2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[rmc523]

Maybe they should have hired someone with actual experience in roster and player management instead of a glorified accountant as a publicity stunt.

I agree.....though, she was an AGM in the past. But that was also many years ago too. I didn't like it, but understood some of the roster hiccups would happen the 1st year of a new GM. But there's no reason for it to have happened again in year 2.

[Todd]

She was an AGM whose sole responsibility was making sure numbers on arbitrations added up. She never had anything to do with player moves.

Listening to her talk about baseball is painful because you can tell she doesn't know much about the game. She's like an eloquent Lee Stone.

[rmc523]

Are there even any rumors that we're even working on any trades? Or is it just complete radio silence and Kim's just got her feet up taking a nap?

[rmc523]

She was an AGM whose sole responsibility was making sure numbers on arbitrations added up. She never had anything to do with player moves.

Listening to her talk about baseball is painful because you can tell she doesn't know much about the game. She's like an eloquent Lee Stone.

Well, it makes sense that Jeter apparently interviewed ONLY her and gave her the job lol.

[fish16]

Well, it makes sense that Jeter apparently interviewed ONLY her and gave her the job lol.

in his defense i think they were interviewing her for a job they were creating, not one they were replacing. in other words, they really just wanted to add her to the organization apparently and werent necessarily trying to fill a previously filled position.

[rmc523]

in his defense i think they were interviewing her for a job they were creating, not one they were replacing. in other words, they really just wanted to add her to the organization apparently and werent necessarily trying to fill a previously filled position.

How was GM not a previously filled position? I know Michael Hill had the President of baseball ops title, but he was the GM with a fancier title.

[lou]

She was an AGM whose sole responsibility was making sure numbers on arbitrations added up. She never had anything to do with player moves.

Listening to her talk about baseball is painful because you can tell she doesn't know much about the game. She's like an eloquent Lee Stone.

Say what we will about the small sample size criticism and some insane trade Sandy takes, but Lee is certainly eloquent in his positions!


Also I struggle with this as they make a lot of smart moves on paper (Luzardo, Wendle, DLC, Groshans, Edwards, Z. Thompson, various other low-end RP, as well as Stallings was a smart trade even if he didn't work) and do turn some assets we have no expectations for into something (Garrett, Fortes, Berti), but it's just the two biggest moves (Soler and Garcia) have been really bad, and combined with inaction (i.e. right now) and a few other puzzling things (Keeping Aguilar for a triple DH), it really emphasizes the bad.

I am perplexed this team is doing NOTHING of merit but what I am saying here is, this can't be predominantly Kim? Can it? No one can be this bad at a job this high up in an organization. I mean insert Liz Truss joke here, but no one can be this incompetent with such "clear" needs at at least CF and picking really anywhere else to get a second major positional upgrade, and choose to do nothing or whiff on every move. Maybe she is bad at this job, but it keeps going back to Bruce. What does she have to work with? Is he expecting a $80m perpetual contender? Because no one can solve that problem.

[rmc523]

Say what we will about the small sample size criticism and some insane trade Sandy takes, but Lee is certainly eloquent in his positions!


Also I struggle with this as they make a lot of smart moves on paper (Luzardo, Wendle, DLC, Groshans, Edwards, Z. Thompson, various other low-end RP, as well as Stallings was a smart trade even if he didn't work) and do turn some assets we have no expectations for into something (Garrett, Fortes, Berti), but it's just the two biggest moves (Soler and Garcia) have been really bad, and combined with inaction (i.e. right now) and a few other puzzling things (Keeping Aguilar for a triple DH), it really emphasizes the bad.

I am perplexed this team is doing NOTHING of merit but what I am saying here is, this can't be predominantly Kim? Can it? No one can be this bad at a job this high up in an organization. I mean insert Liz Truss joke here, but no one can be this incompetent with such "clear" needs at at least CF and picking really anywhere else to get a second major positional upgrade, and choose to do nothing or whiff on every move. Maybe she is bad at this job, but it keeps going back to Bruce. What does she have to work with? Is he expecting a $80m perpetual contender? Because no one can solve that problem.

Yeah, the trades she has made have seemed good on paper, but she's too hesitant to pull the trigger.

There are 2 ways to improve the team:
1) FA signings
2) Trades

Being hesitant to make trades would be fine if we were plugging holes with FA signings....if you want to hold onto your prospects, sure, but you have to fill the holes somehow

Instead, you have zero FA signings (I think blame goes to both - Bruce for not "oking" a larger payroll, Kim for starting negotiations insultingly low), AND no effort to make trades, so we get no improvement at all.

