2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[lou]

I think you have to consider that Alcantara has more trade value than Rogers, Lopez, Luzardo, Cabrera and Richards combined. The holes that need filling are every position player on the roster other than Jazz.

Well first, no.

C - Fortes has a 1.7 WAR his first 274 PA with a .252 BABIP. Makes league minimum. Stallings is likely a suitable backup after a down year. Combined maybe $3.75m. Cheap.
1B -
2B - Jazz. League minimum and great.
SS -
3B - Berti had a 2.3 WAR last year in 404 PA, and Groshans is a fairly regarded prospect ZIPS thinks can be a 1.5 WAR player immediately. This two might make $3.5m next year. Likely Wendle/Rojas is the back up SS and they will get time here too and are certainly 1+ WAR bench players. Add them and it's close to $9m for 3 players.
LF - DLC has a 1.7 WAR his first 574 PA and Jesus Sanchez 1.4 WAR his first 623 PA. Behind them is # 4 overall pick Bleday. They make league minimum. $1.5m.
CF -
RF - Garcia is under contract for 3 years. It is what it is, but he was pretty good 17-21 so there is hope.
DH - Soler is under contract for 1-2 years, and Berry is in the system so an internal replacement is coming. It is what it is.

You can sell the idea they need a 1B, SS, and CF. These position groups above are happening, probably can realistically get to 13 WAR with some upside (for $43m and $27m of that is Garcia/Soler. 10 players), and there are valid reasons to see how they play out based on past production and financials. All of this is fine.

Now compare that to losing a 5-6 WAR player on a cheap contract. How in the world are you making up this production with Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller in return? Then realize the Marlins payroll is at $65-75m range depending on what they do with their arbitration players and they have gluts of prospects they can move. How does that make sense when they have other avenues to improve and practically, only SS and CF are likely longterm guys as 1B and bullpen can be stopgaps/cheaper for present purposes?


Second, we can/should consider Sandy for four players - Julio, Aldy, Wander, and Witt. That's it. That's the list. You can't sell me on anyone else in all of baseball at any level.


They will have to trade something to improve, but this isn't it. Sandy and Jazz are the only organization untouchables, and Eury likely is absent a Corbin Carroll 1-1 sort of swap, or an insane Tatis package that will never happen, for a perfect immediate position improvement for CF.

[lou]

At some point you need to hold on to a star (who they wisely extended last year in the off season).

I have a better idea, Lee. Instead of trading the guy with the 3rd highest WAR in MLB this year for more prospects, how about Bruce acts like a big boy owner and spends money to fill the teams glaring needs?

Let's beat the dead horse - YES

[Lee Stone]

Trade targets from Yankees involving Lopez and others: Venezuelans Peraza and Periera. Peraza can play SS right now and Periera a year or two out for CF. Marlins would still need slugging first and third basemen and a better catcher than Stallings.

[lou]

Trade targets from Yankees involving Lopez and others: Venezuelans Peraza and Periera. Peraza can play SS right now and Periera a year or two out for CF. Marlins would still need slugging first and third basemen and a better catcher than Stallings.

Yes Peraza and Periera is what we wanted for Pablo at the deadline. Nothing new here. That would be great to get Peraza, turn other assets into a real CF now so all eggs aren't in the Periera basket, and get more stop gap pitching.

They do need a 1B, or get big upgrades at SS and CF and Cooper is then fine.

They do not need a 3B. Berti/Groshans platoon is likely a middle of the pack, or dare I say better than average, situation out there, especially combined with Wendle/Rojas being a premium backup on top of that.

They have a better catcher than Stallings named Nick.

[sports24/7]

I think you have to consider that Alcantara has more trade value than Rogers, Lopez, Luzardo, Cabrera and Richards combined. The holes that need filling are every position player on the roster other than Jazz.

I don't think you have to fill every position on the roster. Teams aren't made up of all all-stars. A handful of good moves, and you're competitive with this pitching staff led by arguably the best pitcher in baseball. And just because Alcantara has more value than those guys, doesn't mean you have to trade him, or that you can't get good players from other trade chips both on the big league team and in the minors. But also, making that deal you suggested for a bunch of prospects doesn't necessarily fix all of those positions. Odds actually say that you'll probably only hit on one or two. The Miguel Cabrera and Christian Yelich returns are much more common than the Marcel Ozuna ones. And the former two were seen as much bigger hauls at the time.

