2023 Game Thread

[lou]

I do think there is a legitimate question if Hampson is tendered for a bench spot next year.

He has a .400+ BABIP and statcast says he is closer to a .660 OPS hitter overall. Slightly below average defense overall....... but is doing "OK" at SS and OF. If we consider him a lefty platoon player (.755 OPS vs LHP for his career over 450 PA and doing it again this year), this is an easy 60+ game starter, elite pinch runner (98th percentile sprint speed), and a 350 PA player and over 250 PA of those are likely against lefties. He might cost $1.25-1.5m for 1 year. This sounds like a suitable Jazz/Sanchez backup to me who can help in the IF if there are more injuries. You can do worse.

I HATE the BABIP, but I can appreciate the lefty hitting/play all over floor he brings. He was also considered a huge breakout prospect 4-5 years ago so maybe he is late blooming at 28 a little (similar to Berti who didn't make a MLB impact until he was 29). This isn't a large financial commitment ultimately. It sets up a very non-power Edwards (could go back to AAA too), Hampson, and Berti bench, but get a SS who can hit on top of this, and the team is going to have some legit power w/ Bell, SS, Burger, Soler, Sanchez, Jazz, and DLC, etc. That could be 175 HR easily if the SS hits 20+. Amaya can stay in AAA a year easily or be included as a secondary piece in a trade so not worried about him with options.

Just saying here, I won't be surprised if Hampson is kept, but all roads still lead to a legitimate every day SS regardless of him.

[Lee Stone]

I'd consider Hampson for a roster spot if he turned that speed into frequent stolen bases ... but he doesn't. No thanks.

[fish16]

I do think there is a legitimate question if Hampson is tendered for a bench spot next year.

He has a .400+ BABIP and statcast says he is closer to a .660 OPS hitter overall. Slightly below average defense overall....... but is doing "OK" at SS and OF. If we consider him a lefty platoon player (.755 OPS vs LHP for his career over 450 PA and doing it again this year), this is an easy 60+ game starter, elite pinch runner (98th percentile sprint speed), and a 350 PA player and over 250 PA of those are likely against lefties. He might cost $1.25-1.5m for 1 year. This sounds like a suitable Jazz/Sanchez backup to me who can help in the IF if there are more injuries. You can do worse.

I HATE the BABIP, but I can appreciate the lefty hitting/play all over floor he brings. He was also considered a huge breakout prospect 4-5 years ago so maybe he is late blooming at 28 a little (similar to Berti who didn't make a MLB impact until he was 29). This isn't a large financial commitment ultimately. It sets up a very non-power Edwards (could go back to AAA too), Hampson, and Berti bench, but get a SS who can hit on top of this, and the team is going to have some legit power w/ Bell, SS, Burger, Soler, Sanchez, Jazz, and DLC, etc. That could be 175 HR easily if the SS hits 20+. Amaya can stay in AAA a year easily or be included as a secondary piece in a trade so not worried about him with options.

Just saying here, I won't be surprised if Hampson is kept, but all roads still lead to a legitimate every day SS regardless of him.

he better not be the starting SS next year. That would be a complete failure of an offseason. My contention is simply that he is by far the better option the rest of the year, and has been for several months now, to be the every day SS in place of Wendle. whatever positive Wendle brings as a defender, which in my opinion isnt anything spectacular, is far outweighed by just how inept he has been offensively. It's terrible at bat after terrible at bat, almost always ending in a strikeout or beyond weak grounders to SS or 2b.

[lou]

I'd consider Hampson for a roster spot if he turned that speed into frequent stolen bases ... but he doesn't. No thanks.

Including his MiLB time, he is 20+ SB pace per 600 PA this year and he hasn't been caught this year in 10 attempts. So I mean, that is something. I feel this is situational and he doesn't have a green light for whatever reason as a backup player. I think they could flip a switch and he could steal 15-20+ fast next year in 350 PA if they let him. 98th percent sprint speed will play here IMO.

