Offseason Discussion - Positions Players/Bench

[Fish and Chips]

Uggla staying could mean the Marlins start taking calls on Jorge Cantu, who as a fifth-year, arbitration-eligible player also is due a huge raise

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...-stay-put.html

orioles are in the market for a corner infielder, and felix pie is still for me

[Ramp]

in what world does Jorge Cantu bring in Felix Pie

[Fish and Chips]

pandora

[lou]

Well if they trade Cantu, why get Pie because Uggla is staying meaning CC stays in LF and BC is your 4th outfielder.

You get pitching from the O's if that is the trade partner.

[BigGameFish]

Barry Jackson's "Sports Buzz" section from today's Miami Herald:

The Marlins told agents they would first like to address middle relief -- they're also awaiting a decision from ballyhooed Cuban pitcher Aroldis Chapman -- before adding a left-handed bat to replace Philadelphia-bound Ross Gload. Among the free agents mentioned in informal talks: outfielder Jeremy Reed and infielder Adam Kennedy. But except for the Chapman bid, the Marlins have little payroll flexibility until Dan Uggla is dealt, and a trade isn't assured.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/co...y/1410990.html

Adam Kennedy blew up out of no where last season for the A's

[lou]

They aren't going to address middle relief with payroll. They are going to sign a half dozen retreads and hope they land the next Gardner/Miller/Nelson/Sanches. Then try to acquire more by trading Uggla/Cantu and Pinto elsewhere.

Absolutely need some sort of flexible left handed bat though. Kennedy probably earned a starting spot somewhere, Reed did a great Bonifacio impression (.605 OPS). I don't think either of these are good options for us.

Nothing not new here, but they should look at Randy Winn. He'd give them a solid 400 PA against right handers and would fit in perfectly. Like...

C - Baker/Paulino
1B - G. Sanchez/Cantu
2B - Coghlan
SS - Hanley
3B - Cantu/Jimenez (Still feel they move Uggla, as Cantu is cheaper and will bring at least Type B)
LF - Winn/Ross
CF - Maybin
RF - Ross/Carroll
Other B - Bonifacio, Helms

And if someone sucks, Morrison and Petersen in June, and trade potential July 31st.

[m26555]

The Marlins have no interest in trading Jorge Cantu to save money, even if they don't trade Dan Uggla before the season, tweets Clark Spencer of The Miami Herald. Yesterday we heard the team may "start taking calls" about Cantu if they can't unload Uggla.

MLBTR

[Fish and Chips]

retaining cantu and uggla, probably would require a 45mil+ payroll

C Baker
1B sanchez/Cantu
2nd Uggla
3B Cantu/Sanchez
SS Hanley
LF CC
CF Maybin
RF Ross

That is a nice lineup, and its better than i expected, goin into the offseason.

[lou]

retaining cantu and uggla, probably would require a 45mil+ payroll

It'll be very close.

C John Baker $415,000
1B Gaby Sanchez $405,000
2B Dan Uggla $7,500,000
3B Jorge Cantu $5,500,000
SS Hanley Ramirez $7,000,000
LF Chris Coghlan $410,000
CF Cameron Maybin $405,000
RF Cody Ross $4,200,000
B Emilio Bonifacio $415,000
B Wes Helms $950,000
B Ronny Paulino $1,100,000
B Brett Carroll $415,000
B Jorge Jimenez $405,000

SP Josh Johnson $4,500,000
SP Ricky Nolasco $3,800,000
SP Andrew Miller $2,000,000
SP Chris Volstad $415,000
SP Sean West $415,000
RP Leo Nunez $2,000,000
RP Dan Meyer $415,000
RP Brian Sanches $415,000
RP Burke Badenhop $415,000
RP Rick Vanden Hurk $415,000
RP Hunter Jones/Tank $410,000
RP Anibal Sanchez $1,200,000

$45,520,000

We have the 6 arbitration cases left. Those could all cumulatively be a million lower than my current estimations. Also, with the Marlins "conceding" Chapman, he won't come into payroll either.

Only thing I see above that would be changed financially is (because the names in the bullpen are all interchangeable), is maybe they get another veteran for the bench instead of keeping Jimenez around.

