2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[lou]

The one year we weren’t a complete embarrassment under Sherman we went out and got Marte who instantly was our best position player. Pretty much every midseason acquisition outside of 2003 was a disaster under Loria.

I fucking hate the current ownership, but Jeff Loria was possibly the worst owner in the history of the league.

Loria would spend with this team, that's my problem.

The Rays are "in" on Nimmo and signed Eflin to 3/$40. The Rays! They signed Wander to $200m.

Imagine if the Marlins signed Nimmo and traded Pablo for say, A. Rosario, X. Curry, and another decent mid-tier prospect. Then move Rojas or Wendle. Payroll goes to roughly $92m, they effectively build in SP depth with Curry, and the team projection moves up to like.... 83+ wins. And that's with Jazz, Nimmo, and Sandy as 3.5, 4, and 4 WAR player projections and you can find 3+ more wins just there based on what they did last year (and Luzardo is 2, Rogers, Cabrera, and Garrett roughly 4 combined which may be way off, etc.).

Then imagine doing something fun like trading Cooper for a reliever and signing Josh Bell (Drury? Do we believe?) for 2-4 years and scaling payroll to say sub $110m. You probably tick up to 84+ wins as a minor Cooper upgrade and you're in the ballpark of contending with major breakout potential in the rotation, and modest consistency/regression to mean potential at C, 2B, LF, RF, and DH (fucking everyone was hurt/had a down year).

They'd have a genuine chance for at least a 4 year window with only Sandy and Nimmo being expensive, and Rosario (extension), early Jazz arbitration, and remaining Bell/Drury, Soler, and Garcia being medium expenses. Everything goes away here in effectively 4-5 years. Internal payroll would not rise with the additional pitching and guys like Berry/Salas/Cappe coming in 2+ years.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but Jeff would do this (even if he had to backload). I can't say the same for Bruce, which is why he is worse to me. Loria NEVER had something set up this well (he would have if Fernandez didn't die though, and that would have been interesting to see what he would have done), so if Bruce fumbles the ball here. My god. Wasting a cy young arm. I can't imagine.

[Nick]

Loria would spend with this team, that's my problem.

The Rays are "in" on Nimmo and signed Eflin to 3/$40. The Rays! They signed Wander to $200m.

Imagine if the Marlins signed Nimmo and traded Pablo for say, A. Rosario, X. Curry, and another decent mid-tier prospect. Then move Rojas or Wendle. Payroll goes to roughly $92m, they effectively build in SP depth with Curry, and the team projection moves up to like.... 83+ wins. And that's with Jazz, Nimmo, and Sandy as 3.5, 4, and 4 WAR player projections and you can find 3+ more wins just there based on what they did last year (and Luzardo is 2, Rogers, Cabrera, and Garrett roughly 4 combined which may be way off, etc.).

Then imagine doing something fun like trading Cooper for a reliever and signing Josh Bell (Drury? Do we believe?) for 2-4 years and scaling payroll to say sub $110m. You probably tick up to 84+ wins as a minor Cooper upgrade and you're in the ballpark of contending with major breakout potential in the rotation, and modest consistency/regression to mean potential at C, 2B, LF, RF, and DH (fucking everyone was hurt/had a down year).

They'd have a genuine chance for at least a 4 year window with only Sandy and Nimmo being expensive, and Rosario (extension), early Jazz arbitration, and remaining Bell/Drury, Soler, and Garcia being medium expenses. Everything goes away here in effectively 4-5 years. Internal payroll would not rise with the additional pitching and guys like Berry/Salas/Cappe coming in 2+ years.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but Jeff would do this (even if he had to backload). I can't say the same for Bruce, which is why he is worse to me. Loria NEVER had something set up this well (he would have if Fernandez didn't die though, and that would have been interesting to see what he would have done), so if Bruce fumbles the ball here. My god. Wasting a cy young arm. I can't imagine.

Based on what? He spent once in his entire tenure as Owner, and it was an immediate failure and we were back to 29th in payroll the next year. Have we already forgotten what it was like so quickly?

[Nick]

I mean he gave Stanton a huge contract that was so backloaded and poorly constructed that he barely paid any of it before he was out the door, and we had to end up trading the reigning MVP for basically nothing. Are we forgetting?