I'd view it more, is he going to hit a .750 OPS vs LHP, play neutral enough defense in 2-3 defensive spots, and not be embarrassing against right handers. If we believe in those three things, I think there is a spot for him.

[fish16]

mlb should really go back to having the last few days of the regular season end on a wednesday as opposed to a sunday again. Not sure when they changed that but having the last 2 days of your regular season, a time when a bunch of playoff berths are finalized, go up against college football saturday and NFL sunday is an awful idea. They should go back to the last series of the year being a monday through wednesday and every team plays at the exact same time on the last game of the year. They did it that year where the rays made that crazy comeback and the red sox blew it and it was great theater. Just seems really foolish to ever put important games up against football.

They shouldnt have playoff games on sundays either. just seems like complete PR mismanagement to even try to do it.

Our last game of the year goes against Dolphins Bills at the exact same time. Just does not help the sport. You would think they want maximum eyes on one of the sports most important days. Last year oddly enough ended on a wednesday, but before then the last time was 2012.

[rmc523]

I'm with fish16 generally here. The franchise hasn't ever really invested consistently with the team and they have had three tear downs (post 05 after the "good" stretch, post new stadium, post Fernandez) the last 18 years with no "real" playoff appearances during this time. Covid year is nothing to me personally. They've had the lowest attendance and if not the worst record in baseball during this time, easily bottom 3-5. We don't need to go into it as we all know the history, but they need to consistently field a better product for years to create fan confidence. It can't just be, oh they are getting better so let's go on a weekday now. It's my whole problem with the ownership groups. They say come to the park and we'll invest in the team, when it is the opposite and invest in your team and run this like a business and not an entitlement franchise. Maybe you lose money for a few seasons, but the eyes are on the prize of consistently drawing 2m+ every season and then that + franchise valuation bumps make you back literally hundreds of millions.


I'm a big believer in the "if you build if they will come" philosophy of baseball, so cross your fingers and make the playoffs then do this in the offseason.

Arraez 5/$85m
Luzardo 5/$70m
Jazz 5/$60m + big playing time incentives if he hits PA
Eury 6/$55 + 2 club options
Soler 2/$32m
Scott 3/$27m

Trade Rogers, Nasim, and some 18 year old lottery ticket for Adames and throw-in prospect as a base package, and resign Adames to a 6/$130m deal. Milwaukee needs a pitcher and can't afford Adames longterm so it's getting rid of him a year early then for nothing.

Trade Fulton, Nardi, Mesa Jr., and Mack for Danny Jansen and a throw in and resign for 4/$50m deal. Toronto needs to cut payroll and gets all sorts of good secondary parts for "1" service year of Jansen. Maybe Pop comes back to the Marlins here to help with righty relievers.


You're running this out for $130-135m (so you have room to add a veteran RHP reliever) and just gave out $500m+ in contracts over 35+ control seasons of legitimate allstar level players, which do that math is a good deal on average per player even if that's a large number. It's over seasons and seasons. Everyone takes that here given where they are on service time.

Parenthesis are control years starting in 2024.

Jansen(4), Fortes(5)/Banfield(6)
Bell(1) --- > Berry replaces Bell
Arraez (5), Hampson(3) --- > Cappe replaces Hampson
Adames(6), Berti (1) --- > Amaya replaces Berti
Burger (5)
DLC (4)
Jazz (5), Edwards (6)
Sanchez (4)
Soler (2) --- > Dane/Burdick/Johnston/TBD replace Soler

Sandy (4), Eury (6+), Cabrera (5)
Luzardo (5), Garrett (5)
_______, Chargois (2), and pick two of Meyer (5), Bender (5), Brazoban (5), Soriano (6), Hoeing (6), Maldonado (6), Sixto(?), etc. They will churn righties.
Scott (3), Puk (3), Okert (3), Weathers (5)

This is roughly 17th out of 30 in payroll assuming it's a medium priced RHP reliever added to the top. They could just resign Moore here, and trade Puk or Okert for a similar CC right hander and the same thing is accomplished for call it $140m. Which is still 17th in payroll. This includes $16m in dead money to Garcia, Barnes, and Cueto I might add.


