2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

No trade other players for bats FFS. Why do they need 6 good middle infield prospects with Jazz and Groshans at the MLB level?

Citing these statistics HURTS your position on Pablo you realize that? Jesus. Give the other 4 SP 150 innings each as your best case scenario projection. Give Sandy 200+. The team then needs 625 innings out of their relievers + Eury/Eder (who won't throw much at the MLB level which you continue to ignore).

Sign Clevinger, Williams, and get another 7th inning guy. That would be a bare minimum trifecta to replace Pablo effectively. And then pray no one gets hurt as the depth behind this is very thin (but you take that risk and make deadline moves to fix if contending so that's OK).

As said many times, they can do that, but I want to see some payroll devotion before just haphazardly trading one of the best 110 players in baseball for a hope and prayer. You can keep missing the forest in the trees, but let's not over rely on a bunch of guys with low innings potential and then get a JJ, Anibal, Nolasco trifecta arm blowout all at once. They've already had THREE major TJs with Meyer, Poteet, and Bender and they need to protect these guys. This is so basic.

Probably because none of those guys are surefire impact players nor are they going to be up here helping the terrible lineup within at the very least the next year and a half. No one is advocating for trading pablo for "a hope and a prayer." I'm advocating trading him for a package of at least 1 top 100 hitting prospect in the upper minors as well as another borderline top 100 guy. Pablo is worth that. 2 of Vargas, Pages, Busch from the dodgers type deal. 2 guys in the upper minors with a track record of mashing who you can slot into the lineup immediately and give you an immediate influx of talent in your lineup that isnt the veteran retread slop they have been throwing out there the entire rebuild like anderson, Soler, Garcia, wendle, Rojas, Stallings, Aguilar, etc. They need an immediate influx of cost controlled talent. Pablo is the easiest way to get that, they have no intention of re-signing him, and you dont have to decimate the talent in your farm system that a small market team like us relies on to build a sustainable long term contender.

You;'re advocating for gutting the limited young impact cost controlled talent that they actually have in the system instead of trading a guy who is a free agent in 2 years whose value will never be higher. All on the basis of filling 1 years worth of back end of the rotation and reliever innings. It is the height of stupidity and short-sightedness.

[lou]

Probably because none of those guys are surefire impact players nor are they going to be up here helping the terrible lineup within at the very least the next year and a half. No one is advocating for trading pablo for "a hope and a prayer." I'm advocating trading him for a package of at least 1 top 100 hitting prospect in the upper minors as well as another borderline top 100 guy. Pablo is worth that. 2 of Vargas, Pages, Busch from the dodgers type deal. 2 guys in the upper minors with a track record of mashing who you can slot into the lineup immediately and give you an immediate influx of talent in your lineup that isnt the veteran retread slop they have been throwing out there the entire rebuild like anderson, Soler, Garcia, wendle, Rojas, Stallings, Aguilar, etc. They need an immediate influx of cost controlled talent. Pablo is the easiest way to get that, they have no intention of re-signing him, and you dont have to decimate the talent in your farm system that a small market team like us relies on to build a sustainable long term contender.

You;'re advocating for gutting the limited young impact cost controlled talent that they actually have in the system instead of trading a guy who is a free agent in 2 years whose value will never be higher. All on the basis of filling 1 years worth of back end of the rotation and reliever innings. It is the height of stupidity and short-sightedness.

That deal sucks unless that prospect is healthy Meyer level. But sure - do that and actually sign 250+ innings.

Yes I am advocating to win and win big right now and deal with 2026, at earliest, in July 2025.

You play to win the game. Not playing to win 6 years into a rebuild is the height of stupidity and short-sightedness.

[lou]

I don't know that I'd say two are more valuable than Eury, but two of them plus one mid level prospect is less than Eury and a lot more IMO. Either way, if that's the ask, I'd do it. Value-wise, my preference would probably be Rogers and Fulton, but I don't know that they'd send two lefties. Maybe Meyer and Eder or Fulton, because you have to try and win now, and those might be the three furthest away from contributing.

I don't think they should sell low on Rogers - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/trevor-r...changed-it-up/. This is assuming they would be selling low, but he is good and likely a big rebound coming with moderate fastball tweaks. He has some of the biggest innings potential on the staff (versus the high stress pitch mixes of Luzardo/Garrett, etc.) so it's tough moving him IMO. If they keep everyone, I'd expect him to be third in innings next year after Sandy and Pablo.