[Lee Stone]

Who will be the high-riser among position player prospects for the Marlins in 2023? My vote goes to Kahlil Watson. There was a lot of 19 year old Jazz Chisholm in his game last season. I foresee .275 avg. .335 OBP, 17 hr, 80 rbi and 30 steals at Beloit High A.

[fish16]

Who will be the high-riser among position player prospects for the Marlins in 2023? My vote goes to Kahlil Watson. There was a lot of 19 year old Jazz Chisholm in his game last season. I foresee .275 avg. .335 OBP, 17 hr, 80 rbi and 30 steals at Beloit High A.

I rarely agree with you but i actually do here. He had a completely tumultuous season but as i said in the beginning of last year, he is the most purely talented position player we have in the system. You say Jazz, I see lindor/jazz. He has a great combo of speed and power if he can get over his character issues. It should be said that while he was a nutcase last year (see fake shooting an umpire with his bat over a bad call), that's not super uncommon for guys who have always been the most talented guy on the field their entire life. Most guys can handle the failures that are inevitable as they climb through the minors, but others simply cant. If he can grow up, i think he's our best hitting prospect.

[lou]

Who will be the high-riser among position player prospects for the Marlins in 2023? My vote goes to Kahlil Watson. There was a lot of 19 year old Jazz Chisholm in his game last season.

TBH my answer would be no one. I don't see anyone high rising.

I think Berry will continue to be a back end top 100 prospect for at least another year and won't rise much due to positional concerns. Salas/Cappe/Watson will all still flirt in the 80-150 overall prospect range due to extremely young age. I don't see a Eury level breakout coming for any of them. I don't perceive big value changes coming for them. It's hard to get excited about Johnston/Nasim/Morisette becoming more than bench players, and guys like Lewis/Peguero/Gerardo/VMJR are really volatile and very young so they likely still need another year. If I had to pick one here, it's Morisette and he starts peppering 1B/2B everywhere and we view him as a future Owen Miller (Cle).

So Im going to cheat and say all catchers in the system. Yes, all of them. They seem to have an organizational knack for this (Barnes, Nola, Realmuto, Fortes), and I'm going to predict they hit on ALL of them. And when 1-2 of these actually happen next year, I'll feel good about it.

Mack is 19 and hit .231/.382/.355 in A ball. 19% BB / 26% K, .316 BABIP. He seems to have a good eye and the book on him is developmental power. They sent him to the AFL so they have high hopes exposing him this early. I think he starts showing some power and average next year. He cements catcher of the future for the organization and they don't feel the need to draft a catcher with top 3 picks next year.

Banfield is still just 22 and had a late season improvement of .267/.302/.405 (4% BB, 20% K, .308 BABIP) once promoted to AA. Fortes first "good" year was when he was 24. Nola didn't show anything until he was 26. Barnes was in low-A at 22 and killed it, and then really took off from there. Realmuto didn't even show much until he was 23. Banfield takes a step from outside top 30 into inside top 20 prospects next year and we think about him as Mack's future backup.

Hernandez, who turns 19, shows continued plate improvement in A ball and has what we would consider a a good and projectionable 19 year old season in A ball with defensive backup upside. Relatively maintains prospect status, but that alone I think is a very strong indicator for him and nice to have in the pipes behind Fortes/Mack/Banfield/Henry.

McIntosh goes to AAA and hits some bombs. He hit .258/.379/.465 last year in AA with 14% BB / 20% K. The whiffs go up and walks go down 5+% points each, but he maintains enough average and hits some dingers where we have some expectations he could be a low-level backup C/1B/DH with the Marlins, or a beneficial 40 man guy to call up if a power position gets injured for years. He is so far down the the prospect depth chart even getting a mention next year is a high riser to me.

And, Henry stays healthy and is a perfectly fine 3rd catcher/low end backup. Nothing special, but is acceptable and that is an improvement.