[rmc523]

I'd prefer to keep as many prospects as you can and fill the roster via FA.....that's the whole point of creating the financial flexibility we have.....but that ship has sailed as all the major FAs are gone.


The Rays are able to be competitive with a low payroll, and are constantly making trades.

Low payroll doesn't mean do nothing.

[lou]

I'd prefer to keep as many prospects as you can and fill the roster via FA.....that's the whole point of creating the financial flexibility we have.....but that ship has sailed as all the major FAs are gone.


The Rays are able to be competitive with a low payroll, and are constantly making trades.

Low payroll doesn't mean do nothing.

I don't necessarily agree with the free agents, there are some limited ones left that could make sense - but they gotta spend $110m+ (hence the larger question). Bruce, Kim, Dombrowski, Hill, Friedman, Beane. No one solves the $80m problem in 2023. No one.

Say what we will about the SP depth - someone like Eovaldi would let them *really* trade them. I went on with Fish16 about this a lot - they have just enough innings right now IMO (and I acknowledge some may disagree), but if they add another 250+ innings, they can easily trade 2 of the top 6. We'll kindly give them Chargois/Enright as 60+ of those innings, so Eovaldi, and some other whatever RP gets them there. I'll let them conjure those extra innings (as Eovaldi isn't dropping 190) out of nowhere as they seem to do that with Bender/Thompson/Pop/etc. Bassit got 3/$63. Eovaldi 3/$60 in a fun decade later home coming? I am DOWN for Sandy, Eovaldi, Rogers, Cabrera, Luzardo/Garrett and moving Pablo and Luzardo/Garrett (I pick these 2 as they have volatile pitch mix profiles and Rogers and Cabrera should throw the most innings longterm with more changeup dependency, etc.). Also Eflin got 3/$40. Is Eovaldi closer to that making this even easier to do?

So they sign a SP like Eovaldi out of nowhere and then how can they mess up then trading these guys for 3 bat upgrades

Pablo
Luzardo/Garrett (one can go)
Salas/Cappe/Watson (one can go)
Fortes/Stallings (I am assuming one of the first 2 pitchers gets Danny Jansen)
Rojas/Wendle/Berti (I am assuming a SS is coming back somewhere here, basically Rosario, god willingly Peraza)
Scott/Okert/Bleier/Nardi/Simpson/Reynolds (one can go, a good throw in)
DLC/Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick/Jerar (I am assuming a CF is coming back somewhere here and they don't need everyone with Garcia, a solid throw in for the later guys)
And they could dip into Meyer/Eder/Fulton as necessary, as well as Miller/Lewis/Morisette/Mack (assuming C)/McCambley, etc.

There are 3 bats here and they can do it for $110m! None of those guys matter when you realize there are 5 SP all signed for years + Eury/Eder/Fulton/Sixto at minimum. And this is why I am perplexed. This is the "cheap" way of doing it with just freaking Eovaldi. Maybe the joke is on us as they have to wait till every FA starter of note is gone, but really playing with fire here as yet again, the margin of error decreases when anyone signs someone. They get till spring training of course, but its just shocking to do nothing but two fleeting RP.

[rmc523]

I don't necessarily agree with the free agents, there are some limited ones left that could make sense - but they gotta spend $110m+ (hence the larger question). Bruce, Kim, Dombrowski, Hill, Friedman, Beane. No one solves the $80m problem in 2023. No one.

Say what we will about the SP depth - someone like Eovaldi would let them *really* trade them. I went on with Fish16 about this a lot - they have just enough innings right now IMO (and I acknowledge some may disagree), but if they add another 250+ innings, they can easily trade 2 of the top 6. We'll kindly give them Chargois/Enright as 60+ of those innings, so Eovaldi, and some other whatever RP gets them there. I'll let them conjure those extra innings (as Eovaldi isn't dropping 190) out of nowhere as they seem to do that with Bender/Thompson/Pop/etc. Bassit got 3/$63. Eovaldi 3/$60 in a fun decade later home coming? I am DOWN for Sandy, Eovaldi, Rogers, Cabrera, Luzardo/Garrett and moving Pablo and Luzardo/Garrett (I pick these 2 as they have volatile pitch mix profiles and Rogers and Cabrera should throw the most innings longterm with more changeup dependency, etc.). Also Eflin got 3/$40. Is Eovaldi closer to that making this even easier to do?