I would use 2 of those 3 guys you mentioned as the "big" move centerpieces (and for a third one of Salas/Cappe/Watson). It's not gutting the farm like some think it would, especially when compared to the MLB control they'd have.

I bet they could get A LOT for this and if this yields a young 1B, SS, CF, and a RP what do we care?

Meyer/Eder
Salas/Cappe/Watson
Fulton
Anderson/Wendle/Rojas/Berti
Cooper
Sanchez/Bleday
Jerar/Burdick
I. Lewis/Morisette
Any number of outside top 20 guys


AND/OR BRUCE CAN SPEND SOME MONEY

[fish16]

That deal sucks unless that prospect is healthy Meyer level. But sure - do that and actually sign 250+ innings.

Yes I am advocating to win and win big right now and deal with 2026, at earliest, in July 2025.

You play to win the game. Not playing to win 6 years into a rebuild is the height of stupidity and short-sightedness.

lmao what on gods earth do you think you're winning by doing what you're advocating for? You think dealing the number 8 prospect in baseball who is the best prospect we have had since Jose and can produce huge surplus value for 6 years is going to bring this 68 win team to playoff level? Or do you think teams are just clammoring for a shit ton of our mediocre prospects? You're advocating for not only not winning next year, but fucking up the ability to be competitive for cheap the 3 years after.

so instead of trading the 1 guy who they wont re-sign in 2 years whose value will never be higher, they should deal the exact thing that can make small market teams competitve for years at a time- cost controlled young talent. Your plan makes 0 sense unless they sign a major free agent this offseason, which again, they wont do.

Adding cost controlled really good young hitting talent allows you to win next year and in the future years all without dealing your ticket to a chance at annual contention. Miguel Vargas is the number 24 prospect in baseball according to BA and is ML ready. Michael busch is number 46 and is also ML ready. Andy pages is 72 and is, wait for it, ML Ready.

It's really not as complicated as you're making it. they desperately need an influx of impact, major league ready hitters. Instead of making it as complicated as you're trying to make it, it's pretty simple. You deal pablo whose value will never be higher, you keep the young prospects who could make an impact for super cheap for years to come, and you sign a stop gap innings eater for a year and 2 relievers. It's really not that complicated, and pablo isnt this huge key to being able to win next year as you continue to insist it is.

You keep acting like trading pablo means they punt on next year when keeping him is that exactly. They have 0 ability to bring in hitting talent without trading him, signing a major free agent which they wont do, or completely decimating the farm system and the pitching surplus they have. Your plan is idiotic. You deal pablo at the height of his value, get 2 lineup pieces for next year, and keep guys like eury, Fulton, Meyer, Eder, all the young SS prospects who are 2 years away and can provide years of surplus value for the minimum for a team who has proven they will not spend major money to help this team. Trading Pablo is what a well run team with vision would do, like the rays. decimating the farm system and either trading eury or a shit ton of mid level prospects for an offensive upgrade is what loria would do.

[fish16]

I don't think they should sell low on Rogers - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/trevor-r...changed-it-up/. This is assuming they would be selling low, but he is good and likely a big rebound coming with moderate fastball tweaks. He has some of the biggest innings potential on the staff (versus the high stress pitch mixes of Luzardo/Garrett, etc.) so it's tough moving him IMO. If they keep everyone, I'd expect him to be third in innings next year after Sandy and Pablo.

I would use 2 of those 3 guys you mentioned as the "big" move centerpieces (and for a third one of Salas/Cappe/Watson). It's not gutting the farm like some think it would, especially when compared to the MLB control they'd have.

I bet they could get A LOT for this and if this yields a young 1B, SS, CF, and a RP what do we care?

Meyer/Eder
Salas/Cappe/Watson
Fulton
Anderson/Wendle/Rojas/Berti
Cooper
Sanchez/Bleday
Jerar/Burdick
I. Lewis/Morisette
Any number of outside top 20 guys


AND/OR BRUCE CAN SPEND SOME MONEY

christ you're delusional. What on earth do you think you are getting for those guys.

Meyer/Eder- both coming off TJ, not getting anything that will make an impact next year.
Salas/Cappe/Watson- all talented, not a top 100 prospect in the bunch, again, youre not getting anything that will make an impact next year.
Anderson/Wendle/Rojas/Berti- all shit. Not getting anything impactful for next year.
Cooper- im sure teams are clammoring for a 1b/DH only whose hand is magnetically connected to the ball when hitting and cant stay healthy and is going on age 32 coming off a .752 OPS season.
Sanchez/Bleday- again, wtf do you think you are getting for these players
Jerar/Burdick- again, wtf do you think you are getting for these players.
Lewis/Morisette- again, wtf do you think you are getting for these players.

