2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

we're supposedly interested in gio urshela. Not a bad player if he can play some SS, but idk if he can. Missed the 2nd half last year but some pretty decent numbers over the last 4 or so years.

[lou]

lol, they arent waiting out any fucking market. they are being cheap and doing nothing because they have an owner who has no business owning a professional sports team, nor does he have any vision to lock up players he already has early to save money long term

They signed Cueto in late January and Soler in March. This is exactly what this ownership group does.


But you're right Bruce shouldn't be an owner and there is something incredibly wrong with not buying out their arbitration eligible players. But I suppose their ultimate plan could be moving Luzardo and Arraez for a ton of stuff eventually and build around a Sandy/Eury/Cabrera/Garrett/Rogers/Max rotation.

What's better

Getting 3 top 100 prospects and other fun stuff for Luzardo and Arraez within the next 12 months and signing Adames in the offseason for 5-6 years. This could be something like Mayo, Kjerstad, and Rafaela (and friends) very quickly.

or

Signing Luzardo and Arraez for 5-6 years each, no prospects or FA money. But they are awesome.


Those things will cost very similar if we imagine what they combined get now in extensions versus Adames in FA next year you know. Swap Adames with two $75m contracts also, it doesn't matter who. Are the prospects/control years + Adames (who I agree is a step down from those two, even if really good in his own right) or other FA worth it? Assuming they would spend as this all fits under 2023 payrolls easily?

It's a hard choice, but from what I am seeing, I think Bendix does not care about this season at all and is thinking about the longterm play, ala something like that with Adames above. Get prospects and get money. Start deflecting money now with getting club controlled guys off the effective 3/$30m contract Giancarlo Stanton has in the Marlins starting in 2026, etc.


Which swings back to your point - Bruce shouldn't be an owner if he can't afford a top 17th-19th payroll in the league in a big market like Miami. As none of this salary tinkering above matters if he spends $130-140m with even medium competency in the FO. Sigh.

[rmc523]

lol, they arent waiting out any fucking market. they are being cheap and doing nothing because they have an owner who has no business owning a professional sports team, nor does he have any vision to lock up players he already has early to save money long term

I think it’s more “if someone falls to our price point of X, maybe we’ll try to sign them” rather than an intentional plan to hold out on various targets.

[rmc523]

They signed Cueto in late January and Soler in March. This is exactly what this ownership group does.


But you're right Bruce shouldn't be an owner and there is something incredibly wrong with not buying out their arbitration eligible players. But I suppose their ultimate plan could be moving Luzardo and Arraez for a ton of stuff eventually and build around a Sandy/Eury/Cabrera/Garrett/Rogers/Max rotation.

What's better

Getting 3 top 100 prospects and other fun stuff for Luzardo and Arraez within the next 12 months and signing Adames in the offseason for 5-6 years. This could be something like Mayo, Kjerstad, and Rafaela (and friends) very quickly.

or

Signing Luzardo and Arraez for 5-6 years each, no prospects or FA money. But they are awesome.


Those things will cost very similar if we imagine what they combined get now in extensions versus Adames in FA next year you know. Swap Adames with two $75m contracts also, it doesn't matter who. Are the prospects/control years + Adames (who I agree is a step down from those two, even if really good in his own right) or other FA worth it? Assuming they would spend as this all fits under 2023 payrolls easily?

It's a hard choice, but from what I am seeing, I think Bendix does not care about this season at all and is thinking about the longterm play, ala something like that with Adames above. Get prospects and get money. Start deflecting money now with getting club controlled guys off the effective 3/$30m contract Giancarlo Stanton has in the Marlins starting in 2026, etc.


Which swings back to your point - Bruce shouldn't be an owner if he can't afford a top 17th-19th payroll in the league in a big market like Miami. As none of this salary tinkering above matters if he spends $130-140m with even medium competency in the FO. Sigh.

