2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Nick]

Right or wrong, I think he's been/will be given a longer leash given the fact he was the main guy in return for Yelich, so they're going to try to get him right so they can say they got something out of the deal (I'm ignoring the other guys in the trade right now).

He's so far beyond a long leash at this point. Harrison is a younger better (if equally flawed) version of him right now. Harold Ramirez is actually younger than him and looked competent in the big leagues. Garrett Cooper looks like there is a middle of the order bat potentially if he could ever stay healthy. Jesus Sanchez is a better player right now, than Brinson. At some point you just gotta cut your losses and that time has come for Brinson, no matter what meaningless numbers he puts up in the spring.

[fish16]

Whether you want to believe in spring improvement or not, there’s no denying the difference in brinsons successful spring this year compared to previous good springs. This year he’s got 3 k’s so far in 27 abs while maintaining the slugging. Last year it was 18 in 54 abs and the year before it was 17 in 58 abs. You don’t have to believe in him but he has certainly earned the shot with his play in spring more than any other option for that last outfield starter spot

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Also I think Aaron northcradt and boxberger end up making the final roster and I think northcraft could become a lesser dominant version of nick anderson this year. Watching him this spring he looks super intriguing as a potential bullpen arm that we flip at the deadline

[rmc523]

He's so far beyond a long leash at this point. Harrison is a younger better (if equally flawed) version of him right now. Harold Ramirez is actually younger than him and looked competent in the big leagues. Garrett Cooper looks like there is a middle of the order bat potentially if he could ever stay healthy. Jesus Sanchez is a better player right now, than Brinson. At some point you just gotta cut your losses and that time has come for Brinson, no matter what meaningless numbers he puts up in the spring.

I'm not saying I disagree with you. But I think he gets one last shot and that's it. If he doesn't stick, he's gone.

[Erick]

You wanna potentially take away Isan's playing time (or AAA), but play Brinson every day. I can't fathom that thinking.

I mean, to be fair, Isan sucked last year too. He should be performing in Spring Training, not handed a spot.

[lou]

We shall see, but unless they send isan down to start the year I think the final roster ends up being

C- Alfaro/ cervelli or wallach for Alfaro if he starts the year in the dl
1b- cooper/Aguilar
2b- isan
Ss- rojas
3b- Anderson
Lf-Dickerson
Cf-villar
Rf- brinson
Reserves- backup c, Joyce, Ramirez, Aguilar, with kemp or berti taking the last spot

The roster has been pretty much set as this forever:

Alfaro, Cervelli
Aguilar, Cooper
Isan, Berti
Rojas
Anderson
Dickerson
Villar
Ramirez, Joyce (Cooper pitching in)

With the only battle being Sierra holding off Brinson/Wallach on the 40 man, or some surprise happens and Kemp or whoever makes the team. We knew this months ago.

Anyways, I am on team send-Brinson-to-AAA and let him mash down there to build his confidence as high as it can possible go for 1-3 months.

I'm also handing Isan a spot and believing in him, but it's a hard platoon and Berti gets all the lefties.

[fish16]

I can’t think of anything more short sighted or pointless than platooning isan with Jon fucking berti

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I also see brinson taking that last of spot and the last roster spot being battled by Ramirez/Joyce/berti

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This whole idea that career journeyman berti and Joyce and a guy who has a nice year but was nothing special and still has options in Harold Ramirez are guaranteed spots but brinson isn’t seems pretty foolish. There’s no point in sending brinson to aaa. By the time he would be ready so would sanchez and monte. You throw brinson out there for the first few months, let him sink or swim before the next group of outfield prospects come up, and then move on if he doesn’t or figure out the outfield future if he does.

[lou]

I can’t think of anything more short sighted or pointless than platooning isan with Jon fucking berti

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I also see brinson taking that last of spot and the last roster spot being battled by Ramirez/Joyce/berti

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This whole idea that career journeyman berti and Joyce and a guy who has a nice year but was nothing special and still has options in Harold Ramirez are guaranteed spots but brinson isn’t seems pretty foolish. There’s no point in sending brinson to aaa. By the time he would be ready so would sanchez and monte. You throw brinson out there for the first few months, let him sink or swim before the next group of outfield prospects come up, and then move on if he doesn’t or figure out the outfield future if he does.

