2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Nick]

Samson, "Owners don't do it for the money, it's just fun to own a team!" That's why they went out of their way to spend as little money as possible on players when they owned our team, and hoodwinked the city of Miami into putting down most of the cash on the new ballpark. Because it's just fun!

[fish16]

Samson, "Owners don't do it for the money, it's just fun to own a team!" That's why they went out of their way to spend as little money as possible on players when they owned our team, and hoodwinked the city of Miami into putting down most of the cash on the new ballpark. Because it's just fun!

exactly. I actually like samson as a voice on his podcast and the lebatard show because he is the rare former executive who has no shot of ever getting a job running a team again so he is uniquely honest about old stories, but to have him as any kind of voice of truth about finance matters is like trump holding up a bible and talking about needing prayer in a photo op. its blatantly disingenuous and obviously a lie to con gullible people.

[Lee Stone]

Samson, "Owners don't do it for the money, it's just fun to own a team!" That's why they went out of their way to spend as little money as possible on players when they owned our team, and hoodwinked the city of Miami into putting down most of the cash on the new ballpark. Because it's just fun!

Did Loria really spend as little as possible on payroll? Not signing Chen would have eliminated a huge expense. Stanton was a monumental commitment.

The stadium deal was a real coup for Samson and hard to stomach for taxpayers ... but it was the governing body that approved it. Businesses look for government concessions all the time - it's the way America works at every level.

I'm fine with disagreement on any subject, as long as arguments are rational and reasonable.

[Nick]

Did Loria really spend as little as possible on payroll? Not signing Chen would have eliminated a huge expense. Stanton was a monumental commitment.

The stadium deal was a real coup for Samson and hard to stomach for taxpayers ... but it was the governing body that approved it. Businesses look for government concessions all the time - it's the way America works at every level.

I'm fine with disagreement on any subject, as long as arguments are rational and reasonable.

Loria specifically set those contracts up so that he had to pay as little as possible on those contracts before he skipped town. It was pretty obvious what he was doing from the get go. Chen's contract is kind of confusing, but Loria definitely ended up spending less than $10 million on that $80 million contract he signed him to. And isn't it crazy how Stanton's contract shot up $10 million a year the year after Loria sold the team? Loria ended up spending $30 million for the first 3 years of Stanton's 13 year $325 million contract. This was all by design, he did it over and over Delgado, Buerhle, Reyes, sign them to a big contract, but pay them very little before trading them when the contract starts calling for them actually making the money they signed the contract for.

[fish16]

Did Loria really spend as little as possible on payroll? Not signing Chen would have eliminated a huge expense. Stanton was a monumental commitment.

The stadium deal was a real coup for Samson and hard to stomach for taxpayers ... but it was the governing body that approved it. Businesses look for government concessions all the time - it's the way America works at every level.

I'm fine with disagreement on any subject, as long as arguments are rational and reasonable.

Loria wasnt spending nothing but he certainly operated as a minor league baseball roster. He spent money often times but his biggest issues was that he was a moron in that he had no clue whatsoever as to who the money should be spent on. That and he consistently meddled by negotiating with owners directly and consistently was taken advantage of because the owners knew he was a moron.

[Lee Stone]

Loria specifically set those contracts up so that he had to pay as little as possible on those contracts before he skipped town. It was pretty obvious what he was doing from the get go. Chen's contract is kind of confusing, but Loria definitely ended up spending less than $10 million on that $80 million contract he signed him to. And isn't it crazy how Stanton's contract shot up $10 million a year the year after Loria sold the team? Loria ended up spending $30 million for the first 3 years of Stanton's 13 year $325 million contract. This was all by design, he did it over and over Delgado, Buerhle, Reyes, sign them to a big contract, but pay them very little before trading them when the contract starts calling for them actually making the money they signed the contract for.

Yes, he was very shrewd about all that. In all fairness, I think Loria was one of the least wealthy team owners out there.

[fish16]

Yes, he was very shrewd about all that. In all fairness, I think Loria was one of the least wealthy team owners out there.

perhaps dont buy a billion dollar organization then?