Ok, but there’s less than zero reason to believe that they’re interested in signing someone like Adames….

[lou]

Ok, but there’s less than zero reason to believe that they’re interested in signing someone like Adames….

Totally, but if we think about the top 5 most expensive players on this team the next four years, they are Sandy, Luzardo, Arraez, Garcia, and Jazz (and he may only scale to 2/$15m sort of thing after this season even if completely awesome, so not much). Eury could eclipse Jazz here with some superstar arbitration tenders if he goes full Fernandez, but that would be it and that would be determined in 2027.

You clear out the bucks with Luzardo and Arraez, your payroll commitments are hardly anything as only Sandy, Garcia/Stanton (dead money), and Jazz and Eury extensions might be expensive. Others (Bell, Scott) fall off payroll. So that money can only go two places (1) the team, or (2) the pockets. And I'm talking they will have a full roster for CHEAP, $60-70m range, if they get a multitude of prospects via trade, and Bruce has shown he will spend $110m so what a fuck you to all of us if it goes to the pockets and not the team. Adames is just an example here as he makes the most position sense.

[lou]

They are apparently looking at Gio Urshela.

Which says to me Burger 1B, Bell DH, and Garcia better beat out DLC for LF in spring training or get cut.

Still room for a SS and Rosario still makes sense there to me to be a 50% SS and 50% 2B/LF roaming player. Berti can get 80+ starts at SS so it won't be a total defensive disaster IMO.

Fortes, Bethancourt
Burger, Bell
Arraez, Edwards
Rosario, Berti
Urshela, Brujan
DLC/Garcia
Jazz
Sanchez

This works for me all things considered as Brujan/Rosario can backup LF and start presumably 90+ games and Edwards can play 30-40 games in CF (with the LF being the backup RF explaining why Rosario/Brujan get so much time in LF).

How much can Urshela and Rosario possibly be? Sign Michael Fulmer for the pen as a third FA, and it's sub $110m with some hope you get the breakouts from Eury, Cabrera, and Rogers, and Jazz stays healthy. Sigh.

[Namaste]

They signed Cueto in late January and Soler in March. This is exactly what this ownership group does.

Exactly. The outrage is borderline embarrassing.

Not one person here (me included) wants Sherman as the owner. But Manfred and Jeter/Sherman butt fucked this organization and there’s nothing we can do about it now.

There’s still time for moves! Let Bendix cook.

[fish16]

Exactly. The outrage is borderline embarrassing.

Not one person here (me included) wants Sherman as the owner. But Manfred and Jeter/Sherman butt fucked this organization and there’s nothing we can do about it now.

There’s still time for moves! Let Bendix cook.

continuing to defend this minor league run organization is embarrassing. Pitchers and catchers report in 8 days and they havent signed a major league free agent this offseason. First off, it's past late january when Cueto was signed. He was signed on January 19th. Before they signed cueto last year, they traded for Arraez, traded for Matt Barnes, traded Rojas for Amaya, signed Segura, and signed hampson, and traded for Edwards and Chargois.

In the Soler offseason, they traded for Wendle, traded for Stallings, and signed Garcia all before December 2nd. Obviously they all sucked but the point is they made moves.

To act like this is remotely acceptable is pathetic. It's pure homerism. There is no defense for this minor league bullshit. They arent signing a major free agent between now and opening day. It will be a retread veteran that they try to play off as a major addition. We've added like 15 more front office people than major league free agents.

[fish16]

this dipshit owner is so tone deaf that he is also getting rid of the old teal pin stripe unis on friday nights now too

[rmc523]

Exactly. The outrage is borderline embarrassing.

Not one person here (me included) wants Sherman as the owner. But Manfred and Jeter/Sherman butt fucked this organization and there’s nothing we can do about it now.

There’s still time for moves! Let Bendix cook.