Joyce has a guaranteed contract. There is no battle. They can also carry all 4 of those guys.

Maybe you should realize Berti hit the crap out of lefties last year (and was overall, very good) and Isan (as a lefty) had a major platoon split against RHP even if he struggled/SSS. Let's ease the transition and let him hit against more pitchers he will be more successful against.

Brinson needs everyday PA and he's not getting them on the team right now. Until that happens, everyday PA in AAA. I'd rather let Cooper/Ramirez sink or swim getting as many PA as possible before they are phased out, and Joyce hitting enough right handers to maybe get traded. Brinson will get PLENTY of PA if he deserves them. I don't think he deserves them day 1 with what they have.

I think your timeline with Sanchez is off too. Every scout thinks he is raw. He is further away and likely more of a 2021 guy (even if that is mid-april 2021 to deflect a year of service time ala Bryant and screw the super 2 status). Monte, I think is up by July unless he is truly horrible in AAA.

[fish16]

Joyce has a guaranteed contract. There is no battle. They can also carry all 4 of those guys.

Maybe you should realize Berti hit the crap out of lefties last year (and was overall, very good) and Isan (as a lefty) had a major platoon split against RHP even if he struggled/SSS. Let's ease the transition and let him hit against more pitchers he will be more successful against.

Brinson needs everyday PA and he's not getting them on the team right now. Until that happens, everyday PA in AAA. I'd rather let Cooper/Ramirez sink or swim getting as many PA as possible before they are phased out, and Joyce hitting enough right handers to maybe get traded. Brinson will get PLENTY of PA if he deserves them. I don't think he deserves them day 1 with what they have.

I think your timeline with Sanchez is off too. Every scout thinks he is raw. He is further away and likely more of a 2021 guy (even if that is mid-april 2021 to deflect a year of service time ala Bryant and screw the super 2 status). Monte, I think is up by July unless he is truly horrible in AAA.

isan diaz is your 2b of the future. im not saying you have to start him every single time vs lefties but to do a pure platoon where he doesnt ever start against lefties for career journeyman, 30 year old, jon berti with a career minor league OPS of .703 in 3000 minor league ab's is just completely missing the point of this season. Theres no denying berti had a very nice 2nd half last year but he's being incredibly overrated by the fanbase if you expect him to match that production again, especially in a part time role not getting every day ab's. Nothing in his minor league track record up to this point of his career at 30 years of age indicates that the second half of last year is the player berti will be at the major league level.

Let Isan play the vast majority of the time and have him learn on the fly. It's about priorities, it doesnt help evaluate our future to bench isan against lefties in favor of a guy who realistically doesnt have a long term future here in berti. Isan's not gonna learn to hit them by never playing against them.

The everyday ab's are absolutely there for Brinson. Ramirez is a nice potential 4th outfielder but again, i'd much rather just have brinson sink or swim. Him being in AAA where he has nothing to prove is a waste of his time and a waste of time in the major league season where we can see if he too sinks or swims. Not saying ramirez cant ever start but i'd go with brinson at least 2/3 of the time starting, hopefully in better positions than the 8th place in the lineup that he's been relegated to so often the last 2 years.

you're right my math was off by one on who can make it assuming they just cut kemp. I just think it's pointless not to throw the young guys out there everyday and just seeing what happens, especially guys like brinson who truly have nothing to prove by going down to AAA. I'd prefer Harold as the 4th OF, joyce as the go to pinch hitter against righties with the occasional start, and brinson starting every day for 2 months and seeing what happens. theres just no point sending him down to mash AAA pitching again.

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as far as sanchez i think he is behind monte in terms of readiness but i think he is more of a guy who will do what isan did last year. Come up in august/september and then fight for a starting spot next spring. I just think the next wave of outfielders is coming fast and they need to evaluate brinson and just have him prove something or give up on the experiment. Bleday wont be far behind sanchez too so just evaluate brinson and get it over with already. Nobody is benefitting by having him in AAA mashing talent that he has already proven to be able to mash.