What on earth do you think you will acquire with a bunch of hurt or mid level prospects just thrown in the same deal other than a still shitty lineup and an even more decimated hitting farm system. you;re like the fantasy manager who thinks throwing a bunch of shit in the same trade will get you a stud. Nobody wants to give up quality for shit quantity.

It's simple, you do what the rays would do. You deal a guy a year early when his value is at it's absolute highest it will ever be when you have no intention or real need to ever re-sign him long term, you get 2 studs to help the lineup, you sign a stop gap innings eater and 2 bullpen arms, and you move onto next year. That's the best you can do and you preserve the ridiculous cheap pitching talent you have and still address the long term dearth of talent in the lineup.

[fish16]

and i love the talk about how desperately they might need innings to be replaced next year as if pablo is some proven rotation horse. This is the first year he's even been fully healthy the entire year. His previous high in innings is 111. He is 2 years from free agency. He will not be re-signed. He is the guy to deal, not the entire mid levels of the farm and a bunch of mediocre pieces for even more mediocre pieces.

[Namaste]

If the Marlins lose by 1 run today, they’ll fall 3 short of the all time MLB record. I’ll be at the game. I think the roof might be open again.

[lou]

lmao what on gods earth do you think you're winning by doing what you're advocating for? You think dealing the number 8 prospect in baseball who is the best prospect we have had since Jose and can produce huge surplus value for 6 years is going to bring this 68 win team to playoff level? Or do you think teams are just clammoring for a shit ton of our mediocre prospects? You're advocating for not only not winning next year, but fucking up the ability to be competitive for cheap the 3 years after.

so instead of trading the 1 guy who they wont re-sign in 2 years whose value will never be higher, they should deal the exact thing that can make small market teams competitve for years at a time- cost controlled young talent. Your plan makes 0 sense unless they sign a major free agent this offseason, which again, they wont do.

Adding cost controlled really good young hitting talent allows you to win next year and in the future years all without dealing your ticket to a chance at annual contention. Miguel Vargas is the number 24 prospect in baseball according to BA and is ML ready. Michael busch is number 46 and is also ML ready. Andy pages is 72 and is, wait for it, ML Ready.

It's really not as complicated as you're making it. they desperately need an influx of impact, major league ready hitters. Instead of making it as complicated as you're trying to make it, it's pretty simple. You deal pablo whose value will never be higher, you keep the young prospects who could make an impact for super cheap for years to come, and you sign a stop gap innings eater for a year and 2 relievers. It's really not that complicated, and pablo isnt this huge key to being able to win next year as you continue to insist it is.

You keep acting like trading pablo means they punt on next year when keeping him is that exactly. They have 0 ability to bring in hitting talent without trading him, signing a major free agent which they wont do, or completely decimating the farm system and the pitching surplus they have. Your plan is idiotic. You deal pablo at the height of his value, get 2 lineup pieces for next year, and keep guys like eury, Fulton, Meyer, Eder, all the young SS prospects who are 2 years away and can provide years of surplus value for the minimum for a team who has proven they will not spend major money to help this team. Trading Pablo is what a well run team with vision would do, like the rays. decimating the farm system and either trading eury or a shit ton of mid level prospects for an offensive upgrade is what loria would do.

If they could have gotten Vargas and Pages it would have already happened, but maybe the offseason changes things.

And it is NOT complicated. YOU'RE the one who wants to make it complicated by trading their 3rd best player and figuring out how to contend around that. Yes trading Pablo is effectively punting next year unless they make MULTIPLE moves and do EVERYTHING right and EVERYONE stays healthy.

Remember - you thought this was an 88 win team. You thought Brinson turned shit around last year. GTFO of here on delusional. You've gone from ultra-homer to the sky is falling where it has always been in the middle of that.

BTW - Mel told the Miami Herald Meyer is a reliever. So if you're counting on him in the rotation, you may be surprised. re: is there a surplus?

[lou]

christ you're delusional. What on earth do you think you are getting for those guys.

