What is the Appropriate Amount of Time for Marlins Fans to Vent?

[lou]

I'll do it, Daft.

jay576 doesn't know that we got back nothing of quality.

Don't even know what he's doing with the good quantity thing.

Also, can we not forget that while we gave up 5 players, Bonifacio is a nice bench player, almost everyone was of the opinion that Buck was the worst thing ever, JJ was often hurt and seldom (lately) as good as we thought he was capable of and Buehrle shortens game times.

The players won't all be awesome, because they're not all that good but a couple are promising and others may be serviceable major leaguers. It's the nature of a trade for prospects.

They'll be interesting to watch until we realize they all suck.

I don't disagree with any of this, but the problem is Reyes. Both on not reinvesting into anything longterm and how he still easily fit in longterm plans for contending in 2 years. You can't really overpay someone when 18 guys on the team will be club controlled in 2015. Also, it shows Stanton/fans they are not completely money grubbers. The others can be explained away, not him.

[Mainge]

So, he's just going to ignore the "Loria lover" questions, right?

Think I could get that on a pizza?

Loria Lovers! pizza with bits of dollar bills, gold, and broken hearts as toppings.

[Beef]

Yeah.

The reason we didn't get prospect 1-400 in Toronto's system is because those other assets we sent over weren't as incredible as a lot of people here suddenly want to imagine. (not for you lou, for someone like jay who thought we should have at least gotten enormous "quantity" for what we gave up)

[Erick]

Yeah.

The reason we didn't get prospect 1-400 in Toronto's system is because those other assets we sent over weren't as incredible as a lot of people here suddenly want to imagine. (not for you lou, for someone like jay who thought we should have at least gotten enormous "quantity" for what we gave up)

As it is, we got Toronto's 2nd, 5th, and 8th best prospects; a farm system considered to be one of the best in baseball.

+ Henderson Alvarez who doesn't make the list because he no longer qualifies and Escobar who's a proven big-leaguer.

But yeah, apparently, that's automatically "nothing of quality."

[emkayseven]

You forgot Jeff Mathis is going to become the next You forgot Poland meme

[Jay]

Break down the trade anyway you want and it sucks overall.
Mathis for Buck. Great.
Nicolino for Buehlre. Great.
Hechavarria for Boner. Great.
Escobar, Alvarez, Marisnick, and Desclafani for Reyes and JJ. Sucks.

Alvarez sucks. Escobar is a cancer. Marisnick has major flaws with his swing.

[Erick]

Break down the trade anyway you want and it sucks overall.
Mathis for Buck. Great.
Nicolino for Buehlre. Great.
Hechavarria for Boner. Great.
Escobar, Alvarez, Marisnick, and Desclafani for Reyes and JJ. Sucks.

Alvarez sucks. Escobar is a cancer. Marisnick has major flaws with his swing.

Escobar is a "cancer" (like if you know him, personally) with a career .282/.353/.390 line. With + defense and baserunning. So, you know, he's pretty solid at things that are actually important.

Again, give Alvarez and Marisnick time before declaring what they are. It's rather impossible to know what they'll become.

[Bobbob1313]

I was pretty meh on Alvarez, but seeing someone declare him sucky is going to make me like him.

[Jay]

Escobar being a cancer significantly lowers his value because no one wants him. And if the reports of him being shopped are true it shows we don't see value in him or that the organizational philosophy is pay the absolute minimum.

What makes Alvarez even remotely interesting? I mean the guy can log innings. Maybe this past year is not an indication of future performance but he was walking batters significantly more often and striking out batters significantly less often than he did in the minors. He just doesn't project to be anything better than a number 5 and good teams that are built around good pitching and defense don't win with a number 5.

I'd love to see Marisnick succeed but when it comes to fixing players, the marlins are just flat out bad. It's more of a statement about how we develop players. I see it as a similar situation as Maybin; he debuts too early and then everyone is calling for his head for sucking and then he gets shipped out before reaching arbitration.

[Bobbob1313]

What makes him "even remotely interesting?" He's 22 years old, lives in the mid-90's with his fastball, doesn't walk people and gets ton of groundballs. If he can get his K-rate back up to 6 per nine like he was in the minors, he can be a really good mid-rotation starter. I would imagine he won't be giving up home runs on 1/5 of his flyballs moving forward. Especially when he gets to play half of his home games in a huge park, as opposed to a home park that increases home runs by 18 percent over the last three seasons.
--------------------
Like, I don't think he's going to be great. But you're talking about him as if there's not a single redeemable quality to him because he had a poor rookie season in an extreme hitter's park in the AL East.

[lou]

Didn't Alvarez have the 8th highest average fastball speed last year? It's something way high. I just don't understand how he isn't striking people out with the control and raw stuff. He's 22. He's worth a gamble. I think he of all of them will be better than expected.

[Bobbob1313]

Also, I don't really know why people are totally shitting on Marisnick. He was bad in his first stint in low-A, but then was really quite good in his second. Then he was pretty solid in his first stint in high-A before sucking at AA as a 21-year-old.

He hasn't been old for any level, and he's basically had 390 poor plate appearances across two levels in his first time seeing them. It doesn't look like there is a ton in the way of inflated offensive numbers due to a weird environment.

In a vacuum, these aren't bad players.

[lou]

I think Turner-Alvarez will be a good 3-4 for years. Problem is where they getting a 1-2? Fernandez is it for the top end. Everyone else (Heaney, Nicolino, Eovaldi) profile as 4s.

[Bobbob1313]

Didn't Alvarez have the 8th highest average fastball speed last year?

9th.

[HUGG]

I think it's interesting that Hechavarria's bat wasn't as universally hated coming into 2012.

And then he had his best offensive season.

And now everyone hates it.

He had an 8% walk rate and an 18% K rate in AAA last season. If he can come close to those in the major league level, he should hit enough to at least be decent with his defense.