2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[Nick]

This ownership group is just there.

They make little effort to sign free agents. They make little effort to build up the farm system through the draft or international signings. They make little effort to lock up young players to team friendly deals.

They basically operate to spend as little as possible so they can funnel money into Sherman's pocket.

I am tired of the Marlins essentially being used as a money laundering operation for cash poor owners.

And Sherman is one of the few people who could make Loria look not that bad.

This is probably the most I've ever agreed with a Todd post. Although, I wouldn't say Sherman makes Loria look not that bad. Both refused to spend money, Sherman does it as quietly as possible, Loria and Samson were in your face with it. I'm not sure which is worse. I guess you could say Loria made more effort, but let's remember those efforts usually ended in disaster due to incompetence.

[fish16]

This is probably the most I've ever agreed with a Todd post. Although, I wouldn't say Sherman makes Loria look not that bad. Both refused to spend money, Sherman does it as quietly as possible, Loria and Samson were in your face with it. I'm not sure which is worse. I guess you could say Loria made more effort, but let's remember those efforts usually ended in disaster due to incompetence.

as sad as it is, loria was better because he at least went for it at times. He was beyond inept and incompetent at making the right moves when going for it, but at least the effort was there at times. Sherman just doesnt give a flying fuck

[lou]

Bruce Sherman has brought us all together. He is a unifying force.

[lou]

Here's the thing- they should have 2025 circled. But you can be realistic that 2025 is the year to compete and also not completely punt on this offseason for 2024. Those arent mutually exclusive propositions. Signing guys to 1 year deals this offseason can also help for 2025 if we fall out of it at the deadline. Doing nothing is a disgrace.

Also this ignores that they should be spending $130-140m once a contending window opens (which it has). And that's a FLOOR.


Effectively, that is outright signing Montgomery/Snell, Rosario, Lorenzen, and Duvall, and only Montgomery/Snell is a multi-year deal so that helps a little now or are really good role players for falling out moves, and then Luzardo and Arraez get shipped out after 2024 for three top 100 prospects, etc. and that money is a wash in 2025 with Montgomery/Snell already signed for the same effective amount. But you have them.

He's cheap. It's a disgrace. Drop those 4 dudes on the team in 2024 and you have this for like $135m. That's 19th(!!!) in baseball.

Fortes, Bethancourt
Arraez, Bell
Rosario, Edwards (Arraez)
Berti (Rosario)
Burger, Brujan
Duvall, DLC (Edwards, Brujan)
Jazz (Duvall)
Sanchez (Duvall)

Luzardo, Montgomery/Snell, Eury, Garrett, Lorenzen
Bulks ---- > Cabrera, Rogers, Puk
Scott, Nardi, Chargois, Okert, Soriano/Brazoban
w/ Meyer and Bender coming



And in 2025 you have this for roughly $89m, so now you have upwards of $40m(!!!) to spend in free agency again + the extremely notable omissions here of Arraez and Luzardo so plug in three of the seven blank lines with the total killers you'd get back in trades for them which are presumably club controlled guys, so it's still $40m+ to spend on 4 players in free agency. Where then I say hell yea to that with Danny Jansen a free agent, two of those expenditures can be fancy 1 year luxury RP, and the last one is a 1B/OF type similar to a Duvall hired gun for a year. I'd project Luzardo goes for a SS + 1B/OF and Arraez for a young 3B here sort of thing so those FA dollars can be focused on frankly a mid-tier FA like Jansen and 1 year guys at position that typically has 1 year guys to then reassess the next year. Parenthesis are next man up in the pipeline in case any of them work out internally.

_____, Fortes (Banfield)
Burger, _____ (Berry)
Edwards, Brujan
______, Berti (Amaya)
______ (Cappe)
______, DLC (Myers)
Jazz
Sanchez

Sandy, Montgomery/Snell, Eury, Garrett, Max
Bulks ---- > Cabrera, Rogers, Puk
____, Nardi, Bender, Soriano, _____ (Maldonado, Fulton)

Dead money - Garcia


I'll stop, but trust me 2026 and 2027 hypothetical payroll is completely fine with Sandy and Montgomery/Snell without Luzardo and Arrarez around and Bruce committing to 19th cheapest payroll territory.


All of this is so unfathomably cheap in the grand scheme of things with some just minor maneuvering, and even more so coming off a ferociously cheap 2018-2022. Snell/Montgomery is that luxury signing which trickles it all down so they can afford to "get rid of guys a year early" like the Rays always do (ala Glasnow). That 2024 team would extremely likely project as the # 3/4 team in the national league without Sandy day 1 with huge upside with the arms + Jazz/Arraez/Burger/Sanchez having real breakout potential. At the 19th worst payroll.

It's mind boggling. Happy Friday. Just mentioning it's even worse than your comment and we're all in accord here.

[rmc523]

Here's the thing- they should have 2025 circled. But you can be realistic that 2025 is the year to compete and also not completely punt on this offseason for 2024. Those arent mutually exclusive propositions. Signing guys to 1 year deals this offseason can also help for 2025 if we fall out of it at the deadline. Doing nothing is a disgrace.

This. You can still make moves that benefit 2024 (and ideally 2025) without having an “all in” effort. The problem is, this team still has a few critical holes - it’s not like it’s one weak spot and they have a specific target available next year to fix that last problem - they keep hoping to solve every single problem in a single year and then do nothing.