Meyer/Eder- both coming off TJ, not getting anything that will make an impact next year. YOU LOVE THEM AND ARE YOUR PITCHING SOLUTION
Salas/Cappe/Watson- all talented, not a top 100 prospect in the bunch, again, youre not getting anything that will make an impact next year. SALAS IS TOP 100 IDIOT
Anderson/Wendle/Rojas/Berti- all shit. Not getting anything impactful for next year. WENDLE GOT A SOLID FV45 PROSPECT AND ALL GREAT 2/3RD PLAYERS IN DEALS
Cooper- im sure teams are clammoring for a 1b/DH only whose hand is magnetically connected to the ball when hitting and cant stay healthy and is going on age 32 coming off a .752 OPS season. THROW IN OR RELIEVER
Sanchez/Bleday- again, wtf do you think you are getting for these players AS A 3RD/4TH PLAYER IN A DEAL EXCELLENT BUY LOW. THIS IS THE TYPE OF GUY THE MARLINS WILL TRADE FOR THIS OFFSEASON MORE THAN LIKELY AND YOU'LL CALL THEM BRILLIANT. CALLING MY SHOT HERE
Jerar/Burdick- again, wtf do you think you are getting for these players. SEE ABOVE
Lewis/Morisette- again, wtf do you think you are getting for these players. VERY GOOD 3RD/4TH PLAYER FOR A REBUILD.

What on earth do you think you will acquire with a bunch of hurt or mid level prospects just thrown in the same deal other than a still shitty lineup and an even more decimated hitting farm system. you;re like the fantasy manager who thinks throwing a bunch of shit in the same trade will get you a stud. Nobody wants to give up quality for shit quantity.

It's simple, you do what the rays would do. You deal a guy a year early when his value is at it's absolute highest it will ever be when you have no intention or real need to ever re-sign him long term, you get 2 studs to help the lineup, you sign a stop gap innings eater and 2 bullpen arms, and you move onto next year. That's the best you can do and you preserve the ridiculous cheap pitching talent you have and still address the long term dearth of talent in the lineup.

As for what on earth

Anderson, Fulton (who you omitted which is a bad oversight per usual), Sanchez, and Morisette probably get you A. Rosario and J. Naylor. Anderson is a better positional fit at 3B/OF with their exceptional MI depth, likewise buying low on one of the Marlins many OF, and the prize is Fulton and Morisette as a flyer prospect. Rosario is then resigned for years and is a 2.5+ WAR player at SS turning 27. Naylor is just a cheaper Cooper for 1B and hope for the best.

Meyer/Eder, Salas, Cooper, and Jerar/Burdick ---> Alek Thomas and other non-top talent. They have Carroll, Varsho, McCarthy, and other OF in the system, and everyone is right handed. So you get them three right handed bats and a real prize sitting on one of the SP for years. There are *many* ways to get a CF here with how these teams line up.

And there you have it. You got a FV55/60 CF, a 2.5+ WAR SS, and maybe Naylor is coming into his own.

Pablo is still around, and so is Eury.

So WTF ARE YOU talking about?


EDIT - Do this and control years per position. This completely negates a position "the farm is destroyed" as practically, the team will need to sign flyer LF/DH/RP to plug holes for cheap as everything else is here. The farm can't be destroyed as you don't really need it so you build it back up 22 and 23 and you still haven't tapped into it beyond 4-5 guys which is great.

Fortes (5) with Stallings, Mack, and Henry
Naylor (3) with Berry, Johnston
Jazz (4) with Watson/Cappe
Rosario (4-5) assuming resign, with Watson/Nunez
Groshans (6), with Berry, Cappe, Wendle
For LF, you have three of Bleday, Burdick, Sanchez, Jerar, and DLC still
Thomas (6)
Garcia (3)
Soler (1-2), with Berry
Rotation (5 years is set with Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Eury, Garrett, Rogers, Meyer/Eder, Sixto)
Relievers (need more, but have a bunch of middle tier guys with Bender and Poteet)


This is objectively good if they can pull something off like this. If one of Meyer/Eder, one of Salas/Watson/Cappe, Fulton, and 4-5 mid-tier guys in the farm and some nominal Cooper guys need to be sacrificed, so be it.

As continually said, sign 250 innings and Pablo becomes much easier to move, and ring the bell of sadness Meyer/Bender/Poteet are hurt as those guys could have done it internally for under $3m next year.

