2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Todd]

It's almost like hiring a person who had not been part of a front office in over a decade and when she was prior she had no part of transactions or personnel moves and was mostly just a glorified accountant making sure the numbers in arbitration cases added up wasn't the best choice to be GM. She also seems to, when she discusses the game, to not actually know much about baseball. She always sounds like she is reading the back of a baseball card with only a marginal understanding of what she is reading.

[Namaste]

One thing most of us hated about Loria is that he was involved in baseball decisions. And often very bad baseball decisions. I know what Bruce Sherman’s voice sounds like. I don’t need to hear more of it

With that said, hearing Ng speak on the broadcast last night (and at other times prior to last night) does not inspire confidence in the direction of the team.

[Lee Stone]

Which is why you pencil him into the bullpen as the 6th SP

sandy Pablo luzardo Cabrera rogers
____, Floro (probably?), Bender, Poteet
scott, bleier, okert, garrett

AAA - Eury, Eder, Sixto, Neidert, Nardi, others

This is good

I don’t know how to fix the offense, but this is really deep with another solid reliever

Alcantara in 2022: ..96 WHIP and .194 BAA
Garrett in 2022: .92 WHIP and .197 BAA

[Nick]

Alcantara in 2022: ..96 WHIP and .194 BAA
Garrett in 2022: .92 WHIP and .197 BAA

Where are you getting your stats? Garrett has a 1.155 WHIP and .238 BAA.

[fish16]

Getting angry over hypothetical deals in your head that were likely never offered is pretty dumb

asking for gavin lux and 3 prospects is dumb. it's exactly what I said the other day- they are overvaluing pablo and holding back the team as a result because for 3 years they have been scared to pull the trigger on any deal from the surplus of pitching while they watch this terrible lineup night in and night out. Lux for pablo straight up would have been an amazing trade, and they asked for 3 prospects on top of him. just complete mismanagement.

[fish16]

One thing most of us hated about Loria is that he was involved in baseball decisions. And often very bad baseball decisions. I know what Bruce Sherman’s voice sounds like. I don’t need to hear more of it

With that said, hearing Ng speak on the broadcast last night (and at other times prior to last night) does not inspire confidence in the direction of the team.

it's not about having him interfere in baseball decisions, it's about knowing what the fuck he stands for and what he prioritizes when it comes to this team he just bought for 1.2 billion only to then not invest any other money and have a bottom 5 payroll yet again. he speaks once a year, says nothing, spends no money, and his team has absolutely no coherent strategy to win in the margins if the payroll is going to be so low, which it shouldn't be. There is no leadership in this organization from top to bottom. there are 0 repercussions for anyone in this entire organization for poor performance. Mattingly, ng, and countless shit players this year are all the evidence you need that we are a rudderless organization with no vision. MIcky Arison doesn't interfere in basketball decisions at all but you know what he stands for and he is a tremendous leader and face of the organization as a whole. Everything that team does and stands for both on and off the field comes from ownership down to the court, and they do everything in their power to win year in and year out.

Even stephen ross, for all of his idiotic behavior, wants to win. He invested a ton of his own money into fixing the stadium, and even though he does it stupidly, he does everything possible to try to put a winning team on the field. Sherman has shown no indication he cares about anything other than time passing and the potential return on his investment in the future. Nothing he has done indicates any semblance of a care about whether this team is good or bad.

[lou]

asking for gavin lux and 3 prospects is dumb. it's exactly what I said the other day- they are overvaluing pablo and holding back the team as a result because for 3 years they have been scared to pull the trigger on any deal from the surplus of pitching while they watch this terrible lineup night in and night out. Lux for pablo straight up would have been an amazing trade, and they asked for 3 prospects on top of him. just complete mismanagement.

Who were the prospects?

Because if they were FV40 guys who were going to get bounced from their upcoming 40 man roster crunch, makes sense. As well, was Cooper or a RP in that deal?

What was the trade offer, and if you don't know, I again ask why are you working yourself up for a hypothetical trade scenario in your head.

[lou]

One thing most of us hated about Loria is that he was involved in baseball decisions. And often very bad baseball decisions. I know what Bruce Sherman’s voice sounds like. I don’t need to hear more of it

With that said, hearing Ng speak on the broadcast last night (and at other times prior to last night) does not inspire confidence in the direction of the team.

I don't think her comments matter in the grand scheme of things. No reason to talk about a Pablo extension today. They have control over all players so they aren't losing anyone - Aguilar sucks and doesn't count here. The only thing that annoys me a little at the deadline is not moving Floro/Okert/Bleier if that was possible. Seems like you could max them out this week, but practically this is an outside top 15-20 prospect for them so does this matter? They got a guy better than that (Williams! He's good!) for free earlier in the year.

