Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[tjfla]

U get more value for guys right after FA sign than u do if u wait till ST. 4 or 5 FA SP will sign then the teams that missed out will panic. The thing that helps Staily is he is cheap still

Ya Ziegler is expensive but him showing that he can close helps with that. U are right that they can hold off on trading him but remember if they are gonna rebuild its not like he will have tons of save chances and if they keep him and he bombs like LY then u stuck with him. Also 9 million for 1 year isnt bad when other closers/RP are wanting 30 million dollars.

Bearclaw is one who can improve his value by being the closer. I think they trade Ziegler for a low level prospect or 2 during Winter Meetings(maybe even as a throw in with Ozuna/Bour/Straily) and let Bearclaw close and then trade him at the deadline for a Tommy Kahnle type deal. Bearclaw and Prado to some playoff team for prospects

Ozuna deal will likely include a guy with $ like Prado,Ziegler,Tazawa. I could see Toronto being fine with getting a Ziegler

[rmc523]

Not an obsession and obviously depends on what has to be given up, I just think he is an incredible buy low opportunity. It is clear he has no place in the Rangers plans and the positions of SS/2b are hugely valuable positions if you can get really good production from those positions. I just think he has had horrible injury luck as well as needed time recovering from a few years off due to non degenerative injuries and he can be a great addition for a rebuilding team at a premium position. He was a #1 prospect in baseball that didnt drop in value due to poor performance, it was merely due to injuries. I think minor league numbers in his career give the case for a guy with a chance to be a great leadoff guy with great plate discipline and high OBP at a premium position. I think he will be traded for a really good immediate impact MLB player. Also, Rangers fans may have hated it but the fact that they didnt call him up and because of that resulted in an extra year of team control will give them a much bigger return when they inevitably trade him this offseason.

He might be nothing, but he has a chance this offseason to be a huge steal in a trade for whoever acquires him.

I normally wouldn't have said anything, but you bring him up any time we talk about trades. And if he's so good, why has he been stuck in the minors? You can get more for Bour.

I understand your point on Bour having more value than Profar, that's why I added in getting another pitching prospect on top of Profar. Im probably a little too high on him, i just think his minor league numbers show he has great plate discipline and its a chance to get a superstar talent in a buy low opportunity, which we never seem to do. Bour will 100% go to an AL team though.

As for Straily, I think we would be better off waiting and trading him closer to spring training or maybe even in spring training. Once the free agent market dries up we might be able to get better value for him, similar to the time period where we got him last year.

I think trading Bearclaw is a smart move too. Any reliever that you can get really good value for in this day and age of baseball I would heavily consider pulling the trigger, especially on a terrible team. Ziegler I just disagree that he has value. Isnt his contract for like 9 million next year? I think he is a guy we should make closer during the first half next year, hope he pitches well, and then deal him at the deadline when people foolishly look at him having 20 saves and try to get the best prospect haul you can get for him then. I just dont see him having much value during the offseason, or at least as much value as there could be at the deadline when relievers always seem to be traded at a premium.

Ziegler had a great second half, so clubs saw he still has it.....if he hadn't been on the DL at the deadline, he likely would've been gone already. Yes, relievers often get back a lot more at the deadline, but I think you can get something decent for him in the offseason, and take it. Then you don't have to worry about him not performing well like he did the first half of this year, and you clear his salary - whether that be all $9M or if you pay some of it to get better prospects (I know Loria never would do that but who knows what this group will do).

U get more value for guys right after FA sign than u do if u wait till ST. 4 or 5 FA SP will sign then the teams that missed out will panic. The thing that helps Staily is he is cheap still

Ya Ziegler is expensive but him showing that he can close helps with that. U are right that they can hold off on trading him but remember if they are gonna rebuild its not like he will have tons of save chances and if they keep him and he bombs like LY then u stuck with him. Also 9 million for 1 year isnt bad when other closers/RP are wanting 30 million dollars.

Bearclaw is one who can improve his value by being the closer. I think they trade Ziegler for a low level prospect or 2 during Winter Meetings(maybe even as a throw in with Ozuna/Bour/Straily) and let Bearclaw close and then trade him at the deadline for a Tommy Kahnle type deal. Bearclaw and Prado to some playoff team for prospects

Ozuna deal will likely include a guy with $ like Prado,Ziegler,Tazawa. I could see Toronto being fine with getting a Ziegler

So you want to lower Ozuna's value just to clear salary?

[fish16]

I normally wouldn't have said anything, but you bring him up any time we talk about trades. And if he's so good, why has he been stuck in the minors? You can get more for Bour.