[sports24/7]

Kim Ng once again said last night that she doesn’t think the Marlins record is indicative of the roster. On one hand, what’s she supposed to say? But on the other hand, I worry she really believes that. Or at least believes it to the extent that they don’t feel an urgency to make major additions. You could argue their roster wasn’t bottom 7 in the league, but it was never even close to good enough to contend and had major holes. If she can’t realize that, there’s no hope.

[fish16]

As for what on earth

Anderson, Fulton (who you omitted which is a bad oversight per usual), Sanchez, and Morisette probably get you A. Rosario and J. Naylor. Anderson is a better positional fit at 3B/OF with their exceptional MI depth, likewise buying low on one of the Marlins many OF, and the prize is Fulton and Morisette as a flyer prospect. Rosario is then resigned for years and is a 2.5+ WAR player at SS turning 27. Naylor is just a cheaper Cooper for 1B and hope for the best.

Meyer/Eder, Salas, Cooper, and Jerar/Burdick ---> Alek Thomas and other non-top talent. They have Carroll, Varsho, McCarthy, and other OF in the system, and everyone is right handed. So you get them three right handed bats and a real prize sitting on one of the SP for years. There are *many* ways to get a CF here with how these teams line up.

And there you have it. You got a FV55/60 CF, a 2.5+ WAR SS, and maybe Naylor is coming into his own.

Pablo is still around, and so is Eury.

So WTF ARE YOU talking about?


EDIT - Do this and control years per position. This completely negates a position "the farm is destroyed" as practically, the team will need to sign flyer LF/DH/RP to plug holes for cheap as everything else is here. The farm can't be destroyed as you don't really need it so you build it back up 22 and 23 and you still haven't tapped into it beyond 4-5 guys which is great.

Fortes (5) with Stallings, Mack, and Henry
Naylor (3) with Berry, Johnston
Jazz (4) with Watson/Cappe
Rosario (4-5) assuming resign, with Watson/Nunez
Groshans (6), with Berry, Cappe, Wendle
For LF, you have three of Bleday, Burdick, Sanchez, Jerar, and DLC still
Thomas (6)
Garcia (3)
Soler (1-2), with Berry
Rotation (5 years is set with Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Eury, Garrett, Rogers, Meyer/Eder, Sixto)
Relievers (need more, but have a bunch of middle tier guys with Bender and Poteet)


This is objectively good if they can pull something off like this. If one of Meyer/Eder, one of Salas/Watson/Cappe, Fulton, and 4-5 mid-tier guys in the farm and . some nominal Cooper guys need to be sacrificed, so be it.

As continually said, sign 250 innings and Pablo becomes much easier to move, and ring the bell of sadness Meyer/Bender/Poteet are hurt as those guys could have done it internally for under $3m next year.

Stop with the Wendle/Berti/Rojas/Anderson are great 2nd/3rd pieces in a deal. They are mediocre veterans who arent making the minimum. they are non-tender candidates on most teams. Not a one of them can hit for shit. not a single team would find them as anything other than throw ins as not one of them are major league starters. Let alone the fact that you arent getting jack shit for those guys as far as anything that can help the lineup next year or long term. Anderson has been bad for 2 straight years. Jon Berti's last 2 years have been a .648 OPS and a .624 OPS. Miguel rojas had a .605 OPS last year. Wendle had a .658 OPS this year as opposed to the .777 and .741 OPS he had the previous 2 years and is a year away from free agency and due 6.3 million next year. I wouldnt be surprised if they decline his team option. None of those pieces are remotely attractive in a trade and you arent getting anything to help the lineup out of any of those guys.

Cooper is not worth anything. He is an oft injured corner infield/DH guy who is going to make 4+ million next year and cant stay healthy. How many offseasons do you have to see where guys even better than him simply get non-tendered and sign small deals elsewhere. He is not remotely valuable in a trade to another team for anything more than a flier reliever, which again does nothing to help the team next year fix their biggest problem.

you are delusional. Why on earth would the Indians do that? Anderson has no value. He is the definition of a mediocre player coming off 2 straight injury riddled years with a below .715 OPS, and this year at .657. He has no value. You think teams are clammoring for him at over 5 million next year a year from free agency? Fulton has value, that's why i didnt include him, but you could just keep him and deal pablo. Jesus sanchez you'd be trading at his absolute lowest value and he is a platoon bat moving forward. Morisette is a 22 year old in high A who produced a .713 OPS this year. In what world do you think those pieces get you Naylor and Amed Rosario, 2 guys who combined for 4 WAR this year? Why on earth would that be remotely appealing to the Indians? They'd be giving up far and away the 2 best players in the deal for Dax Fulton essentially and a potential platoon bat in Jesus sanchez who has had character issues? Naylor is not a cheaper cooper, he's a cheaper, better, and significantly younger cooper.