[lou]

I mean he gave Stanton a huge contract that was so backloaded and poorly constructed that he barely paid any of it before he was out the door, and we had to end up trading the reigning MVP for basically nothing. Are we forgetting?

No. This is in comparison to Bruce - which has been Garcia and Soler and a Sandy extension in 5 seasons, as well as I suppose the Marte trade acquisition. Like you said, that's the best thing they've done. If we want to compare them both to everyone else in baseball, they'll both appear on the Mount Rushmore of bad owners of the last 20 years, but I'm saying Bruce's time here is extremely lacking and it's because he is cheap to a fault and everyone is too passive.

I mean Loria was terrible and sure it's more years he was in charge, but Stanton, Yelich, Chen, Reyes, Hanley was extended, even Bell, while idiotic, they tried making moves with Latos, Rodney, Prado, and others. He did actually do some things from time to time, and some of those are pretty major as compared to just an internal extension, one middle tier, one lower-mid tier FA, and one trade of note.

What the fuck is this team doing right now? That's my whole point. I think if Jeff was in charge, for all his faults, he was competitive enough in his own way to see this is on the verge of being a real good team and scaling payroll to Milwaukee/Detroit/Cincinatti levels ($110m) would create a 3-4 year window minimum. To note, South Florida is a much larger media market than all of those cities and Miami should be a much better off franchise with a newer stadium.

I can wait until spring training before getting "fuck off forever" mad, as they have a lot of time to finally get the CF and some other bat upgrade (plus at least 1 reliever), but it's pretty frustrating nothing is happening when there are literally only a handful of guys in baseball that make sense. Go out and get one, make that "Werth" acquisition early in FA to set the tone for all subsequent deals. Run your business. Jeff was bad, but I don't think he was *this* bad. But Bruce does get till spring training, so let's see what that bozo approves.

[Nick]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to give Loria points for extending guys when every single guy he extended was gone within 2-3 years anyway.

[sports24/7]

Bryan Reynolds has requested a trade. Craig Mish has previously said he feels very strongly that if Reynolds gets traded, it will be to the Marlins. The Pirates already put out a statement taking a hard line that they intend to keep him, but that tends to rarely happen. This will be interesting to follow.

[Namaste]

Bryan Reynolds has requested a trade. Craig Mish has previously said he feels very strongly that if Reynolds gets traded, it will be to the Marlins. The Pirates already put out a statement taking a hard line that they intend to keep him, but that tends to rarely happen. This will be interesting to follow.

The level of frenzy that occurred yesterday on Marlins Twitter because Reynolds requested a trade was funny.

You would have thought the Marlins were in the final stages of inking a deal with him.

Nothing to see here in my opinion.

[lou]

The level of frenzy that occurred yesterday on Marlins Twitter because Reynolds requested a trade was funny.

You would have thought the Marlins were in the final stages of inking a deal with him.

Nothing to see here in my opinion.

The Marlins could though really do them a solid so they save face. Pittsburgh saves face trading him for a big MLB name.

Base the package on Rogers who they could really use as much as Reynolds. It could work maybe?

[Lee Stone]

The Marlins could though really do them a solid so they save face. Pittsburgh saves face trading him for a big MLB name.

Base the package on Rogers who they could really use as much as Reynolds. It could work maybe?

You are aware that Bryan Reynolds isn't really even an option for CF, right? He had about the worst defensive rating in baseball out there. See Fangraphs to get an idea of how bad he was and that De La Cruz was right down there with him. Jesus Sanchez graded out perfectly well - about ML average - despite it being his first experience in center.

[lou]

You are aware that Bryan Reynolds isn't really even an option for CF, right? He had about the worst defensive rating in baseball out there. See Fangraphs to get an idea of how bad he was and that De La Cruz was right down there with him. Jesus Sanchez graded out perfectly well - about ML average - despite it being his first experience in center.

Yes, and thank you for citing resources like Fangraphs. If they were to acquire Reynolds (who *hits*), I imagine they would obtain a strong side platoon CF - like Kiermaier and deploy the OF:

Reynolds, DLC
Kiermaier
Garcia
5th OF - Soler/Berti
AAA - At least two of Sanchez/Bleday and Burdick/Jerar as some inevitably would be traded

vs LHP

DLC
Reynolds
Garcia

vs RHP

Reynolds
Kiermaier
Garcia/DLC

That would work. It's a solid depth chart with some real major upside if any of the AAA guys make it, Garcia rebounds, and Kiermaier can stay healthy for 400 PA. You'd live with some down CF defense 1/3rd the season to take advantage of splits here. We can't just assume any deal they do is in a vacuum as this offseason will have moving parts. Trading for Reynolds and doing nothing else would be puzzling, I will agree there.

