too so hopefully that can give the lineup a boost because you gotta think arraez slows down just a little at some point. We need DLC to get hot again really badly. He's picked it up this week with 6 hits in 4 games after just a single hit all of last week. Hopefully cooper's bat is heating up because he has been bad this year but has looked much better recently.

You cant ask for much more from the pitching outside of sandy's blowups, which you have to think will improve at some point because the underlying peripherals are still solid.

Puk for Bleday was a tremendous trade. We need 1 more set up guy though for the stretch run.

I really want to see edwards up here and Davis and Hampson gone when jazz comes back. IDK what else Edwards has to do to prove that he should be up here over Hampson.

[Nick]

That's what the Rays concluded back when they sent him to the Marlins.

You mean Blue Jays?

[fish16]

Braxton garrett has been unreal this year. Already at 1.7 WAR, unreal control with 90 k's and just 14 walks. Outside of that 1 game, he has a 2.42 ERA, .99 WHIP, and a 87/12 K/BB ratio in 72 innings. Not just good, but elite level production to pick up the slack for Sandy's struggles. Just a huge boost given sandy and the injuries to rogers and cueto when they were penciled in as starters to start the year. All that with an average fastball just under 90 mph. Living up to the hype of the 7th overall pick.

[fish16]

You mean Blue Jays?

i was going to correct him too but i think it probably autocorrected from Jays

[Nick]

I expect Groshans to add some power since he’s only 23, but he needs to add a ton of power to be playable at 3B/1B. I don’t see it happening.

[fish16]

to illustrate how good the pitching has been, there is not a single pitcher on the active roster outside of Archie bradley in his 3 innings who has an XFIP above 4.18, and that 4.18 is sandy.