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I just think this entire situation could be remedied by making rojas the super utility guy and letting villar start at SS with the occasional start elsewhere and then getting more ab's for ramirez and brinson. I love rojas as a clubhouse guy but as we've discussed before and I know we differ on but he's just not an everyday player.

[Nick]

"You let Brinson sink or swim". We did that the past 2 years, the kid drowned.

[fish16]

If i had my way it would be

C- Alfaro
1b- Cooper the vast majority of the time
2b- Diaz
SS- Villar
3b- anderson
LF- Dickerson
CF- Brinson
RF- Ramirez
Bench- Backup C, Aguilar, Berti, Joyce, Rojas. That's the lineup that best combines prioritizing evaluating prospects for the future along with getting your best bats in the lineup everyday. That's also a pretty fucking good and well rounded bench between speed guys, lefties, righties, power guys, good gloves, etc. That's a really good bench and you're not wasting young players potential experience for veterans with no long term shot at being here.

[Nick]

I mean, to be fair, Isan sucked last year too. He should be performing in Spring Training, not handed a spot.

Isan was fantastic in AAA last year. He should get every opportunity Brinson got. AKA 500 more ABs.

[fish16]

"You let Brinson sink or swim". We did that the past 2 years, the kid drowned.

he deserves one more chance just based on the investment, clear improvement this spring from stats to just what the guys around the team are saying about him, and just pure talent and physical tools that has obviously not shown itself at the major league level yet but is clearly there. It's not that he just deserves this spot so badly, it's just the other options are just retread veterans on a team that will lose at least 85-90 games. This season is not about putting veterans out there and getting close to 75 wins, it's about evaluating young players in the organization as much as humanly possible. Especially given the 40 man roster crunch that we have this year and that will be even worse next year. We need definitive answers on these players. You wont hurt the organiation long term by playing young guys who you have invested heavily in. You could by doing things like putting brinson in AAA in order to play 30+ year old veterans with absolutely 0 future here. 2 months of brinson for him to get one last shot is not going to make or break anything, but given his talent and possible improvement shown you could find another piece that might be here long term or another potential trade piece for the future.

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in what world does it make sense from the perspective of the future potential of our team and organization to give ab's to miguel rojas and guys like jon berti and matt joyce for a month or two than lewis brinson? If this was next year where we might realistically be thinking of a potential wild card run, maybe you just try to go with the safer veteran choice, but at this point in the rebuild with likely one more down year at least, giving guys like rojas or berti or joyce ab's over brinson for a month or two is just beyond short sighted

[Nick]

Jon Berti and Matt Joyce have no relevance to Lewis Brinson's situation. If Brinson is up he's taking ABs from Aguilar, Ramirez and Cooper, who yes all 3 of which I believe have more of a future with this ball club than Lewis Brinson. 3 guys whose combined MLB OPS is about .250 points higher than Brinson's. Miguel Rojas, whether you like it or not, has earned his spot, he's a consistent performer, who is holding down shortstop until Jazz is ready, which probably won't be too long. Jonathan Villar learning to play an adequate CF makes him an even more attractive trade piece, and hell maybe even makes him a candidate to be re-signed, as hard as that may be for Marlins fans to imagine.

The time is over where Brinson is handed things because he was once a top prospect. If he's going to get back to the big leagues it's got to be because he's absolutely destroying AAA.

[Erick]

This season should be about putting the best players on the field, not favoring one guy because we invested more in him. At some point, building a culture involves things like...winning as many games as possible. Miguel Rojas deserves to start.

[lou]

This season should be about putting the best players on the field, not favoring one guy because we invested more in him. At some point, building a culture involves things like...winning as many games as possible. Miguel Rojas deserves to start.

Definitely. And they are going to do that with Cervelli, Aguilar, Villar, Dickerson, Joyce, Yimi, and Kintzler brought in, with keeping Urena and Conley.

They are not throwing this in to the prospects. This is basically a third of the roster brought in/retained just to get to the all star break this year before they inevitably get replaced by Lewin, Monte, Brinson, Sixto, Neidert, Guzman, etc.