TBH I actually love this idea and get Bednar and Brubaker also. Something like this would work.

Rogers
Berry/Salas/Cappe
I. Lewis
Sanchez/Bleday
Burdick/Jerar
Castano/Poteet/McCambley/Soriano/Villalobos

And they could have Rojas or Wendle too (who they can use very much so) for a throw-in prospect or just keep the last pitcher? Maybe they'd want a better 3rd player (Fulton? Sixto? Miller? Eder or Meyer would probably be too much), but I think you'd have to do it and just pull back the last guy or two or pull back the preferred option of Berry/Salas/Cappe.

This is roughly $88m:

Fortes, Stallings
Cooper
Jazz
_____, Rojas or Wendle
Berti, Groshans
Reynolds, DLC
Kiermaier
Garcia
Soler

Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Brubaker, Garrett
Bednar, Floro, Chargois
Scott, Bleier, Okert
Castano/Nance/Sixto/Brazoban/etc.

AAA has at least two of Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick/Jerar, LeBlanc and Edwards, as well as Eder/Sixto/Eury are coming. Basically, pretty solid depth as there is some hope with all those guys.


And now, you still have 6 MLB SP + Eury and Eder, and *someone* here is getting the fucking shortstop finally.


So I'm just saying here, Reynolds is great and could open up possibilities. Blow Pittsburgh out of the water and get the RP and backend SP then sign Kiermaier. A+ offseason once a real SS arrives.

[Namaste]

Looks like Verlander is going to the Mets

[Namaste]

2 years $86 million

[fish16]

Right now the mets have 3 players under contract this year whose salary is about 80 million more than our entire team right now (Verlander, Scherzer, Lindor). That's before calculating team control figures and arbitration numbers, so just about 1/8th of the mets team is going to make more than our entire roster before anymore signings.

[fish16]

twins supposedly putting luis arraez on the block for some pitching. That's a guy id be all over. Plays 3 positions at least with some history in LF as well. Played a lot of 1b, 2b, and 3b the last 3 years. He doesnt fit the pure power bat we need but the dude gets on base and gets base hits. I wouldnt do pablo unless there is an OF involved but i could see a garrett + deal making sense for each side. Id consider Rogers for him but i think garrett and another piece makes more sense. Maybe throw in a reliever like Floro. Garrett/Wendle so they get pitching and a replacement for Arraez. Wendle seems like a twin type player. Either way, getting Arraez's pure hitting ability would be a big addition that wouldnt fully cost pablo. Could theoretically try to keep it at minor leaguers like Watson/Fulton/Jerar for Arraez and still leave pablo available for a bigger addition.

[lou]

twins supposedly putting luis arraez on the block for some pitching. That's a guy id be all over. Plays 3 positions at least with some history in LF as well. Played a lot of 1b, 2b, and 3b the last 3 years. He doesnt fit the pure power bat we need but the dude gets on base and gets base hits. I wouldnt do pablo unless there is an OF involved but i could see a garrett + deal making sense for each side. Id consider Rogers for him but i think garrett and another piece makes more sense. Maybe throw in a reliever like Floro. Garrett/Wendle so they get pitching and a replacement for Arraez. Wendle seems like a twin type player. Either way, getting Arraez's pure hitting ability would be a big addition that wouldnt fully cost pablo. Could theoretically try to keep it at minor leaguers like Watson/Fulton/Jerar for Arraez and still leave pablo available for a bigger addition.

I mean he is good, but they have this player in Berti already and you'd be trading major assets for a guy whose best position is 2B. He is a bad 3B and would never play there, so then we're considering him.... the longterm 1B or LF? I don't see this as a fit unless Jazz was then moved for an absolute ton and that doesn't make sense ether. Or, maybe they wow us and say Jazz is a defensive SS or CF and jokes on us they have this solved internally (so we can then bitch why didn't that happen earlier). Nice player, but this one is tough.