Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[fish16]

Ok, so if we have to cut 50 million from the current team out of the current group of guys without trading stanton (which i realize we will likely do): T

Trade Ozuna (11M)
Trade Prado (13.5 m, assume we eat 3.5m, so 10 million)
Trade Dee (10.8)
Trade Ziegler and Tazawa (16 million total, assume we eat 6 million, so another10 million)
Bour (3.5 million)

That right there is a total of 44.8 million saved. We could also deal Dietrich for 3.8 million saved so we're around 48 million. So it's certainly doable, but if we're gonna trade everyone might as well just do a full rebuild.

Im still on the train of clear as much salary as we can from guys that have contracts that go past the end of next year. Bite the bullet or just get as much as you can for guys like Ziegler and Tazawa and then just wait until the end of next year when Volquez expires. If we trade Stanton, i'd love to see us eat as much money as possible for Ziegler and Tazawa and use the savings that we could get from a Stanton trade to take on some of their salary to get a better return and accelerate the rebuild.


BTW, Craig Mish, who has solid marlins sources, said on Twitter today that the marlins love Eduardo Rodriguez FWIW. He'd be a nice pitcher to add to a rebuild but he's not an ace guy. I'd love to do a trade of Stanton and maybe Bour because they need power and I think he would be a great fit for Fenway for Rodriguez, one of Benintendi, Betts, or Devers, and a lower level high ceiling prospect. and with the way Dombrowski operates and their need to upgrade the power in their lineup, I think that is certainly doable.

Mish's tweet was in reference to a Nick Cafardo article that said, in part, this:

From my discussions with Marlins officials — and I don’t know if this jibes with new baseball ops guru Derek Jeter — they would want an outfielder to replace Stanton and most likely it would be Andrew Benintendi. They would want a major league-ready, controllable pitcher (Drew Pomeranz or Eduardo Rodriguez). They would want another young pitching prospect (Jalen Beeks?).

Benintendi, Rodriguez, and a guy like Beeks for stanton alone, even if we have to eat a little bit of money, would be an incredible return relative to what would be expected with Stanton's contract.

Then just start dealing parts and getting as much young talent as possible. I would prefer Devers but if you can get Benintendi AND a solid starter like Rodriguez that would be a great haul.

- - - - - - - - - -

Then, if you find a way to get Vlad Jr and one of their better starters from the jays for Ozuna..... you'd have a really nice future without even trading Bour, Ziegler and/or Tazawa (if you eat their money), maybe Straily if you can get a good deal, and maybe even JT if you get a huge return, plus you'd still have guys like Prado and Dee.... that's a really nice start and you can do that by saving money. I'd even think you can get a fairly solid prospect for Dietrich too if you wanted.

Keep Yelich and you have a lineup including Vlad Jr., Yelich, Benintendi, JT if we keep him, Anderson, and whatever you get for the other guys and a rotation including Rodriguez, Urena, Straily if we keep him, Peters as a solid back end of the rotation guy, Conley (hopefully he can bounce back), and prospects like Richards, Garrett, a guy like Reid-Foley, Merandy Gonzalez, Rogers. That's not a bad start at all, and then you have a few years to invest heavily in the draft and IFA. This is certainly capable of a relatively quick rebuild (that being 2-3 years).


And to continue my tangent, if we do go full rebuild i want us to capitalize on some of our young, cost controlled bullpen arms given the volatility of bullpen arms. I'm talking a guy like Barraclough. Even if its for a prospect, im always in favor of trading a bullpen guy if you can get a guy the team scouts really like in the rotation or lineup. Im all about that even if it doesnt work out in the end. bullpen pieces are the last thing you should worry about in a full rebuild like this.

[fish16]

And what do you guys think is the value a guy like Bour has? I think we might be overestimating his value. He seems like a DH only kinda guy and hasnt shown he can stay healthy. He does have team control though. Weird situation for him. Very interested to see what his value is, but i think we end up trading him in a package with someone else.

[Namaste]

It's kinda hard to build a roster with a pitching staff this bad for $140 million

Fixed it for you.

- - - - - - - - - -

I would be very ok with Mattingly not being the manager next year.

If we’re “rebuilding” then let’s rebuild.

[fish16]

Fixed it for you.

- - - - - - - - - -

I would be very ok with Mattingly not being the manager next year.

If we’re “rebuilding” then let’s rebuild.

our lineup really was not anything special last year. we had the 11th most runs. the 10th best obp. the 14th best slugging with Stanton and Ozuna. and the 11th best OPS. as many good pieces as this lineup has, it really is not all that close to being anywhere near the level it needs to be to be close to being able to carry our offense post Jose. Granted, we can find guys at SS and 3b, but we would still have holes in literally our entire rotation and multiple fielding positions with no farm system depth at any position. this team needs a complete and utter gut and rebuild.