Ziegler had a great second half, so clubs saw he still has it.....if he hadn't been on the DL at the deadline, he likely would've been gone already. Yes, relievers often get back a lot more at the deadline, but I think you can get something decent for him in the offseason, and take it. Then you don't have to worry about him not performing well like he did the first half of this year, and you clear his salary - whether that be all $9M or if you pay some of it to get better prospects (I know Loria never would do that but who knows what this group will do).



So you want to lower Ozuna's value just to clear salary?

He's been stuck in the minors because he lost nearly two years of time due to freak injuries. Also, the rangers had guys at 2b/SS, his natural positions, and continuously fucked with him in a consistent role. Also he didnt come back up in September because by doing that they allowed him to get another year of team control which increases his trade value tremendously.

[tjfla]

U wouldn't lower Ozuna's value. Well maybe if it was Prado included but teams like Toronto,St Louis would love another RP. So they lose some mid level prospect like Rowdy Tellez to get rid of a Tazawa?? I think Jeter would be fine with that. Ziegler isn't going to bring down Ozuna's value in fact might add another arm to the deal

Who knows where he will end up tho? Any team can make a bid for him as long as they got a Top 1-20 MLB prospect,another Top 100 MLB Prospect and 2 or 3 other mid level guys. I know 1 thing he will be bringing in ALOT more than Stanton

[fish16]

U wouldn't lower Ozuna's value. Well maybe if it was Prado included but teams like Toronto,St Louis would love another RP. So they lose some mid level prospect like Rowdy Tellez to get rid of a Tazawa?? I think Jeter would be fine with that. Ziegler isn't going to bring down Ozuna's value in fact might add another arm to the deal

I just dont see the need to lower your best asset's value for a contract that expires after next season. Its not like this is a deal with 3-4 more years like Chen. Not to mention we're trading Stanton so we'll have a really low payroll next year anyway. Maybe not lowering the value if it is Ziegler, but if you include tazawa you absolutely are.

[fish16]

Just getting back to profar real quick, Bour by himself would be too much for him, but id be all over a trade of Bearclaw for Profar. They had terrible relievers this year and could use bearclaw and if we could get a buy low former #1 prospect with 3 years left of team control for a 1 inning reliever id take that and run.

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And to add to my thinking regarding why i would be all over him, id look at it similar to the way the Cubs got arrieta a few years back. A once top prospect who needs a change of scenery and as a rebuilding team you go after any high potential everyday position player, especially at a premium position like 2b/SS.

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Also, especially for Ziegler either in the offseason or at the deadline, id love for the ownership/front office to try and endear itself to the fanbase in a trade where we eat the remainder of any expiring contract to get better prospects back. Especially if we trade stanton and get rid of most or all of his money, if they can get a really nice prospect just to eat the rest of the 2018 salary of Ziegler to get a much better haul for him that would be a great way to prove to the fanbase that while it sucks to dump these homegrown players in a rebuild, they are trying to rebuild this team the right way and willing to spend money to do so.

[fish16]

And if the braves have to end up dropping Maitan because of the scandal id love to see us go after him. That would be awesome.

[rmc523]

I think you could get more than that for Barraclough too.

[fish16]

I think you could get more than that for Barraclough too.

i think you guys overrate what you can get for relievers. obviously its just a matter of opinion, but Bearclaw is a 27 year old reliever with somewhat control issues that has a 1.29 WHIP as a reliever in 3 full years. Relievers are obviously inherently gonna get you less value, but especially a guy who isnt a shutdown reliever. I think bearclaw is a guy that most teams would love as a set up man but would view him as a closer as we viewed Ramos. Good, but erratic, and you can do much better in the best possible scenario. If you can get a possible star with 3 years left of team control at a premium position for an erratic, non star closer like Bearclaw you pull the trigger immediately. But i also just obviously rate relievers incredibly low and think that if you have quality relievers on a bad team you trade them for everyday players or starters any time you get the chance.

[tjfla]

Just getting back to profar real quick, Bour by himself would be too much for him, but id be all over a trade of Bearclaw for Profar. They had terrible relievers this year and could use bearclaw and if we could get a buy low former #1 prospect with 3 years left of team control for a 1 inning reliever id take that and run.

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And to add to my thinking regarding why i would be all over him, id look at it similar to the way the Cubs got arrieta a few years back. A once top prospect who needs a change of scenery and as a rebuilding team you go after any high potential everyday position player, especially at a premium position like 2b/SS.

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Also, especially for Ziegler either in the offseason or at the deadline, id love for the ownership/front office to try and endear itself to the fanbase in a trade where we eat the remainder of any expiring contract to get better prospects back. Especially if we trade stanton and get rid of most or all of his money, if they can get a really nice prospect just to eat the rest of the 2018 salary of Ziegler to get a much better haul for him that would be a great way to prove to the fanbase that while it sucks to dump these homegrown players in a rebuild, they are trying to rebuild this team the right way and willing to spend money to do so.