So they sign a SP like Eovaldi out of nowhere and then how can they mess up then trading these guys for 3 bat upgrades

Pablo
Luzardo/Garrett (one can go)
Salas/Cappe/Watson (one can go)
Fortes/Stallings (I am assuming one of the first 2 pitchers gets Danny Jansen)
Rojas/Wendle/Berti (I am assuming a SS is coming back somewhere here, basically Rosario, god willingly Peraza)
Scott/Okert/Bleier/Nardi/Simpson/Reynolds (one can go, a good throw in)
DLC/Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick/Jerar (I am assuming a CF is coming back somewhere here and they don't need everyone with Garcia, a solid throw in for the later guys)
And they could dip into Meyer/Eder/Fulton as necessary, as well as Miller/Lewis/Morisette/Mack (assuming C)/McCambley, etc.

There are 3 bats here and they can do it for $110m! None of those guys matter when you realize there are 5 SP all signed for years + Eury/Eder/Fulton/Sixto at minimum. And this is why I am perplexed. This is the "cheap" way of doing it with just freaking Eovaldi. Maybe the joke is on us as they have to wait till every FA starter of note is gone, but really playing with fire here as yet again, the margin of error decreases when anyone signs someone. They get till spring training of course, but its just shocking to do nothing but two fleeting RP.

Sorry, I was meaning in general/going into the offseason, I would prefer to fill all the holes you could via FA, and plug the rest via trades.

The trade route is basically all that's left now.

The issues this offseason are domino effects of 2 offseasons ago when they refused to try to sign JT. Sign him then and you don't need to trade for Stallings, AND you have a major bat in the lineup already. Fast forward to last year, sign Correa, and bam, you now have 2 big bats in the lineup, fast forward to this year and sign secondary guys.....you'd be at the point where you're adding the decorations and candles to the icing on the cake. Instead, we're still stuck baking the cake.

[lou]

Sorry, I was meaning in general/going into the offseason, I would prefer to fill all the holes you could via FA, and plug the rest via trades.

The trade route is basically all that's left now.

The issues this offseason are domino effects of 2 offseasons ago when they refused to try to sign JT. Sign him then and you don't need to trade for Stallings, AND you have a major bat in the lineup already. Fast forward to last year, sign Correa, and bam, you now have 2 big bats in the lineup, fast forward to this year and sign secondary guys.....you'd be at the point where you're adding the decorations and candles to the icing on the cake. Instead, we're still stuck baking the cake.

I am team not sign older catchers / Marte, but it all goes to Bruce - no fucking payroll. However we want to argue it be used - no fucking payroll.

They could have Nimmo AND Swanson cheaper than Correa right now, and assuming they cleared out of Wendle/Rojas to do that, be sitting at a $115m payroll and now let's talk about trading some SP for a young 1B/3B type and luxury RP. Use Pablo and Scott in those deals, and you're under $110m if club controlled options are coming back. Do that same Pablo for Jansen/Martinez deal I (and Toronto media) has speculated and shoot out Fortes/Scott/Salas for anything else, and that team is AWESOME for $115m. It's just pathetic.

[rmc523]

I am team not sign older catchers / Marte, but it all goes to Bruce - no fucking payroll. However we want to argue it be used - no fucking payroll.

They could have Nimmo AND Swanson cheaper than Correa right now, and assuming they cleared out of Wendle/Rojas to do that, be sitting at a $115m payroll and now let's talk about trading some SP for a young 1B/3B type and luxury RP. Use Pablo and Scott in those deals, and you're under $110m if club controlled options are coming back. Do that same Pablo for Jansen/Martinez deal I (and Toronto media) has speculated and shoot out Fortes/Scott/Salas for anything else, and that team is AWESOME for $115m. It's just pathetic.

Well, the point is there have been many ways to build this team, but they've done none of them.

[lou]

Well, the point is there have been many ways to build this team, but they've done none of them.

Yep and this is the most infuriating part for me. However, a lot of it is contingent on some payroll going up.

The $90m Marlins team is frankly, the current one, sell out the farm for Alek Thomas (no MLB SP), sign Drury or whoever to hit some lefties at 3B and spell Cooper at 1B, and pray. All the marbles are with the six SP and Jazz exceeding expectations, and everyone else being incrementally better (notably Garcia, Soler, DLC, Floro, and lefty relievers here). At this point, this should likely be the expectation. The everything must go right team. Because it worked so well last year.

[Lee Stone]

Bottom line: Gotta trade Alcantara. Could get three and more likely four major upgrades among position players, which would be a good start for the team. It's not like there would be no rotation left is Sandy was gone. There's upside to all the rest of the starters.