[fish16]

on a positive note- Mish made a comment on twitter that he believes we will sign one of the FA SS. who knows whether that is someone minor like mondesi or a bigger name like anderson, it's at least something. I would love to see us sign Anderson to the exact same contract we signed cueto to last offseason with 2 years and a second year team option with a couple million buyout. That plus a better corner OF than DLC and 1 more middle reliever/set up man and i will give the offseason a pass.

Anderson might just be a complete train wreck, but you have got to make low risk moves to drastically raise the ceiling on this team, and that would be one of them. He was flat out awful last year, but he had 4 straight full years prior to that of over .300 average, and 3 of 4 years above .800 OPS and above a 4+ WAR level over a full season (because it includes the COVID year). If the other option is berti, its a no brainer.

For all the talk of how the rays operate, they have in recent years signed good FA's to short term deals (Morton, Kluber, etc) so it wouldnt be unheard of. I think this team can compete for a wild card spot if we do that. But without it we will be just above or just below .500.

[fish16]

i also think it would be pretty fucking funny if garcia has one of his good years and makes a huge impact. A year ago at this time we were all down on soler so wouldnt be the craziest thing. He's had a number of good years in his past. It is desperately needed because they will under no circumstances just get rid of him for nothing. Maybe there is a swap of salaries that makes sense for another team. I would certainly hope we dont attach a prospect to get rid of his salary when we have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball as it is.

[Namaste]

Peyton Burdick DFA’d. It was time. We acquired a RHP from Mainers for cash considerations

[lou]

on a positive note- Mish made a comment on twitter that he believes we will sign one of the FA SS. who knows whether that is someone minor like mondesi or a bigger name like anderson, it's at least something. I would love to see us sign Anderson to the exact same contract we signed cueto to last offseason with 2 years and a second year team option with a couple million buyout. That plus a better corner OF than DLC and 1 more middle reliever/set up man and i will give the offseason a pass.

Anderson might just be a complete train wreck, but you have got to make low risk moves to drastically raise the ceiling on this team, and that would be one of them. He was flat out awful last year, but he had 4 straight full years prior to that of over .300 average, and 3 of 4 years above .800 OPS and above a 4+ WAR level over a full season (because it includes the COVID year). If the other option is berti, its a no brainer.

For all the talk of how the rays operate, they have in recent years signed good FA's to short term deals (Morton, Kluber, etc) so it wouldnt be unheard of. I think this team can compete for a wild card spot if we do that. But without it we will be just above or just below .500.

Eflin!

[lou]

i also think it would be pretty fucking funny if garcia has one of his good years and makes a huge impact. A year ago at this time we were all down on soler so wouldnt be the craziest thing. He's had a number of good years in his past. It is desperately needed because they will under no circumstances just get rid of him for nothing. Maybe there is a swap of salaries that makes sense for another team. I would certainly hope we dont attach a prospect to get rid of his salary when we have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball as it is.

Corbin is 1/$35m FWIW. Garcia is 2/$29m.

[lou]

Peyton Burdick DFA’d. It was time. We acquired a RHP from Mainers for cash considerations

"McCaughan is a nice upper-level spot start option with a funky, slingin’ three-quarters delivery. He works east and west with sink and tail, and will try to run his fastball in on the hands of right-handed hitters, then bend his slider away from them. His high/arm-side approach with the fastball makes him fly-ball prone even though it’s a sinker. The PCL hitting environment is particularly unkind to guys like this, so don’t read too much into McCaughan’s ERA with Tacoma. His slot helps his slider play against righties, while consistent feel for changeup location thwarts lefties. It isn’t a sexy mix, but McCaughan can really pitch, and he’s a great fit as an up/down starter who’ll come up and throw strikes when you need him to." FG


Screaming RP conversion - weird delivery, max effort, funky offspeed. This is a good gamble on paper.


Sad Burdick didn't make it. We liked that pick when it happened.

[sports24/7]

on a positive note- Mish made a comment on twitter that he believes we will sign one of the FA SS. who knows whether that is someone minor like mondesi or a bigger name like anderson, it's at least something. I would love to see us sign Anderson to the exact same contract we signed cueto to last offseason with 2 years and a second year team option with a couple million buyout. That plus a better corner OF than DLC and 1 more middle reliever/set up man and i will give the offseason a pass.

Anderson might just be a complete train wreck, but you have got to make low risk moves to drastically raise the ceiling on this team, and that would be one of them. He was flat out awful last year, but he had 4 straight full years prior to that of over .300 average, and 3 of 4 years above .800 OPS and above a 4+ WAR level over a full season (because it includes the COVID year). If the other option is berti, its a no brainer.

For all the talk of how the rays operate, they have in recent years signed good FA's to short term deals (Morton, Kluber, etc) so it wouldnt be unheard of. I think this team can compete for a wild card spot if we do that. But without it we will be just above or just below .500.

I believe the last thing he said about it was “Looks like they will end up with one of the FA SS but beyond that I haven’t heard much. No guarantee on that either.” So even that statement isn’t all that encouraging, lol.

[Namaste]

A Marlins content Twitter account I normally find slightly annoying posted this in reference to the Carribean Series games played at loan depot the last 2 weeks which drew tons of fans and he’s spot on *

”How was this possible with all the traffic issues, no parking, expensive beers, stadium located in hell, no one wearing teal, AAA talent on the field, unsociable start time, better things to be doing on a Friday?”


*fish16 will rage at this post

[Nick]

It’s simple, the stench of Marlins ownership is not
on those games.

[Namaste]

It’s simple, the stench of Marlins ownership is not
on those games.

“Marlins ownership stinks” is a totally valid reason for people to not attend games.

But I hear (quite often) all of those other reasons listed above as to why no one goes to games.