Alek Thomas was one of the best prospects in baseball with 6 years of team control. To start last year he was a consensus top 40 prospect in baseball, and then mashed in AAA before coming up. 2 guys coming off of TJ surgery who are promising but why on earth would they trade a lineup piece already in the big leagues and one of the best prospects in baseball for that, a SS flier in Salas who is promising but again, no he is not a top 100 guy, a 32 year old cooper for a rebuilding team, and jerar and burdick who are mid tier prospects. Again, you think you can combine shit and have it become something other than shit for a stud lineup talent.

none of those deals are remotely intriguing to the teams they are being offered to.

And yes, even if meyer is a reliever. there is still a surplus if you dont empty the surplus on ridiculous trades that have 0 shot of even being entertained. Sandy, Cabrera, Luzardo, Eder, Rogers, Garrett, Eury, Fulton, plus lower level guys like Miller and fliers like Mccambley and Millbrandt.

[fish16]

they had the 7th highest starting pitcher ERA this year without Luzardo or Cabrera pitching the whole year and without Rogers being remotely competent until the end of the year. They also have the whole best starting pitcher in baseball thing starting 20% of their games. That number is actually brought up by pablo's 3.75 ERA. They have Eury, Meyer, Eder, and fulton in the cards. They scored the 27th most runs in baseball. Pablo is a free agent in 2 years, they will not re-sign him, and his value will never be higher. This isnt that complicated. They are more than fine next year and beyond. You need maybe 1 insurance policy arm for cheap to eat some innings if need be. This really isnt that complicated. He should have been dealt at the deadline. This isnt a rotation that craters simply because he is gone with full years of cabrera and luzardo and eury eventually coming up mid year, plus rogers hopefully returning to form. Our rotation compared to the vast majority of the league even without pablo is still likely top 10.

Also, they scored the 27th most runs in baseball this year and 29th last year. This isnt as complicated as it's being made out to be. you deal a guy at his highest value who you wont be re-signing and more than enough talent behind him in the system. good teams trade him. We'll see what this incompetent franchise will do.

[lou]

Kim Ng once again said last night that she doesn’t think the Marlins record is indicative of the roster. On one hand, what’s she supposed to say? But on the other hand, I worry she really believes that. Or at least believes it to the extent that they don’t feel an urgency to make major additions. You could argue their roster wasn’t bottom 7 in the league, but it was never even close to good enough to contend and had major holes. If she can’t realize that, there’s no hope.

She's right. They have been injured AF and have lost 40 1 run games. Neither of those things likely happen to the same degree next year. And that's ignoring Garcia/Soler/Stallings/Rogers/others likely being better even if not world beaters.

I would say the problem is what does she think is indicative of the roster? Because it's probably 80 wins firing on all cylinders and that is not a playoff team. I do think they understand this but we'll see.

[lou]

Stop with the Wendle/Berti/Rojas/Anderson are great 2nd/3rd pieces in a deal. They are mediocre veterans who arent making the minimum. they are non-tender candidates on most teams. Not a one of them can hit for shit. not a single team would find them as anything other than throw ins as not one of them are major league starters. Let alone the fact that you arent getting jack shit for those guys as far as anything that can help the lineup next year or long term. Anderson has been bad for 2 straight years. Jon Berti's last 2 years have been a .648 OPS and a .624 OPS. Miguel rojas had a .605 OPS last year. Wendle had a .658 OPS this year as opposed to the .777 and .741 OPS he had the previous 2 years and is a year away from free agency and due 6.3 million next year. I wouldnt be surprised if they decline his team option. None of those pieces are remotely attractive in a trade and you arent getting anything to help the lineup out of any of those guys.