Basically this is a playoff contender and completely signed for 3 years and won't break the bank as Bell, Berti, Hampson, Chargois, Garcia, Barnes, and Cueto ($35m+) would come off 2024 to pay for raises in 2025 to Sandy, Sanchez, DLC, the lefty relievers, and other scale ups. Shit 2025 payroll would probably drop here. And then Soler and likely guys like DLC/Okert would come off in 2025 to help pay for 2026, etc. Then you'll have some decisions to make in 2027 but that is a LONG time from now, but practically, guys like N. Meyer and White may be ready by then. It's a sustainable high upside team for an under league average payroll and their best few position player prospects in upper farm should fit in nicely for the few bat defections coming.

This is the kind of vision I want to see, and then do better marketing where just cut ticket prices, cut beer prices, and pack the place for 2 years and then slowly scale back up the pricing. Just get butts in seats having a good time with a good product and good things will happen.


But what do I know. It's not my money. I'm sure they will impress us ::laugh track::. But I don't blame people until the franchise starts acting like a winner. See Florida Panthers who are drawing after massive multi year investments.

I'd be curious what slashing concession prices would do too - I remember that was a big thing about the Atlanta Falcons' new stadium - everything was cheap, and I recall sales skyrocketed to higher than before.

I'd love to see that - while I do think post-renovation, the food is better, the "305" menu with reasonably priced options is lacking.

[rmc523]

By loss i mean on a year to year basis. obviously it's almost impossible for an owner to lose money when they sell the team at this point. the tear down and rebuild was necessary, but he promised to spend when the time came after "rebuilding the organization from top to bottom" and that was bullshit. They way overestimated how much revenue they could generate simply because they werent loria and samson and because derek jeter was involved, as if anyone down here gave a shit about derek jeter buying a piece of the team and running things.

Yeah, hopefully on field success this year is what he terms as "when the time comes."

Those projections in that Project Wolverine thing Jeter had were WILDLY optimistic, and many of us said so at the time.....they had no basis in the reality of how the fanbase has been treated, and how poorly the team has been doing for so long.

[Namaste]

I'm with fish16 generally here. The franchise hasn't ever really invested consistently with the team and they have had three tear downs (post 05 after the "good" stretch, post new stadium, post Fernandez) the last 18 years with no "real" playoff appearances during this time. Covid year is nothing to me personally. They've had the lowest attendance and if not the worst record in baseball during this time, easily bottom 3-5. We don't need to go into it as we all know the history, but they need to consistently field a better product for years to create fan confidence. It can't just be, oh they are getting better so let's go on a weekday now. It's my whole problem with the ownership groups. They say come to the park and we'll invest in the team, when it is the opposite and invest in your team and run this like a business and not an entitlement franchise. Maybe you lose money for a few seasons, but the eyes are on the prize of consistently drawing 2m+ every season and then that + franchise valuation bumps make you back literally hundreds of millions.


I'm a big believer in the "if you build if they will come" philosophy of baseball, so cross your fingers and make the playoffs then do this in the offseason.

Arraez 5/$85m
Luzardo 5/$70m
Jazz 5/$60m + big playing time incentives if he hits PA
Eury 6/$55 + 2 club options
Soler 2/$32m
Scott 3/$27m

Trade Rogers, Nasim, and some 18 year old lottery ticket for Adames and throw-in prospect as a base package, and resign Adames to a 6/$130m deal. Milwaukee needs a pitcher and can't afford Adames longterm so it's getting rid of him a year early then for nothing.

Trade Fulton, Nardi, Mesa Jr., and Mack for Danny Jansen and a throw in and resign for 4/$50m deal. Toronto needs to cut payroll and gets all sorts of good secondary parts for "1" service year of Jansen. Maybe Pop comes back to the Marlins here to help with righty relievers.