The outrage that they’ve done literally nothing outside of a minor trade or two the year after a brief playoff appearance on historic 1-run performance and losing pieces, when pitchers and catchers report next week is embarrassing?

that’s quite a take. Sure it’s possible something is done before the season starts. But it’s equally possible they do nothing.

[fish16]

mish said on twitter today that the trade he thought the team was going to make was with the orioles and would have included ortiz in part for luzardo. he says with the burnes trade that is no longer the case

[fish16]

i really wish one of the beat reporters had the balls to ask sherman at his annual spring press conference "why should any fan continue to support this team?"

[Namaste]

In the Soler offseason, they traded for Wendle, traded for Stallings, and signed Garcia all before December 2nd.

Lolololololol yes as long as there is LOTS of activity it’s WAYYYYYY better than no activity!

[fish16]

Lolololololol yes as long as there is LOTS of activity it’s WAYYYYYY better than no activity!

you responded to Lou's post about this being the front office's MO because of Soler signing in march and Cueto signing in January saying "Exactly".. My post was to show that there was plenty of activity both of those years prior to those moves. That's the point. Not that those were good moves. I clearly state in the post that those were terrible moves. That doesnt change the point that Lou's post was some bullshit revisionist history about this being the ownership groups offseason strategy in recent years.

This offseason is an embarrassment. They dont deserve a single fan to come out to see this product. Nobody should spend their time or money on this product with this clown as the owner.

[lou]

continuing to defend this minor league run organization is embarrassing. Pitchers and catchers report in 8 days and they havent signed a major league free agent this offseason. First off, it's past late january when Cueto was signed. He was signed on January 19th. Before they signed cueto last year, they traded for Arraez, traded for Matt Barnes, traded Rojas for Amaya, signed Segura, and signed hampson, and traded for Edwards and Chargois.

In the Soler offseason, they traded for Wendle, traded for Stallings, and signed Garcia all before December 2nd. Obviously they all sucked but the point is they made moves.

To act like this is remotely acceptable is pathetic. It's pure homerism. There is no defense for this minor league bullshit. They arent signing a major free agent between now and opening day. It will be a retread veteran that they try to play off as a major addition. We've added like 15 more front office people than major league free agents.

I generally agree with you, but the team's 26 man roster is very set compared to previous years with having to make series of moves for 6-10 guys before. This was coming back day 1, not really suggesting they needed to make big moves:

Fortes, _____
Bell
Arraez, Edwards
____, Berti
Burger, _____
DLC, Garcia (or Myers)
Jazz
Sanchez

Luzardo, Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, Rogers
Scott, Nardi, Puk, Weathers, Chargois, Okert, and two likely internal relievers pending Max and Bender return. Not a huge need

Bethancourt became 1 line, Brujan a second (which is a good reclamation project). They frankly don't *need* to make moves absent getting a SS. If that's the bar, not much left to do and they are in fact waiting out the market. It's good they arent just making moves to make moves as what they are bringing back is good. But the problem is yes, Bruce is cheap as they should be kicking Garcia to the curb for a better OF, getting at least one better C or SS, another SP/bulk guy, and maybe another RP


Big picture, this is screaming Luzardo and Arraez will be traded likely in July if they aren't a real contender. I think Bendix has 2025 circled with Sandy + larger arm inventory with Eury, Cabrera, Max, and Rogers. Get rid of that impending $25m in payroll and get three awesome club controlled kids making the minimum to match with Jazz, Burger, Sanchez, and optimistically some of Fortes, Edwards, Brujan, and DLC stick.

Edit - That extra $25m goes a long ways over 1-3 players, as they'll have open payroll on top of that with Bell, Scott, Chargois, Okert, CUETO, BARNES, and probably Berti coming off too, which those guys are over $30m on their own. That is an enormous payroll dump compared to 2024 even with Sandy, Jazz, Sanchez, Burger, Garrett, Cabrera and Puk getting raises, and those may only be +$20m or so. A lot of potential spending money here next year theoretically, even at their prices. Hope?