2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[emkayseven]

Rodon should be a pretty obvious target, but given that we had waiver priority and didn't claim Miley on a friendly $10M contract, I can't imagine us going after Rodon.

Would also like to see us in the mix for Seiya Suzuki -- I know it's a longshot, but realistically, the posting price plus FA contract is still likely to be cheaper than any other chance of acquiring a 26 year old outfielder with impact potential.

[lou]

Miami Herald on C/CF - https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...mainstage_card

TLDR - They think Carson Kelly and Max Stassi aren't very intriguing, but they really like Stallings even if he is glove first and Mitch Garver is interesting. For CF, they LOVE Bryan Reynolds, are intrigued by Byron Buxton, and free agency sucks and Manuel Margot may be "best option" there.


Personally, I will stop being a fan if Manuel Margot is the solution, unless he is being signed to replace De La Cruz/Cooper as a bench player.

I find it interesting the Herald is pumping two team options here - Reynolds/Stallings and Buxton/Garver. I can get behind both of those as long as Marlins don't dramatically overpay.

I'm also fine if they do BOTH of those trades and demolish the farm to get all 4 of them. Go with Meyer, Watson, Burdick, McCambley, and Misner/Scott for Reynolds/Stallings and Eder, Fulton, and Fortes/Jackson for the Twins.

They'd look awesome and still have Eury, Bleday, Nicolas, Salas, Cappe, Nunez, I. Lewis, Misner/Scott etc. in the farm with strong draft picks coming in 22. We can dream.

Also just spend money and keep everyone. That works too.

[Lee Stone]

Miami Herald on C/CF - https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...mainstage_card

TLDR - They think Carson Kelly and Max Stassi aren't very intriguing, but they really like Stallings even if he is glove first and Mitch Garver is interesting. For CF, they LOVE Bryan Reynolds, are intrigued by Byron Buxton, and free agency sucks and Manuel Margot may be "best option" there.


Personally, I will stop being a fan if Manuel Margot is the solution, unless he is being signed to replace De La Cruz/Cooper as a bench player.

I find it interesting the Herald is pumping two team options here - Reynolds/Stallings and Buxton/Garver. I can get behind both of those as long as Marlins don't dramatically overpay.

I'm also fine if they do BOTH of those trades and demolish the farm to get all 4 of them. Go with Meyer, Watson, Burdick, McCambley, and Misner/Scott for Reynolds/Stallings and Eder, Fulton, and Fortes/Jackson for the Twins.

They'd look awesome and still have Eury, Bleday, Nicolas, Salas, Cappe, Nunez, I. Lewis, Misner/Scott etc. in the farm with strong draft picks coming in 22. We can dream.

Also just spend money and keep everyone. That works too.

Instead of looking at high prospect and forthcoming salary cost for a young star like K Marte or B Reynolds or B Buxton, I'd be looking for prospects that may emerge in their likeness. These guys would have full team control and the opportunity to grow together. The frontline Miami starting pitchers are the bait that will fetch those (hopefully) future stars.

[sports24/7]

Instead of looking at high prospect and forthcoming salary cost for a young star like K Marte or B Reynolds or B Buxton, I'd be looking for prospects that may emerge in their likeness. These guys would have full team control and the opportunity to grow together. The frontline Miami starting pitchers are the bait that will fetch those (hopefully) future stars.

The thing is, they can't afford to wait on prospects. They need to win now (and are supposedly making that a priority). There's no chance this ownership group is going to be able to sell the fanbase on selling more established players for prospects.

[lou]

The thing is, they can't afford to wait on prospects. They need to win now (and are supposedly making that a priority). There's no chance this ownership group is going to be able to sell the fanbase on selling more established players for prospects.

This times 1000x. This is year 5 of the new regime. What is this, a 7 year rebuild and we're trading off all the 2/3 year of control guys to get more 5/6 year of control guys? When payroll for over 20-22 spots on the field is currently in house hovering $40-45m? No Lee. No. There is no more waiting "for them to grow together." The entire core is at the MLB level this all star break.

It's win now. They have the team, but for 4-5 pieces, and they have the money and trade assets to address all remaining spots.

6+ years of control and nearly MLB ready - Meyer, Bleday, Burdick, and maybe Nicolas, Misner, etc.
6 years of control - Cabrera, Sixto, J. Sanchez, L. Diaz, Z. Thompson, Holloway, Neidert, Garrett, Poteet, De La Cruz, Okert, Fortes
5 years - Rogers, Jazz, Luzardo, Bender, Pop
4 years -
3 years - Sandy (likely more when buyout happens), Pablo, E. Hernandez, Bleier
2 years - Anderson, M. Rojas, Floro, Cooper
1 year - Aguilar


This team is young and going to grow together as is. This is planting your flag and getting 2-3 guys with 4+ years of control, extending Sandy so you get 2 free agency years, and keeping the guys coming off the books (except maybe Pablo who can be used as a major trade asset) as they are good for depth purposes.

This is going to be a good, borderline great, team if they acquire 2 big bats, 2 more Aguilar/Floro level contributors at presumably catcher and a lefty arm, and another 1-2+ pieces rounding out depth with some luxury upgrades over guys like Okert, De La Cruz, Fortes, etc.

The Marlins are always playing for tomorrow. No more with this team.

[rmc523]

Instead of looking at high prospect and forthcoming salary cost for a young star like K Marte or B Reynolds or B Buxton, I'd be looking for prospects that may emerge in their likeness. These guys would have full team control and the opportunity to grow together. The frontline Miami starting pitchers are the bait that will fetch those (hopefully) future stars.

NO. Capital N. Capital O.

No more prospects. If that's their solution, bye! I want proven players of some sort. Time for them to put up and prove the pundits wrong, or shut up and lose die hard fans forever.

[rmc523]

MLBTR put out their Top 50 FA predictions:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/...-rankings.html

This year seemed a little different in that they had 3 predictions per player from Tim Dierkes, Steve Adams, and Anthony Franco (at least I don't remember them doing it this way before). I included the 4 of them that at least 1 of the 3 predicted for the Marlins.

16. Chris Taylor. