Marlins Sign Placido Polanco

[oakelmpine]

According to Stark,he gets another 125,000 for 100 and 125,000 if he plays 120 games(So possible 3 mil) AND we tried to get Olt,Castellanos,Gyorko before signing him

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/87...arlins-sources

Carlos Lee trade looks worse everyday

Which should invoke the discussion of who made that call ? Beinfest or Loria/Samson ? Did Jennings have any say so at that point ? Hill is just the token man it seems, does he have any say whatsoever ?
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Do SOMETHING to keep the 833 remaining fans.

What's wrong with those people ? What idiots to follow this team
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Shitty teams get vet guys hoping to trade them at the deadline for younger guys who they can rebuild with. The issue with us is that we won't do that,if Polanco hit 300 with 30 doubles by the trade deadline we will ask for a Top Prospect in return and nothing will happen or the FO will start talking extension .Houston signed Veras and when he has an 1.20 ERA at the deadline they will flip him for guys who could do something when they are good

The reason why Keppinger got that deal is because a Playoff contending team needs a utility guy and is willing to pay for 1(Starting at 3B now but eventually will play UT)

Huh ?

Dude lay off the booze it clouds your thinking.

They had to sign someone. Kouz was not plan A or B, more like Z and they knew it.

[Ramp]

Originally Posted by tjfla
Shitty teams get vet guys hoping to trade them at the deadline for younger guys who they can rebuild with. The issue with us is that we won't do that,if Polanco hit 300 with 30 doubles by the trade deadline we will ask for a Top Prospect in return and nothing will happen or the FO will start talking extension .Houston signed Veras and when he has an 1.20 ERA at the deadline they will flip him for guys who could do something when they are good

The reason why Keppinger got that deal is because a Playoff contending team needs a utility guy and is willing to pay for 1(Starting at 3B now but eventually will play UT)

Huh ?

Dude lay off the booze it clouds your thinking.

They had to sign someone. Kouz was not plan A or B, more like Z and they knew it.

I have no idea what your response (oakelguy) has to do with tj's post... what about tj's post confuses you there?
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So starting the season with an infield of Jemile Weeks, Cliff Pennington, Kurt Suzuki, Brandon Allen, and Eric Sogard was some kind of genius plan on Billy Beane's part? Did that show vision? Or did he get lucky because baseball is weird and somehow his team caught fire and made the playoffs? I'm not saying the Marlins are this year's A's or Orioles, just that the perception of those teams last offseason was pretty much what it is of the Marlins is right now.

Brandon Allen got 7 at bats. Eric Sogard got 102 at bats.

Jemile Weeks sucked, but he had a very good rookie season, so there was certainly vision from Beane's end there (.303/.340/.421 in 406 AB in 2011). It's not like Weeks is some shlub. He was a pretty good prospect, put up a big season and then hit a wall. These things happen.

The A's also went out and signed Yoenis Cespides (who I will admit, I didn't like the deal at the time, but I just think it's hard to give an unproven talent so much money) Josh Reddick, Jonny Gomes, and Seth Smith. Not to mention the fact that the A's pitching staff was loaded.

They also signed Bartolo Colon.

So yea, I'd say Beane had some sort of vision.

[fauowls44]

I have no idea what your response (oakelguy) has to do with tj's post... what about tj's post confuses you there?
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Brandon Allen got 7 at bats. Eric Sogard got 102 at bats.

Jemile Weeks sucked, but he had a very good rookie season, so there was certainly vision from Beane's end there (.303/.340/.421 in 406 AB in 2011). It's not like Weeks is some shlub. He was a pretty good prospect, put up a big season and then hit a wall. These things happen.

The A's also went out and signed Yoenis Cespides (who I will admit, I didn't like the deal at the time, but I just think it's hard to give an unproven talent so much money) Josh Reddick, Jonny Gomes, and Seth Smith. Not to mention the fact that the A's pitching staff was loaded.

They also signed Bartolo Colon.

So yea, I'd say Beane had some sort of vision.

They got Reddick by trading their closer and Gomes was signed off a bad year. They were filling out their roster (like us signing Pierre and Polanco). It's real easy to say last year was Beane having vision in hindsight, but I don't think they really had any intention of competing after trading the majority of their starting rotation.

My point was that if you would have looked that their lineup last offseason, you would be saying the same thing about them as you are saying now about the Marlins. Again, I'm not saying this as a fan of the Toronto trade (or mainly the reasons behind it)...just that you never know who is going to have a big year and change your perception of a lineup. Last offseason you wouldn't have said that getting Gomes, Reddick, and Smith were necessarily good things.

[Valid]

They got Reddick by trading their closer and Gomes was signed off a bad year. They were filling out their roster (like us signing Pierre and Polanco). It's real easy to say last year was Beane having vision in hindsight, but I don't think they really had any intention of competing after trading the majority of their starting rotation.

My point was that if you would have looked that their lineup last offseason, you would be saying the same thing about them as you are saying now about the Marlins. Again, I'm not saying this as a fan of the Toronto trade (or mainly the reasons behind it)...just that you never know who is going to have a big year and change your perception of a lineup. Last offseason you wouldn't have said that getting Gomes, Reddick, and Smith were necessarily good things.

Yeah. When you headline your offseason by getting Colon (a guy who only threw 100 innings once over the five years prior to '12), Gomes, Reddick, and Smith, I don't think you're expecting to win the division like the Athletics did last year. Beane is hardly a genius for acquiring a bunch of mediocre players who for some odd reason molded together incredibly well and put the A's in the playoffs.

If the Marlins would have signed players like that this offseason (and the funny thing is, they are), everyone here would be ripping the team non-stop (which they are). I really don't see much of a difference between what the Marlins are doing right now and what the Athletics did last year.

[emkayseven]

the difference is like lou said - upside. Gomes was 31. Smith was 29. Reddick was a 25 year old formerly highly heralded prospect that they traded a closer (almost always inherently replaceable) for.

Juan Pierre and Placido Polanco have no upside. They are at the end of their careers. Let's make fun of Kevin Kouzmanoff all we want, but he's 31 years old and a couple seasons removed from a 20 homer season. Maybe he sucks and that's the end of that experiment. Maybe he goes all Jorge Cantu on you and you suddenly have a chip you can trade for a mid to low level prospect. He's also club controlled, I believe, and on a minimum contract. Whereas with Polanco, you have a guy with the same upside and downside, except that he has much less marketability if he does actually end up as a "best case" scenario because he's 37, has a recent injury history, is making a couple million bucks, and will be a FA at year's end.

Do you really not see the difference between what the A's did and what the Marlins are doing? We are signing washed up players in possibly the last year of their major league career. The A's acquired players who once were good and had a bad year or two but were still young. There's a big difference.
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not to mention the fact that lou's whole point is that the ineptitude of the front office created a situation whereby in the second year of a new stadium people are excited about signing a washed up 37 year old because maybe we can flip him in July. This is battered wife syndrome. This is how the Marlins operated in 1998-2001, in 2006-2008. This isn't how it's supposed to be now.

[fauowls44]

the difference is like lou said - upside. Gomes was 31. Smith was 29. Reddick was a 25 year old formerly highly heralded prospect that they traded a closer (almost always inherently replaceable) for.

Juan Pierre and Placido Polanco have no upside. They are at the end of their careers. Let's make fun of Kevin Kouzmanoff all we want, but he's 31 years old and a couple seasons removed from a 20 homer season. Maybe he sucks and that's the end of that experiment. Maybe he goes all Jorge Cantu on you and you suddenly have a chip you can trade for a mid to low level prospect. He's also club controlled, I believe, and on a minimum contract. Whereas with Polanco, you have a guy with the same upside and downside, except that he has much less marketability if he does actually end up as a "best case" scenario because he's 37, has a recent injury history, and will be a FA at year's end.

Do you really not see the difference between what the A's did and what the Marlins are doing? We are signing washed up players in possibly the last year of their major league career. The A's acquired players who once were good and had a bad year or two but were still young. There's a big difference.
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not to mention the fact that lou's whole point is that the ineptitude of the front office created a situation whereby in the second year of a new stadium people are excited about signing a washed up 37 year old because maybe we can flip him in July. This is battered wife syndrome. This is how the Marlins operated in 1998-2001, in 2006-2008. This isn't how it's supposed to be now.

Come on. If you want to be angry because they weren't supposed to be operating like this any more that's fine...I'm right there with you. If you want to be angry at how poorly last year's team was put together (mostly by Loria), go ahead. But I don't get being angry over signing Pierre and Polanco to fill a need for a year. And let's not pretend this isn't the same thing the A's did last year. Gomes and Smith have the same upside as Ruggiano. The A's didn't sign them for their "upside". They signed them hoping to get a good season or two until your young players are ready...just like signing Pierre and Polanco. So Smith and Gomes are younger...who cares? The point of bringing them in is exactly the same. Maybe you get a good year or maybe you get a good half season and trade them...they aren't anyone's long-term solution to anything nor were they ever intended to be....the A's just happened to get really hot and make the playoffs.

