2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[sports24/7]

FWIW Mish said they called on Laureano, and moved on. He insinuated somewhere that they don’t love the fact that he has to sit out a month.

Personally, I think that’s shortsighted if they choose nothing over that.

[rmc523]

FWIW Mish said they called on Laureano, and moved on. He insinuated somewhere that they don’t love the fact that he has to sit out a month.

Personally, I think that’s shortsighted if they choose nothing over that.

Agreed, while not ideal, if you feel he's "your guy" for the spot, you put up with the 28 days or whatever it is he's out.

[fauowls44]

For me, it's not a criticism of adding Soler. If they go out and still land a big CF bat, I actually think signing him is a good idea. To me, though, the move worries me because I think they could see it as the last significant move they make and justify not trading for a good player. I'm very worried that this is what happens now, especially on the heels of what Ng said the other day.

Also, if I have it right, the terms of this deal aren't great for Miami. The money is fine, but if he has a big year, he'll opt out. If he's closer to his career averages, he'll stay and be overpaid. That part feels like a mistake.

The opt outs don't really bother me much. If he has a big year and opts out, I would think the chances are pretty good the Marlins would re-sign him. He's a Cuban guy that already live in Miami...if he's successful here, he's kind of the Marlins dream player. His deal already pays him $15 million next year. I don't think he's the type of player a team would throw a $100+ million deal at at age 31. Perhaps he'd be in line for Schwarber-level money, and kind of feel like that is the limit where the Marlins would be comfortable spending on a free agent right now. And say he does hit closer to his career averages and he doesn't opt out, 2 years, $24 million with an opt out remaining is still a deal you can live with for a guy that will likely give you 20 homers even in a down year.

[fauowls44]

Agreed, while not ideal, if you feel he's "your guy" for the spot, you put up with the 28 days or whatever it is he's out.

From what I took from Mish's comments on him, it wasn't just the 27 days remaining on the suspension. It was also that he's coming off of surgery and there are questions about how he plays not on PEDs. I would absolutely take the chance on him though but the price has to be right.

[rmc523]

From what I took from Mish's comments on him, it wasn't just the 27 days remaining on the suspension. It was also that he's coming off of surgery and there are questions about how he plays not on PEDs. I would absolutely take the chance on him though but the price has to be right.

Those are fair points as well.

[sports24/7]

The opt outs don't really bother me much. If he has a big year and opts out, I would think the chances are pretty good the Marlins would re-sign him. He's a Cuban guy that already live in Miami...if he's successful here, he's kind of the Marlins dream player. His deal already pays him $15 million next year. I don't think he's the type of player a team would throw a $100+ million deal at at age 31. Perhaps he'd be in line for Schwarber-level money, and kind of feel like that is the limit where the Marlins would be comfortable spending on a free agent right now. And say he does hit closer to his career averages and he doesn't opt out, 2 years, $24 million with an opt out remaining is still a deal you can live with for a guy that will likely give you 20 homers even in a down year.

Maybe. But the opt outs are just kind of lose-lose for Miami. The benefits favor Soler completely. There may be a world where he performs at about the level he's being paid, and doesn't opt out, but I feel like it's more likely that he either outperforms it and opts out, or underperforms, and it's not a great contract.

[lou]

Here's a question, we spent 4 years and $89-$93 million on Garcia and Soler. Do we have a better team if we spend 4 years and $78 million on Starling Marte? I think I'd take Marte and the extra $11-$15 million.

I'll take Luzardo, Garcia, and Soler. This is mostly based on age 33-36 CF who really needs his speed to be well above average. And, I think Luzardo is going to be pretty good and believe they will "fix" him.

For 2022 alone, it's Marte however.

[Nick]

I'll take Luzardo, Garcia, and Soler. This is mostly based on age 33-36 CF who really needs his speed to be well above average. And, I think Luzardo is going to be pretty good and believe they will "fix" him.

For 2022 alone, it's Marte however.

Well the scenario I was thinking was bringing Marte back post-trade. So still having Luzardo. If reports are true, if we hadn't traded him, we could've re-signed him for much less, but didn't.

I'm not as confident that they'll fix Luzardo, but I'm excited by the possibilities if they do.

[Nick]

Maybe. But the opt outs are just kind of lose-lose for Miami. The benefits favor Soler completely. There may be a world where he performs at about the level he's being paid, and doesn't opt out, but I feel like it's more likely that he either outperforms it and opts out, or underperforms, and it's not a great contract.

I'm on record that I'm not overly enthused by the Soler signing, but if he has another season like 2019, gets paid $16 million and opts out after one season. You chalk that up as a W, $16 million is cheap for that kind of production. That's the best case scenario.