But I still think the most likely scenario is Uggla is traded before spring training, which cuts payroll to $38 million, and the team then spends some money on a veteran lefty 1B/LF to replace Gload.

[Bobbob1313]

I like the $45 million roster a lot. A whole lot.

[m26555]

I like the $45 million roster a lot. A whole lot.

Agreed. I see a 90-win team.

I think Sanchez should be in the starting rotation rather than the bullpen, though.

[Omar]

That starting rotation is iffy and the pen is without an anchor. Let's slow down before we dethrone the Yanks.

Too many questions with that roster regardless of the cap number.

[Party]

I'd have to see a lot out of Miller/West/Volstad before I can call this a 90 win team.

[m26555]

That starting rotation is iffy and the pen is without an anchor. Let's slow down before we dethrone the Yanks.

Too many questions with that roster regardless of the cap number.

Meh, we had essentially the same roster last season and won 87 games. I look at it this way: we contended for a playoff spot with Bonifacio starting for a very sizable portion of the season, Nolasco not being himself the first two months, Volstad shitting the bed completely, Sanchez missing a ton of time, and not having Coghlan in the lineup until mid-May (and he was awful the first two months).

If you want to look at it from the other side of the coin, you could say there is still a chance that Bonifacio gets considerable playing time this year, Nolasco is simply an inconsistent pitcher, Volstad just sucks, Sanchez will always find himself on the DL, and Coghlan might face the dreaded "sophomore slump."

Still, I am pretty convinced that Bonifacio has been relegated to a super-utility role at best, Nolasco is a good number two starter, Volstad will bounce back and at least have a respectable season, Sanchez will (fingers crossed) remain healthy and pitch as well as he is capable of (and I am very high on him), and Coghlan is just too disciplined of a hitter for his spectacular rookie season to have been a fluke.

As far as the bullpen is concerned, well, I think we can all pretty much agree that bullpens are fundamentally crapshoots, and that the Marlins always seem to scrap together a decent one. I mean, who really expected guys like Lee Gardner, Doug Waechter, Joe Nelson, Justin Miller, Dan Meyer, Brian Sanches, etc. to be integral relievers for us? I don't see any reason why we can't repeat that process again in 2010.

No one is saying we're the Yankees; I just think that, assuming we do in fact keep Uggla and Cantu, we're going to be a pretty damn good team.

[lou]

Meh, we had essentially the same roster last season and won 87 games......I just think that, assuming we do in fact keep Uggla and Cantu, we're going to be a pretty damn good team.

Sorry for cutting it up, but this is all I really intend to respond to.

-Marlins led baseball with a 30-20 one run record last year. This historically will fluctuate back to normal. The one area that really will effect this is if your bullpen is just awesome at pulling shit out, and really, we have not improved there. They are as 'good' as last year at a maximum.
-A positive 6 run differential, which means the team was basically .500 last year and we got a "lucky" 5-7 games. For comparison, Philly + 111, Atlanta + 94, St. Louis + 90, Col + 89, and the Dodgers + 169. I mean, this is a long way to go here. It was a fluke we finished ahead of Atlanta.

Yes, I'm into a lot else what you said. Only Coghlan really overachieved on the field last year so we can't expect anyone to really play worse and effect the bottom line. We had a dreadful run of starts from Volstad, Miller, West, Graham, Martinez, and other assholes. We had a dreadful performance from Bonifacio, and low ones from Hermida/Maybin in the outfield. We have a lot of hope in youth here things get better...

But like Festa said, it's about the SP. The offense is going to be above average for the NL with or without Uggla, but the pitching staff needs to give up at least 75 less runs in 2010 for us to approach a high 80s win total. We need two of Volstad, Miller, West, and Anibal to break out. I don't think it's impossible, but I can't just move them from a .500 team to a .550+ team until we see these pitchers establish themselves. And we're just going to ignore the harsh abuse Nolasco has faced the last two years, and JJ is still a year and a half off injury. Either of them go down, and it's literally over.

We're 4-5 players away I'd say. Yea, if Maybin, Volstad, Miller/West, and say Vanden Hurk in the pen, all come out balls awesome, that internally fixes itself real quick and this team starts looking pretty scary. But we can't just all assume they match their prospect status overnight and pencil in 90. 80? Sure. But 90 is def an optimistic angle right now.