And by the way, I think you are wrong that Polanco would have less value at the deadline because of his age. If he's good, he'll be more valuable to a contender than Kouz would be because of his career track record.
At this point, people are just complaining about things just to complain. There is nothing wrong with signing Pierre and Polanco until Yelich and Cox can play everyday in the majors.

[Namaste]

not to mention the fact that lou's whole point is that the ineptitude of the front office created a situation whereby in the second year of a new stadium people are excited about signing a washed up 37 year old because maybe we can flip him in July. This is battered wife syndrome. This is how the Marlins operated in 1998-2001, in 2006-2008. This isn't how it's supposed to be now.

First lou MELTED down
Then I MELTED down
Now MK7 in full MELTdown.

Bunch of crazy screaming people.

[Ramp]

Hard to argue that Seth Smith was some kind of bum. He has a career .267/.345/.470 line and that was after a .240/.333/.420 season.

Jonny Gomes is a pretty good hitter and absolutely crushes lefties (.284/.382/.512).

There was still upside with those 2 guys. Reddick has always been known for his power and finally got a chance to play everyday and it showed. And again, they brought in a big power bat in Cespides.

There was a vision there. It's hard to say Beinfest and Co have a clue what they're doing at this point. Clearly, the team is starting from scratch but it's hard to believe it's Giancarlo and a bunch of question marks just one season later

[Valid]

the difference is like lou said - upside. Gomes was 31. Smith was 29. Reddick was a 25 year old formerly highly heralded prospect that they traded a closer (almost always inherently replaceable) for.

Juan Pierre and Placido Polanco have no upside. They are at the end of their careers. Let's make fun of Kevin Kouzmanoff all we want, but he's 31 years old and a couple seasons removed from a 20 homer season. Maybe he sucks and that's the end of that experiment. Maybe he goes all Jorge Cantu on you and you suddenly have a chip you can trade for a mid to low level prospect. He's also club controlled, I believe, and on a minimum contract. Whereas with Polanco, you have a guy with the same upside and downside, except that he has much less marketability if he does actually end up as a "best case" scenario because he's 37, has a recent injury history, is making a couple million bucks, and will be a FA at year's end.

Do you really not see the difference between what the A's did and what the Marlins are doing? We are signing washed up players in possibly the last year of their major league career. The A's acquired players who once were good and had a bad year or two but were still young. There's a big difference.
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not to mention the fact that lou's whole point is that the ineptitude of the front office created a situation whereby in the second year of a new stadium people are excited about signing a washed up 37 year old because maybe we can flip him in July. This is battered wife syndrome. This is how the Marlins operated in 1998-2001, in 2006-2008. This isn't how it's supposed to be now.

What upside? Gomes was 31 and had a history of sucking. Smith was always fairly solid but you know damn well that if we would have signed him this offseason, you and nearly everyone else here would be bitching.

And LOL at suddenly trying to see a positive with Kouzmanoff. He's not "only" 31; he's 31. What players magically turn good at that age after sucking ever since coming into the league? I find it very hard to believe that you or anyone here would be happy going into the season with him as our starting 3B.

Cantu is a different story. He was once a good hitter before coming over here. Kouzmanoff was never that. He hit 23 homers back in '08. Big whoop. He OPSed .732 that year and has been declining ever since.

The Athletics got lucky. It's that simple. Funny thing is you guys mention Gomes, and he only had ONE postseason AB for Oakland this year. Apparently, Oakland wasn't even as enamored with him as some of you are.
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Hard to argue that Seth Smith was some kind of bum. He has a career .267/.345/.470 line and that was after a .240/.333/.420 season.

Jonny Gomes is a pretty good hitter and absolutely crushes lefties (.284/.382/.512).

There was still upside with those 2 guys. Reddick has always been known for his power and finally got a chance to play everyday and it showed. And again, they brought in a big power bat in Cespides.

There was a vision there. It's hard to say Beinfest and Co have a clue what they're doing at this point. Clearly, the team is starting from scratch but it's hard to believe it's Giancarlo and a bunch of question marks just one season later

The Marlins tried to get Cespedes. He was just too expensive (and you and basically everyone else here agreed with us not signing him because of the price), so I don't even think mentioning him is all that relevant here.

[emkayseven]

If you're going to use someone to take up ABs and keep a spot warm, at least pay someone with some upside the minimum to do so. I mean, instead of Pierre why the hell not stick Mattison out there? Or see if Kyle Jensen's power translates to the majors? You know the best case scenario with Pierre and Polanco, and in a lost season, shouldn't you at least go and find out the best case scenario for guys who could provide a better best case scenario? I mean, this is equivalent in my mind to these guys basically handing Pokey Reese the starting job before he wandered off into the abyss. Kyle Jensen could be Dan Uggla. We don't know. We do know who Juan Pierre is though. Since we're going to win 60 games this year shouldn't we just see?