Even if we ran it back we would be horrible inefficient in terms of $/Win.

[fish16]

Spit balling another potential dodgers trade, i think a guy like Urias would be a target people are forgetting. I'd also love to get Austin Barnes back in the organization as our starting C and either trading JT or making him a 1b long term, with the preference being trading him. Barnes is really good and has like 5 more years of team control.

Maybe Urias, Mitchell White, and Barnes for Stanton? Id be great with that.

[rmc523]

A few more Marlins notes:

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/sp...179105686.html

[rmc523]

I can't read the article beyond the first paragraph, but apparently the Marlins have hired 'Turkey Search' to find a new President of Business Operations. I presume this was Samson's role?

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...s/Marlins.aspx

Here's a good article summing up what they're looking for for this position:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...017-story.html

Here is the full job ad itself:

http://turnkeysearch.com/2017/10/16/...ions-miami-fl/

JOB SUMMARY

The President of Business Operations will have overall responsibility for the Marlins’ Business Operations, including: finance, information technology, human resources, sales and marketing, ballpark and retail operations, and corporate partnerships and community outreach.

RESPONSIBILITIES

-Attract, develop and retain best-in-class employees across all departments.
-Lead by example; sustain a standard of excellence and a culture of inclusiveness and respect across the organization.
-Evaluate all current personnel and develop a three-year plan to improve capabilities across the organization with a mix of existing and prospective talent that mirrors the diversity of our community.
-Build an effective organizational structure.
-Oversee the implementation of effective review and compensation programs to promote mentorship, development, and succession planning.
-Build a fan friendly game day staff that delivers a safe and fun experience to our customers.
-Have overall profit and loss responsibility for the organization.
-Own the budgeting process and results, working across the organization to build annual and three-year budgets and operate the business within these plans.
-Sustainably grow revenues, including ticket sales, sponsorship, retail, concession and media.
-Manage expenses without compromising quality, especially as it relates to the fan experience.
-Build and sustain new sources of revenue from Marlins Park.
-Manage the capital expenditure budget with a focus on projects that improve the fan experience and achieve high returns on investment.
-Develop and implement data analytics and metrics to incent, measure and reward positive performance throughout the organization.
-Build strong relationships with all Marlins constituents, particularly those in the local community.
-Represent the team positively in interactions with fans, community leaders, South Florida residents and Major League Baseball.

COMPETENCIES

Personal:
-A high character individual with a stellar personal reputation in the community and at previous employers.
-A respect of and appreciation for the diversity inherent in the South Florida community.
-A high energy doer who embraces the opportunity to roll up his/her sleeves, work long hours, and get the job done.
-A team player who derives greater satisfaction from organizational success than from individual recognition.

Skills:
-Strong written and oral communication skills, along with the ability to work productively with all levels of the organization, including game day staff, administrative personnel, business unit managers, the Chief Executive Officer and the Board of Directors.
-An ability to develop relationships inside and outside of the organization, with the charisma necessary to represent the team in the community.
-A high degree of comfort with current information technology trends and a strong working knowledge of information technology tools including, in particular, data security.
-Fluency with data analytics, with the ability to support recommendations and decisions with facts.
-A working knowledge of social media tools and the ability to the implement leading-edge methods of fan engagement.

Experience and track record:
-Significant experience and demonstrated success across all functional areas, both revenue and cost focused, including finance, marketing, sales, information technology, business law and human resources.
-A demonstrated ability to attract, develop, manage and retain employees across different functional areas.
-A demonstrated ability to represent organizations positively, while being able to negotiate effective contracts on their behalf.

REQUIREMENTS

-Bachelor’s Degree in general business or other applicable field of study.
-Masters of Business Administration or other relevant advanced degree is a plus.
-15-20 years of business experience across a variety of disciplines.
-Sports experience, and baseball experience in particular, is a positive but not a requirement.

[Nick]

Somehow appropriate for replacing Samson.

[fish16]

Lol, its called turnkey, but i really wish it was called turkey.

- - - - - - - - - -

Also, that seems like a really strange job title to put out a classified style ad for. Maybe i just dont know how these things work though.

- - - - - - - - - -

Btw, the way Yasiel Puig is playing is exactly why you go get him when he could have been had for nothing last August. I know we had 3 OF's already when everyone was healthy, but that was such an obvious buy low move especially considering Stanton was considered to be out for most of the rest of the year anyways and we were still in it at the beginning of september, from what i remember.

Especially for a rebuilding type team you go get as much talent as you can and figure out what to do later. But alas, Puig will net a really big return this year separately if the Dodgers are able to get Stanton.