You're running this out for $130-135m (so you have room to add a veteran RHP reliever) and just gave out $500m+ in contracts over 35+ control seasons of legitimate allstar level players, which do that math is a good deal on average per player even if that's a large number. It's over seasons and seasons. Everyone takes that here given where they are on service time.

Parenthesis are control years starting in 2024.

Jansen(4), Fortes(5)/Banfield(6)
Bell(1) --- > Berry replaces Bell
Arraez (5), Hampson(3) --- > Cappe replaces Hampson
Adames(6), Berti (1) --- > Amaya replaces Berti
Burger (5)
DLC (4)
Jazz (5), Edwards (6)
Sanchez (4)
Soler (2) --- > Dane/Burdick/Johnston/TBD replace Soler

Sandy (4), Eury (6+), Cabrera (5)
Luzardo (5), Garrett (5)
_______, Chargois (2), and pick two of Meyer (5), Bender (5), Brazoban (5), Soriano (6), Hoeing (6), Maldonado (6), Sixto(?), etc. They will churn righties.
Scott (3), Puk (3), Okert (3), Weathers (5)

This is roughly 17th out of 30 in payroll assuming it's a medium priced RHP reliever added to the top. They could just resign Moore here, and trade Puk or Okert for a similar CC right hander and the same thing is accomplished for call it $140m. Which is still 17th in payroll. This includes $16m in dead money to Garcia, Barnes, and Cueto I might add.


Basically this is a playoff contender and completely signed for 3 years and won't break the bank as Bell, Berti, Hampson, Chargois, Garcia, Barnes, and Cueto ($35m+) would come off 2024 to pay for raises in 2025 to Sandy, Sanchez, DLC, the lefty relievers, and other scale ups. Shit 2025 payroll would probably drop here. And then Soler and likely guys like DLC/Okert would come off in 2025 to help pay for 2026, etc. Then you'll have some decisions to make in 2027 but that is a LONG time from now, but practically, guys like N. Meyer and White may be ready by then. It's a sustainable high upside team for an under league average payroll and their best few position player prospects in upper farm should fit in nicely for the few bat defections coming.

This is the kind of vision I want to see, and then do better marketing where just cut ticket prices, cut beer prices, and pack the place for 2 years and then slowly scale back up the pricing. Just get butts in seats having a good time with a good product and good things will happen.


But what do I know. It's not my money. I'm sure they will impress us ::laugh track::. But I don't blame people until the franchise starts acting like a winner. See Florida Panthers who are drawing after massive multi year investments.

Fair enough. We are all allowed to have different viewpoints on how packed the stadium should be this last home stand but I just wanted to mention that ticket prices are extremely low compared to other MLB/pro sports franchises and you can buy beer every night for $5 and hot dogs for $3. Every single night.

[lou]

Fair enough. We are all allowed to have different viewpoints on how packed the stadium should be this last home stand but I just wanted to mention that ticket prices are extremely low compared to other MLB/pro sports franchises and you can buy beer every night for $5 and hot dogs for $3. Every single night.

That is really cheap so I get it. But its just doubling down on that more all over.

What about 1-2 years rent free or drastically reduced for retail outside stadium as an incentive to create an area people want to go? Loss leaders all over because what you are doing is not working.

[Namaste]

We really need the Giants to win this game. Master Mind Gabe Kapler lost his challenge in the 2nd inning last night.

[fish16]

That is really cheap so I get it. But its just doubling down on that more all over.

What about 1-2 years rent free or drastically reduced for retail outside stadium as an incentive to create an area people want to go? Loss leaders all over because what you are doing is not working.

Ive been saying for years they should take out the seats in the upper deck in right field and put a restaurant and bar area similar to the chophouse in the new braves stadium if you've ever been there. there is nothing to do outside the ballpark, and quite frankly it makes no sense for a restaurant or bar to open in the bottom floor of the parking garages because no one would go there outside of 81 days a year, and even those 81 days you likely wouldnt have a huge influx of people.