[Valid]

If you're going to use someone to take up ABs and keep a spot warm, at least pay someone with some upside the minimum to do so. I mean, instead of Pierre why the hell not stick Mattison out there? Or see if Kyle Jensen's power translates to the majors? You know the best case scenario with Pierre and Polanco, and in a lost season, shouldn't you at least go and find out the best case scenario for guys who could provide a better best case scenario? I mean, this is equivalent in my mind to these guys basically handing Pokey Reese the starting job before he wandered off into the abyss. Kyle Jensen could be Dan Uggla. We don't know. We do know who Juan Pierre is though. Since we're going to win 60 games this year shouldn't we just see?

Sure, but are you now telling me you'd be satisfied Mattison and Jensen out there?

Come on, MK. You and me both know very well that you would complain no matter who the hell the Marlins throw out there at this point.

[Ramp]

Satisfied? No.

But we (or some of us) would rather see someone with upside that has a chance to be a piece of this team's future than someone like Pierre or Polanco out there. You're going to win 60-75 games either way, might as well go with the upside.

And mentioning Cespides has alot of validity. They got outbid by the A's. That's pathetic if you ask me.

[Valid]

Satisfied? No.

But we (or some of us) would rather see someone with upside that has a chance to be a piece of this team's future than someone like Pierre or Polanco out there. You're going to win 60-75 games either way, might as well go with the upside.

And mentioning Cespides has alot of validity. They got outbid by the A's. That's pathetic if you ask me.

You're contradicting yourself.

You just said earlier that you were against giving Cespedes the kind of money Oakland did. Now you're saying it's pathetic that the Marlins were outbid by them.

And I guess Kevin Kouzmanoff has a chance to be a piece of this team's future?

[Ramp]

What upside? Gomes was 31 and had a history of sucking. Smith was always fairly solid but you know damn well that if we would have signed him this offseason, you and nearly everyone else here would be bitching.

And LOL at suddenly trying to see a positive with Kouzmanoff. He's not "only" 31; he's 31. What players magically turn good at that age after sucking ever since coming into the league? I find it very hard to believe that you or anyone here would be happy going into the season with him as our starting 3B.

Cantu is a different story. He was once a good hitter before coming over here. Kouzmanoff was never that. He hit 23 homers back in '08. Big whoop. He OPSed .732 that year and has been declining ever since.

The Athletics got lucky. It's that simple. Funny thing is you guys mention Gomes, and he only had ONE postseason AB for Oakland this year. Apparently, Oakland wasn't even as enamored with him as some of you are.

Jonny Gomes had a .868 OPS this year. Mentioning his lack of post season at bats is pointless. The A's had a reason for doing it, nothing to do with how enamored they were with him. Also what history of sucking does Gomes have? One bad year in 2011? When he gets a good amount of at bats, he's performed.

Also, many members of this board have liked Seth Smith for a long time. So there's a good chance we would have been happy with that signing.
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You're contradicting yourself.

You just said earlier that you were against giving Cespedes the kind of money Oakland did. Now you're saying it's pathetic that the Marlins were outbid by them.

And I guess Kevin Kouzmanoff has a chance to be a piece of this team's future?

I was against them giving Cespides that money. Yes. I also think it is pathetic the Marlins were outbid on someone like Cespides, by a team like Oakland. No contradiction there.

I don't think Kouz has a chance to be part of this team's future. I'd rather see Zack Cox out there.

[Valid]

Jonny Gomes had a .868 OPS this year. Mentioning his lack of post season at bats is pointless. The A's had a reason for doing it, nothing to do with how enamored they were with him. Also what history of sucking does Gomes have? One bad year in 2011? When he gets a good amount of at bats, he's performed.

Also, many members of this board have liked Seth Smith for a long time. So there's a good chance we would have been happy with that signing.

So what was the A's reason for doing it then? Gomes OPSed .714 in 2011 and .758 in 2010. His career OPS is .789. He has been around since 2003, and only three times has he OPSed .800. For someone who cannot play a lick of defense, that isn't very good. You're gonna tell me he didn't play over his head last year?
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I was against them giving Cespides that money. Yes. I also think it is pathetic the Marlins were outbid on someone like Cespides, by a team like Oakland. No contradiction there.

I don't think Kouz has a chance to be part of this team's future. I'd rather see Zack Cox out there.

So you were against giving Cespedes that money, but you're upset that we got outbid for him? Got it. Also, the Marlins weren't the only team Oakland outbid for him, by the way.