[Lee Stone]

Loria wasnt spending nothing but he certainly operated as a minor league baseball roster. He spent money often times but his biggest issues was that he was a moron in that he had no clue whatsoever as to who the money should be spent on. That and he consistently meddled by negotiating with owners directly and consistently was taken advantage of because the owners knew he was a moron.

Agree with all that. Maybe his most foolish move of all was hiring his totaly unqualified son-in-law as the team's top executive.

[Nick]

Yes, he was very shrewd about all that. In all fairness, I think Loria was one of the least wealthy team owners out there.

Shrewd is one word for it, I have a couple others. It certainly wasn't a strategy that led to wins.

[Lee Stone]

The idea of purchasing a MLB franchise is not totally foreign to me, as mentioned in this January 1992 article in the Seattle Times: https://archive.seattletimes.com/arc...7&slug=1470716

I spent time talking to then-owner Jeff Smulyan, who was shopping the team at the time (he ultimately sold it to a Japanese owner). My concept was for Alaska to make the modest investment (a mere $100M of our $13B Permanent Fund at the time), rename the team North Pacific Mariners, add a few Japanese players (Ichiro arrived 8 years later!) and market the team in Japan as well as the Pacific Northwest.

I got as far as presenting the idea to the Alaska Legislature before a sale to a Nintendo executive was culminated.

[rmc523]

from MLBTR:

Major League Baseball is preparing yet another counter-offer to the Players Association after the MLBPA proposed an 89-game season with prorated salaries yesterday, commissioner Rob Manfred said minutes ago in an appearance on MLB Network (hat tip: Bill Shaikin of the L.A. Times, on Twitter). More encouragingly, Manfred emphatically stated: “We’re going to play baseball in 2020 — 100 percent.” The commissioner’s preference remains for a negotiated agreement between the league and union, but Manfred does have the ability to implement a shorter season (at fully prorated salaries) under the standing March agreement.

The details of the forthcoming proposal will be telling. Manfred acknowledged that it’ll be in the “players’ direction” but also suggested that he hopes the union will back down from its insistence on prorated pay.

[Maddawg]

This is from an SI article that was quoting a forbes piece. This idea that teams dont make money on a year to year basis is ridiculous and laughable. If they didnt make money on a year to year basis do you know how fucking quickly the owners would open their books?

I agree with Fish 16 (check the temperature of hell right about this time).

I'm concerned specifically about the Marlins. From what I have read, but correct me if I am wrong, that the incoming new owners (Sherman & Jeter, and partners) rejected a $50 million a year TV deal, and are now still trying to negotiate a new deal, which the present deal will run out after this season. Has that deal been taken off the table ? Because that I think will be the best deal they could possibly get with the coming of a very hard turn in the economy. Of the people claiming unemployment, those benefits will be running out soon. Of the people on unemployment, at least 75% of those are not just furloughed, but without a job to go back to. That means millions of Americans will be without most of their old disposable income to put into their baseball enjoyment. People think everyone will be watching on TV....yes and no....no proof but it just makes sense that this is going to prompt even more people than ever to cut their (cable) cords & take down the dishes. Maybe there would be an initial spike in viewership but that will dwindle as people cut the cords even more.....this will mean advertisers will also not be willing to pay as much for those ads....this is just the TV part of the team revenue. Also not negotiating the stadium naming rights is just another loss that was just looking dumb now.....look if you are being offered $5 or 6 million a year for those rights, and your holding out for $8 million....well that ain't gonna happen now...

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Marlins, and how this will affect their ability to sign a few nice contracts in 2021/2022 when they were expected to possibly "go all in to win" those years...... JMO....

[rmc523]

ESPN is reporting the new MLB proposal to the PA is a 70-75 game season and 80-85% of prorated salary, as well as expanded playoffs and a share of the playoff pool for players.

[fauowls44]

ESPN is reporting the new MLB proposal to the PA is a 70-75 game season and 80-85% of prorated salary, as well as expanded playoffs and a share of the playoff pool for players.

I'm sure that this will be rejected as well. The players just haven't budged off of their position and I can't imagine even 80-85% getting them to move...hope I am wrong.

[Namaste]

Gonna be a fun 55 game season with 100% pro-rated salaries