Sadly, this is nothing great and just projecting a slew of potential backups and maybe Mack is more, but practically, if this is 10 years of club controlled catchers for at least once spot once Fortes is added to this list also, I think that should be considered an organizational success of finding sufficient catcher depth.


Now go spend some money Bruce.

[Nick]

I'm very curious to see what the outlets say about Luis Palacios. Made it to AA this year, still a ridiculous strike thrower, obviously his numbers have come down to earth as he's got higher in the system, but still only 22. I wonder if he's seen any velocity bumps since last we've heard.

[Nick]

but if we're talking about position players. I still like Nasim Nunez. I think Berry will hit. We really need him to rise through the system quickly in 2023.

[lou]

but if we're talking about position players. I still like Nasim Nunez. I think Berry will hit. We really need him to rise through the system quickly in 2023.

Nicky Lopez has a .252/.309/.321 career slash and has a 2.5 WAR per 600 PA for his career. Stellar defense and base running. We can dream.

[Lee Stone]

but if we're talking about position players. I still like Nasim Nunez. I think Berry will hit. We really need him to rise through the system quickly in 2023.

Nasim Nunez is showing the most growth right now. I'll be watching him at AAA this season and wouldn't be surprised if he gets a call up by next August. Others of note: the extremely doubtful big leaguers who have received a look: Bleday, Groshans, Burdick, L Diaz, LeBlanc. I hold hope for De La Cruz and even wish on J Sanchez a little bit still.

The big shadow hanging over the franchise are the contracts of Soler and Avisail Garcia ... and Wendle to a lesser extent. Those very poor decisions were worthy of getting a front office fired. Now we are forced to look at the prospect of their playing time, which hurts a lot. Hard to get excited about 2023.

Anyone else interested in something like Tyler O'Neill and Matt Liberatore or Alec Burleson for Pablo? Our new manager would have firsthand knowledge about those guys. Or is it hard to imagine any trade with the team that gave up two top 10 NL starting pitchers for Ozuna? Despite the numerous lefty starters on the Marlins, Liberatore seems like a great buy low guy that would provide more depth to trade from. The Marlins have been lucky with southpaws in recent years.

[sports24/7]

Who will be the high-riser among position player prospects for the Marlins in 2023? My vote goes to Kahlil Watson. There was a lot of 19 year old Jazz Chisholm in his game last season. I foresee .275 avg. .335 OBP, 17 hr, 80 rbi and 30 steals at Beloit High A.

Watson is probably a good choice. Eder will probably jump quite a bit just because he was rising before he got hurt and kind of fell off the map from a prospect watch POV. But that's not necessarily what you're asking. I'd probably go Salas or Ian Lewis, with Joe Mack as my dark horse.

[Lee Stone]

Watson is probably a good choice. Eder will probably jump quite a bit just because he was rising before he got hurt and kind of fell off the map from a prospect watch POV. But that's not necessarily what you're asking. I'd probably go Salas or Ian Lewis, with Joe Mack as my dark horse.

Yes, Eder has already risen to the top in my estimation. Some scouts thought he looked better than any other pitcher in all of the minors. While the surgery and missed time resulted in apparent anonymity (he should be the top-rated lefty prospect in baseball IMO), I choose to believe that the off year will result in an even stronger version of his former self.

[lou]

The big shadow hanging over the franchise are the contracts of Soler and Avisail Garcia ... and Wendle to a lesser extent. Those very poor decisions were worthy of getting a front office fired. Now we are forced to look at the prospect of their playing time, which hurts a lot. Hard to get excited about 2023.

Anyone else interested in something like Tyler O'Neill and Matt Liberatore or Alec Burleson for Pablo? Our new manager would have firsthand knowledge about those guys. Or is it hard to imagine any trade with the team that gave up two top 10 NL starting pitchers for Ozuna? Despite the numerous lefty starters on the Marlins, Liberatore seems like a great buy low guy that would provide more depth to trade from. The Marlins have been lucky with southpaws in recent years.

Wendle doesn't have a guaranteed contract and they can DFA him and pay him $75k. That's not any shadow hanging over the franchise. Come on now. Practically, they can easily trade him as he's a good bench and costs $5+ m next year.

O'Neil is definitely an interesting trade idea of Cardinals sell low.