They rarely have many people in the outfield upper deck, you dont need all those seats. Create a balcony bar type place that people can hang out at before, during, and after the game.I would be much more likely to go to the games early if that is there. Without that, there is nothing to do pregame for people trying to beat the traffic and get there early. Whatever the old clevelander is now called sucks and is expensive as hell. If we reduced the capacity of the stadium from 37k to 32k, would it ever make a difference?

[fish16]

huge comeback by the twins over the reds. If the giants can beat the dbacks that would be huge for us.

[Namaste]

Ive been saying for years they should take out the seats in the upper deck in right field and put a restaurant and bar area similar to the chophouse in the new braves stadium if you've ever been there. there is nothing to do outside the ballpark, and quite frankly it makes no sense for a restaurant or bar to open in the bottom floor of the parking garages because no one would go there outside of 81 days a year, and even those 81 days you likely wouldnt have a huge influx of people.

They rarely have many people in the outfield upper deck, you dont need all those seats. Create a balcony bar type place that people can hang out at before, during, and after the game.I would be much more likely to go to the games early if that is there. Without that, there is nothing to do pregame for people trying to beat the traffic and get there early. Whatever the old clevelander is now called sucks and is expensive as hell.

All I can say is that this post is clearly authored by someone who very rarely goes to Marlins games.

There are consistently a lot of people pre-gaming at the Budweiser Bar/Auto Nation Deck and Recess and as far as the Home Run Porch goes, it’s the only section that’s open in the Upper Deck and also the cheapest ticket in the ballpark.

Please stop trying to be the authority on something that you’re clueless about.

[Todd]

Become good. Buy out all of the blocks surrounding the stadium and parking garages. Create a new area with a mix of retail, restaurants, and bars that is open year round. Profit?

[fish16]

All I can say is that this post is clearly authored by someone who very rarely goes to Marlins games.

There are consistently a lot of people pre-gaming at the Budweiser Bar/Auto Nation Deck and Recess and as far as the Home Run Porch goes, it’s the only section that’s open in the Upper Deck and also the cheapest ticket in the ballpark.

Please stop trying to be the authority on something that you’re clueless about.

Ive been to plenty of games at the stadium so fuck off. I lived in coral gables and brickell for 5 years and went to countless games and obviously have been to several games the last few years as well, just because im not dropping everything im doing and planning my day around leaving work early to drive in rush hour traffic for an hour to see a product that refuses to spend money on itself doesnt mean i havent been to the stadium.

there is no food at the budweiser bar. I didnt say no one goes there, i said recess sucks and it is overpriced and you dont have great views of the game. Open another part of the upper deck for cheap tickets and put a standing room only bar and restaurant among other attractions like the chophouse in atlanta. Every stadium in baseball has a bar. There is nothing special about the budweiser bar. You can get a $15 dollar beer at every ballpark. There is no need for 37k seats in a stadium that cant bring out 12k fans. Take out the seats in the upper deck in right field and put an actual attraction that people can go to before, during, and after games.

The seats in the lower deck in the OF and in the left field seats are $15 as opposed to the $12 seats in the upper deck in right field. It's not making or breaking someone's night or they can lower the ticket prices. The old fish tank seats in pro player were $12 in the early 2000's, people can afford the extra $3 for the other seats.

The ballpark has no attractions outside of a failed ex-clevelander and a single budweiser bar. None of those are bringing people out to the ballpark. They can build something in the upper deck in right field that would be an attraction. The 137 people who sit in those seats on most weekday game nights can buy seats at the new area or pay the extra $3 for tickets in the other lower bowl outfield seats. The stadium is not in a part of town where people are going to just come in on their way by. They need to make it a place people want to go. currently the stadium does not have that type of attraction. That might be different if the stadium was in downtown fort lauderdale or closer to the heart of downtown miami, but it's just not. People arent going to go out of their way to travel to little havana for a stadium with a single budweiser bar and an overpriced recess, they have to make it an attraction and give people a reason to go out there.