I have moderately low confidence but it's because Bruce won't spend even $90m, let alone the $110m which would make them great. Really nothing Kim can do can make a contender at sub $80m. Nothing. Berry has to become JD Martinez, Eury has to become Randy Johnson, Groshans has to become Chris Taylor, Rogers has to become his 2021 self, and Bleday has to become Brian Giles for them to really contend at this budget. Soto/Machado/Tatis and Acuna/Albies/Olson/Riley is another level and those guys are together for years.

[lou]

it's not about having him interfere in baseball decisions, it's about knowing what the fuck he stands for and what he prioritizes when it comes to this team he just bought for 1.2 billion only to then not invest any other money and have a bottom 5 payroll yet again. he speaks once a year, says nothing, spends no money, and his team has absolutely no coherent strategy to win in the margins if the payroll is going to be so low, which it shouldn't be. There is no leadership in this organization from top to bottom. there are 0 repercussions for anyone in this entire organization for poor performance. Mattingly, ng, and countless shit players this year are all the evidence you need that we are a rudderless organization with no vision. MIcky Arison doesn't interfere in basketball decisions at all but you know what he stands for and he is a tremendous leader and face of the organization as a whole. Everything that team does and stands for both on and off the field comes from ownership down to the court, and they do everything in their power to win year in and year out.

Even stephen ross, for all of his idiotic behavior, wants to win. He invested a ton of his own money into fixing the stadium, and even though he does it stupidly, he does everything possible to try to put a winning team on the field. Sherman has shown no indication he cares about anything other than time passing and the potential return on his investment in the future. Nothing he has done indicates any semblance of a care about whether this team is good or bad.

Yes Bruce is the core problem. He needs to spend some money on payroll. And not even a lot. Bottom 23-25 would be amazing.

At this point in the season, keeping Mattingly is whatever. If they retain him for next year, I'll join you on the rudderless ship as holy shit. Also the team is VERY injured. They don't really have an option to bench anyone, and it behooves them to keep sending out Garcia/Stallings/etc. to see if they snap out of this, while giving the PA to Bleday, Sanchez, etc. for their own youth development. Some of the in-game and lineup decisions seem baffling at a glance, but that can be fixed next year. Frankly, I think Bruce ordered Mattingly on the FO to not give out a new 3-5 year manager deal this last offseason. I am just speculating though.

Practically speaking, they need two major bat upgrades next year and the team is going to look very good on paper. They have to do that though through whatever combination of FA or trades. I presume they should do one of each, hence, I feel strongly they can fit in a Correa/Xander/Trea/Nimmo/Swanson into a $90-95m budget which should be the floor here. We shall see.

[Lee Stone]

Where are you getting your stats? Garrett has a 1.155 WHIP and .238 BAA.

2022 Marlins Player Pitching Stats | Miami Marlins (mlb.com)

[Nick]

2022 Marlins Player Pitching Stats | Miami Marlins (mlb.com)

Yeah not sure what happened there, but those numbers aren't correct.

See:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garrebr01.shtml

[lou]

Alcantara in 2022: ..96 WHIP and .194 BAA
Garrett in 2022: .92 WHIP and .197 BAA

I just clicked the link and those stats are not updated.

https://www.fangraphs.com/teams/marlins < - This will work

Also if you are suggesting Garrett is anywhere close to Sandy.... I have no words. That being said, Garrett's development is outstanding and a huge organizational win if this holds up.

[Erick]

I just clicked the link and those stats are not updated.

https://www.fangraphs.com/teams/marlins < - This will work

Also if you are suggesting Garrett is anywhere close to Sandy.... I have no words. That being said, Garrett's development is outstanding and a huge organizational win if this holds up.

They are updated.

For some reason, Lee only cares about pitching stats when the bases are empty.

[lou]

They are updated.

For some reason, Lee only cares about pitching stats when the bases are empty.

LOL

In any event, Garrett is good. He is not Sandy. But if he turns into a # 4/5 (or more?)..... Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Garrett, and Rogers/Cabrera is lethal. Imagine Rogers and Cabrera just combining for 4+ innings every 5th day and avoid 3rd time through lineup basically and each throwing 125+ innings so to speak. Rogers threw 133 IP last year to a 4+ WAR. So, impact can be made max effort here.

You could stack this

Sandy
Luzardo
Pablo (this is just to break up lefties, he is the #2 on paper)
Rogers/Cabrera (ideally pitch the entire game with no relievers. Both of them 4+)
Garrett (all the relievers are ready because Rogers/Cabrera gave them mostly an off day and Sandy gives them an off day tomorrow so to speak)

This could be great if Garret can get you 160 IP next year. He threw 115 IP in 2021 and is 86 IP and counting right now with likely 11 starts to go, so he could comfortably get to 135-140 IP this year if he can handle it.

You can see the keep Pablo vision and then reshuffle with Eury/Eder/Meyer when they are ready.

[Nick]

If Garrett continues to pitch at the level he has for the rest of the season, he definitely will have earned 2023 rotation spot. And really I think only Pablo and Sandy have penciled their names in for the 2023 rotation as of yet. (assuming Pablo is back of course)

I don't think anyone could've predicted the pitching situation to play out that way, but here we are.