Bearclaw is also too much for Profar. Profar is the type of guy at this point that if he falls into your lap cool but doesn't have much value. If Texas wants to give u 1 or 2 prospects plus Profor sure but thats it. Its like us with Tyler Kolek-has zero value but if u threw him in a deal a team wouldn't say no because they envision what he could be if he corrects stuff

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And if the braves have to end up dropping Maitan because of the scandal id love to see us go after him. That would be awesome.

We can't afford him. We have 2 million left in our IFA Budget while 4 or 5 other teams have over 5 million(Stocked up for Otani)so whoever doesn't get Otani can just use that cash for Maitan

[fish16]

Many Miami Marlins players aren’t expecting to be back next year due to the expected rebuild/selloff, as was mentioned here in the Giancarlo Stanton interview over the weekend. But the key to the anticipated rebuild is probably Stanton himself.

While Jeter didn’t delve deeply into coming plans in his predictably murky opening news conference (earning some local pans), based on recent revenues and expenditures, and keeping in mind these aren’t the most deep-pocketed owners (they took nearly half a year to put together the money for the team, not that it’s easy), it’s a pretty safe assumption a retooling will be undertaken.



One current Marlins person said it figures that moving Stanton will almost be “imperative” in the process (so his suggestion to FanRag Sports that he’s willing to go if they want to rebuild is a plus for the incoming owners).

There’s rampant speculation in the clubhouse that even the more cost-effective vets, such as Marcell Ozuna, Christian Yelich and perhaps even J.T. Realmuto, could be on the block, as the team is expected to look to get even younger and move the timeline ahead a few years. But a Marlins person said he believed that Realmuto and Yelich are stars they least want to trade because of the time remaining before they can become free agents.

The Giants, Cardinals and Phillies were confirmed by sources as the “most aggressive” pursuers of Stanton this summer. Given Stanton’s remark to FanRag that he “won’t rebuild,” it’s time to take another look at which teams the Marlins could target for a trade.

While the $295 million remaining on Stanton’s deal will limit the prospect stash they’d get back, presumably the Marlins would want to receive significant pieces, even if it meant paying down the contract to a degree. A contract giveaway would be a PR nightmare. Stanton, of course, has aided their cause with his monster year (more on that in my awards picks), but he has a complete no-trade clause which complicates things for the team.

1. Cardinals. They have a need for a middle-of-the-order bat, and importantly, the perfect mix of prospects to make a deal. They even have talented young pitchers the Marlins need, with Alex Reyes (who may be untouchable), plus Jack Flaherty, Luke Weaver and Sandy Alcantara, who really opened people’s eyes this year.

The Cardinals have made clear publicly that a middle-of-the-order bat is a prime need. Stanton has said how much he wants to win, and the Cardinals are competitive, at the very least, every year, and people don’t believe he is just blowing smoke. They see winning as the key to any Stanton call, not geography.

Miami Marlins' Giancarlo Stanton (27) raises his bat after he struck out swinging for his last at bat during the ninth inning of a baseball game against the Atlanta Braves, Sunday, Oct. 1, 2017, in Miami. The Braves won 8-5. Stanton finished the season with 59 home runs. (AP Photo/Lynne Sladky)
(AP Photo/Lynne Sladky)

2. Phillies. They have the position players to make a deal, with depth in the middle of the infield and prospects at many positions, though they are quite a bit thinner in the pitching department. The Phillies seem loaded with spending loot thanks to a rich TV deal, and seem primed to go for it. However, they were an also-ran this year, may be at least a year away and can ill-afford to give up any pitching.

3. Giants. They also have a deep need for a run producer, and in their case, it’s obvious that it would need to be an outfielder. So Stanton would be a great fit from their perspective. There’s been some suggestion they don’t have the money, but the Giants always seem to find it (the same word was going around before they signed Barry Zito).

They don’t plan to rebuild, which might be reassuring to Stanton, but they were the second-worst team in baseball this year by record, so it may take a year or two to get back to their usual lofty perch. It can’t hurt that it’s California, as Stanton grew up in the San Fernando Valley in L.A., though winning is the key for Stanton.

4. Field. The Dodgers have the prospects and money coming off the books, and would presumably appeal to Stanton for their locale, current roster and future prospects.

The Angels have money coming off the books, too, but they are light on prospects, need money to lock up Mike Trout at some point and are seen as more likely to try to keep their own guy, Justin Upton, perhaps even if he should opt out.

The Yankees checked in, and they have the prospects, but they have Aaron Judge in right field and are determined to get below the $197 million luxury tax threshold.