[lou]

Or acquired Ramon Laureano, an elite CF that is performing much as Marte did at this point of his career. Now, let's say the team does acquire Laureano still (or another CF). Given the years provided for Garcia and Soler in their contracts and the presence of Jesus Sanchez, wouldn't that slam the door on Burdick and Bleday? I could see one or both of them become part of a trade package for Laureano (or another CF).

Yes - we have reached our monthly accord!

Soler I am less worried about as a DH type. And that's ignoring I also think he opts out as I think he'll get more guaranteed money than 2/$24 on the open market. He has an .825+ OPS and he's getting better than that and is gone, etc.

In a vacuum, I don't mind the Garcia deal.... but I frankly do not understand it with Sanchez, Bleday, and Burdick. If one can't DH because of Soler, that is potentially major talent on the bench. Of course, Bleday/Burdick may need another 1.5 years in the minors, but if one explodes, it's a problem. This only makes sense if he really is a CF. Then it turns into an AMAZING deal.

I think Bleday is off-limits. I think his draft status/AFL will not let them mentally trade him. I almost agree with this also - hold him for everyone but Reynolds. He's clearly the 2nd best bat in the minors and they need superstar potential hitters.

I agree fully the other has got to go for a CF - and this is practically Burdick. He is a perfect guy in a Laureano package.

They should trade like Meyer/Cabrera (the centerpiece), Burdick, Fulton, I. Lewis/Morisette (really good third and fourth players to make up for no Watson/Eury, as well as mitigate against any PED issues), Jerar, and DLC in a 6-3 for Laureano, Kemp, and Trivino. Alternatively, maybe throw in Sixto/Eder, take out Fulton/Lewis, and add a much lesser prospect instead (McCants, Fitterer, etc.) as well as BASS in a salary dump. You want a 2nd centerpiece - take on $3m bucks!

It adds under $10m in payroll, and if they simultaneously move Cooper to clear another $2.5m.

That's this. Let's say they take Meyer, Sixto, Burdick, Fitterer, Jerar, DLC, and Bass for Laureano, Kemp, and Trivino.

This is low $80s.

Stallings, Fortes
Aguilar
Jazz
Rojas, Berti
Anderson, Wendle
Sanchez, Kemp
Laureano
Garcia
Soler

Sandy, Rogers, Pablo, Hernandez, Luzardo
Trivino, Floro, Bender, Cabrera, Pop, Head
Bleier, Okert

Top 5 prospects - Watson, Eury, Bleday, Salas, Eder


I think we'd all be thrilled and can live without Meyer, Sixto, and Burdick. Every pitcher is controlled next year. Laureano is really good so this needs to hurt a little, but that's where Kemp/Trivino come in to soften that blow and what does Oakland care.

I'm all in for an idea like this.

[fauowls44]

I'll take Luzardo, Garcia, and Soler. This is mostly based on age 33-36 CF who really needs his speed to be well above average. And, I think Luzardo is going to be pretty good and believe they will "fix" him.

For 2022 alone, it's Marte however.

The age thing with Marte was my biggest concern because he needs his speed. Also, he’s currently hurt with an oblique injury. I believe that’s the 2nd time he’s had that sort of injury now in the past few years. Not saying he’s not great…just that I’m not sure that contract will age well.

[lou]

FWIW Mish said they called on Laureano, and moved on. He insinuated somewhere that they don’t love the fact that he has to sit out a month.

Personally, I think that’s shortsighted if they choose nothing over that.

Very short sighted.

DeShields can play defense for a month, and let the circus of Sanchez/Garcia bash out there. Laureano is only controlled 3 seasons, but he could be a 5-7 year CF. If he comes back and the PEDs don't impact, I think we are talking arbitration buyouts for him, Rogers, Jazz, and maybe Sanchez.

[lou]

Maybe. But the opt outs are just kind of lose-lose for Miami. The benefits favor Soler completely. There may be a world where he performs at about the level he's being paid, and doesn't opt out, but I feel like it's more likely that he either outperforms it and opts out, or underperforms, and it's not a great contract.

That's the thing about the negative - it's half the price of Schwarber and 1/3rd Castellanos. Soler also hits lefties so he's just an over priced lefty masher. I don't see much downside here at all. He'll have to be 2020/pre-all star level for it to be a total loss. They did a good job of minimizing downside.

[lou]

Well the scenario I was thinking was bringing Marte back post-trade. So still having Luzardo. If reports are true, if we hadn't traded him, we could've re-signed him for much less, but didn't.

I'm not as confident that they'll fix Luzardo, but I'm excited by the possibilities if they do.

Sorry my bad there.

I'm still not signing Marte. The age/years are bad.

[Lee Stone]

I like today's opening lineup vs Scherzer. Follow Mets at Marlins game FREE with MLB Gameday