Cooper is not worth anything. He is an oft injured corner infield/DH guy who is going to make 4+ million next year and cant stay healthy. How many offseasons do you have to see where guys even better than him simply get non-tendered and sign small deals elsewhere. He is not remotely valuable in a trade to another team for anything more than a flier reliever, which again does nothing to help the team next year fix their biggest problem.

you are delusional. Why on earth would the Indians do that? Anderson has no value. He is the definition of a mediocre player coming off 2 straight injury riddled years with a below .715 OPS, and this year at .657. He has no value. You think teams are clammoring for him at over 5 million next year a year from free agency? Fulton has value, that's why i didnt include him, but you could just keep him and deal pablo. Jesus sanchez you'd be trading at his absolute lowest value and he is a platoon bat moving forward. Morisette is a 22 year old in high A who produced a .713 OPS this year. In what world do you think those pieces get you Naylor and Amed Rosario, 2 guys who combined for 4 WAR this year? Why on earth would that be remotely appealing to the Indians? They'd be giving up far and away the 2 best players in the deal for Dax Fulton essentially and a potential platoon bat in Jesus sanchez who has had character issues? Naylor is not a cheaper cooper, he's a cheaper, better, and significantly younger cooper.

Alek Thomas was one of the best prospects in baseball with 6 years of team control. To start last year he was a consensus top 40 prospect in baseball, and then mashed in AAA before coming up. 2 guys coming off of TJ surgery who are promising but why on earth would they trade a lineup piece already in the big leagues and one of the best prospects in baseball for that, a SS flier in Salas who is promising but again, no he is not a top 100 guy, a 32 year old cooper for a rebuilding team, and jerar and burdick who are mid tier prospects. Again, you think you can combine shit and have it become something other than shit for a stud lineup talent.

none of those deals are remotely intriguing to the teams they are being offered to.

And yes, even if meyer is a reliever. there is still a surplus if you dont empty the surplus on ridiculous trades that have 0 shot of even being entertained. Sandy, Cabrera, Luzardo, Eder, Rogers, Garrett, Eury, Fulton, plus lower level guys like Miller and fliers like Mccambley and Millbrandt.

I appreciate still fighting while drowning, but seriously get some perspective.

I find it very amusing all of the Marlins role players - who were argued to be very good trade deadline acquisitions and why did idiot Kim not trade them - are now shit and non-tender candidates. Like I said - you need to level out to the middle. They were never an 88 win team and likewise the sky isn't falling. Also please don't cherry pick the stats. Berti has a 2.5 WAR his last 700 PA. Anderson is universally loved by scouts (cite Miami Herald) and think he's a solid starter when healthy, but best used as a #6/7 hitter on a good team. Cheap in a contract year is 2023. Everyone likes Wendle as a top bench asset and gel guy, and Rojas is still a premium bench defender at minimum. These guys are low end starters/desirable bench players which is FINE. Get over it. They are excellent 2/3rd players in deals for a cheap starter for a contender or premier bench guy. Way better than most free agents. Go look at the list.

I do agree though, Cooper has the lowest value of the bunch but I think some time will like his profile and they could net a potential RP. Maybe I am wrong there.

So you agree Fulton has great value and explains why the GUARDIANS would do that? As stated, Anderson is not devoid of value. His ZIPS projection is 2.1 WAR next year. Rosario is 2.4. It's a close-ish swap, but Fulton and a 40 man optionable OF make up the difference with Naylor (who they also don't need). But yea, sounds good to continually being irrationally angry after the failed 88 win season. It makes a ton of sense once you calm down.

As for Arizona, because they have a major OF + lefty bat glut, and Meyer/Eder + a top 100 guy with Salas, with throw ins may be enough to get a guy off a lower impact rookie season. His stock is down a little so go for it. I would routinely take swings on guys like this ala Marsh. Sometimes it won't work out, but take those swings and you're in business when it hits. Or trade Eury for Carroll. It's also just an idea/example but Thomas or McCarthy are RIPE to being traded right now and you can probably get them without Eury and Pablo which was my point.

And you're not convincing anyone with a clue about a SP glut when your 7th-11th SP for 2022 are Eury (Mel told Miami Herald this week there should be patience), Eder (hasn't pitched), Sixto (hasn't pitched), Neidert (is he anything?), and Fulton (20 in AA. Needs 2 years probably). There. Is. No. Depth. For. 2023. Unless you want to project E. Hernandez into something? Or they sign magical SP for cheap and get another Thompson before he sucks again? This depth you want is for post 2023 absent a miracle when Meyer/Poteet are healthy, and everyone has larger innings capabilities on arms. Especially Cabrera and Eury. It's that easy.


3 bats and 2 relievers, keep the MLB SP. That's the perfect offseason.

[Nick]

Brian Anderson has only played in half of the games in the last 2 years and put up a sub-.700 OPS. The guy has no value.