The Red Sox (the most popular rumor in the Marlins’ clubhouse) didn’t adequately replace David Ortiz, have the money, the right ballpark and solid future prospects with star pieces in key spots.

https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...n-sweepstakes/

Heyman article. I dont really see a fit with the Phillies and id prefer a Cardinals trade for Ozuna, not Stanton. My preference out of any team would be the Red Sox. They have a need for a huge power bat and have 3 OF guys + Devers who could theoretically be a part of any trade. If we could get Devers out of a deal like that id be ecstatic. If Him or Benintendi or Betts are put on the table i take it and run immediately. Imagine getting a guy like Devers or Benintendi for Stanton and then getting a Vlad Jr or Bichette from Toronto for Ozuna.

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Also, if the yankees jump in and combine Stanton and Judge in the same lineup...... holy shit.

[Swifty]

Friend who has some contacts in the Mets FO tells me Marlins are adamant they won't eat any outgoing salary in trade.

[Namaste]

If they trade Stanton AND it’s a pure contract dump where we get some 27 year old pitching prospect I’m going to skip Opening Day for the first time in 20 years.

[tjfla]

Friend who has some contacts in the Mets FO tells me Marlins are adamant they won't eat any outgoing salary in trade.

What is his name? Phone Number? Email? These things are needed for sources and contacts!!!!

But ya he is right. They are willing to take back cash like Adrian Gonzalez's contract(1 year or so) but they won't send cash out

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https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...n-sweepstakes/

Heyman article. I dont really see a fit with the Phillies and id prefer a Cardinals trade for Ozuna, not Stanton. My preference out of any team would be the Red Sox. They have a need for a huge power bat and have 3 OF guys + Devers who could theoretically be a part of any trade. If we could get Devers out of a deal like that id be ecstatic. If Him or Benintendi or Betts are put on the table i take it and run immediately. Imagine getting a guy like Devers or Benintendi for Stanton and then getting a Vlad Jr or Bichette from Toronto for Ozuna.

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Also, if the yankees jump in and combine Stanton and Judge in the same lineup...... holy shit.

To add onto the article.

The Phillies would be the front runner however he has already told us he will NOT approve a trade to Philly. #1 He wants to go West and #2 He sees them as rebuilding. Some talk is Philly would take Stanton and even more salary for actual prospects

The Cards love Stanton but the contract is the issue. They actually prefer Ozuna however like Heyman said Reyes is probably untouchable which means the the centerpiece would be Jack Flaherty with 2 or 3 of Dakota Hudson,Sandy Alcantara,Carson Kelly,Harrison Bader and a lesser prospect or 2. Toronto would have centerpiece of Vlad Jr or Bichette with 2 or 3 of TJ Zeuch,Sean Reid-Foley,Anthony Alford,Richard Urena,Lourdes Gourriel and we would pick which we wanted more.

The Red Sox would be the dream team for us however would he stay on the East Coast and would Boston trade a Benintendi or Betts or a young ML player?

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They don't wanna trade Yelich or JT but like been saying if they get a Alfaro from Philly,Kelly from St Louis or Mejia from Cleveland they would consider trading him now. If they do trade Stanton to LA don't be surprised if they insist on Keibert Ruiz(19 yr old C in AA) and make him the Catcher of the Future with JT not gone till he is ready in 2 years

IF we do trade Yelich Philly will be on him big time. Like said with Stanton,they are willing to take more salary without asking for less. Name I heard was Volquez's contract but I would try to get them to take Chen!! HAHA. Could see Yelich and Volquez for prospects and ML guys like Alfaro,Cesar Hernandez(Cheap 2B lets us trade Dee that we could move eventually for other stuff)

If people wanna know why Mike Hill is still around,its because of all this. They are talking and looking at all options and want to move fast

[tjfla]

Also from Heyman

According to one Marlins player, the Cardinals reportedly expressed interest in Marcell Ozuna, Dee Gordon and Brad Ziegler this summer, with Ziegler’s name surfacing after Trevor Rosenthal was lost to Tommy John surgery in late August.

This is why when u see me mention Ozuna that I say they will likely put Ziegler in the deal with him. St Louis actually had interest in Ziegler,Tazawa(with cash) and Bearclaw

In other Marlins news, Heyman writes that Jeter is “serious” about bringing Yankees exec Gary Denbo over to the Miami front office — likely as the head of player development and scouting. Michael Hill is expected to maintain his duties as the team’s president of baseball operations

Mike Hill keeping his "job" it looks like. Jeff I mean Jeter makes the decisions while Mike Hill smiles and says Yes!! and goes to the meetings Least Denbo should help the minors out and not just sign 26 yr old A Ball players. Says Denbo contract has ran out yet which is why not here yet