- - - - - - - - - -

Also, it really seems like a foregone conclusion that Stanton is gone going by the way the reports are coming out of the front office now. 90 million payroll and over 30 is already committed to 2 guys in Volquez and Chen who likely arent going to pitch next year. It really is a damn shame, but it's the right thing to do. It is unfair in my opinion, however, that they are going to get crucified by the fanbase down here when trading him is the right move all things considered.

[rmc523]

Lol, its called turnkey, but i really wish it was called turkey.

- - - - - - - - - -

Also, that seems like a really strange job title to put out a classified style ad for. Maybe i just dont know how these things work though.

- - - - - - - - - -

Btw, the way Yasiel Puig is playing is exactly why you go get him when he could have been had for nothing last August. I know we had 3 OF's already when everyone was healthy, but that was such an obvious buy low move especially considering Stanton was considered to be out for most of the rest of the year anyways and we were still in it at the beginning of september, from what i remember.

Especially for a rebuilding type team you go get as much talent as you can and figure out what to do later. But alas, Puig will net a really big return this year separately if the Dodgers are able to get Stanton.

- - - - - - - - - -

Also, it really seems like a foregone conclusion that Stanton is gone going by the way the reports are coming out of the front office now. 90 million payroll and over 30 is already committed to 2 guys in Volquez and Chen who likely arent going to pitch next year. It really is a damn shame, but it's the right thing to do. It is unfair in my opinion, however, that they are going to get crucified by the fanbase down here when trading him is the right move all things considered.

What sucks more is that they have 29M in the form of Volquez (13) /Ziegler (9) /Tazawa (7) coming off the books after this season, and that they can't eat that for a year in order to keep Stanton.

[fish16]

What sucks more is that they have 20M in the form of Volquez (13) /Ziegler (7) /Tazawa (6) coming off the books after this season, and that they can't eat that for a year in order to keep Stanton.

that is true too. IF we start at 140 right now though, there is no real way of getting to 90 without dealing him. No one is taking volquez or Chen, so lets not even get into that. Out of Ziegler and Tazawa, that is 16 million (9 and 7), not 13, but realistically no one is taking Tazawa unless we eat at least 4 million, and no one is gonna take on Ziegler's contract unless we eat at the very least like 3-4 million.

We can get rid of Gordon at 10, Prado is at 13.5 million for next year and 15 the year after, so realistically we would have to eat another 4 or 5 of that for next year. Then we can trade Bour at 3 million or so, Dietrich at 3, Ozuna at 11. It just doesnt make sense to keep Stanton, Yelich, and Realmuto and then completely blow up the rest of the team, nor does stanton want to do that. Plus we have a terrible farm system so we would be mediocre-bad still for at least another 2 years.

Blowing it up is the right call. If we are gonna eat money for a year, id rather it be in the form of eating money on guys like Ziegler and Tazawa and maximizing the return on them.

[Party]

The Loria hangover will be present in ways we cannot even imagine for years to come.

[Namaste]

What sucks more is that they have 29M in the form of Volquez (13) /Ziegler (9) /Tazawa (7) coming off the books after this season, and that they can't eat that for a year in order to keep Stanton.

Which is just ONE reason that the fan base will have every right to be annoyed as fuck over Stanton getting traded months after hitting 59 HR’s.

[fish16]

Which is just ONE reason that the fan base will have every right to be annoyed as fuck over Stanton getting traded months after hitting 59 HR’s.

Except that its not that easy. That is 29 million. You would have to cut another 21 million to get to their target payroll level, and even doing that isnt easy. Not to mention our remaining team would be flaming poop. Blowing it up is absolutely the right call. When they blow it up and build the team the right way and invest in the right areas, the next 2 years where we stink will be well worth it and we will actually have a consistent winner year in and year out.

I just dont get the rationale that we should keep this team together when theyve proven for years on end now that it is simply put a straight up mediocre team at the major league level with nothing at the minor league level.

[Namaste]

Except that its not that easy. That is 29 million. You would have to cut another 21 million to get to their target payroll level, and even doing that isnt easy. Not to mention our remaining team would be flaming poop. Blowing it up is absolutely the right call. When they blow it up and build the team the right way and invest in the right areas, the next 2 years where we stink will be well worth it and we will actually have a consistent winner year in and year out.

I just dont get the rationale that we should keep this team together when theyve proven for years on end now that it is simply put a straight up mediocre team at the major league level with nothing at the minor league level.

See, you say we’ll have a consistent winner year in and year out (after 2 down years) but that’s a VERY bold statement.



My problem with your stance on all of this is you make it sound like a FIRE SALE should be an easy pill to swallow for Marlins fans. Fuck that. It may be the right move (everyone on this forum knows that) but for Marlins fans it’s yet another train wreck that we have to stand on the side of the road and watch.

You’re being obtuse.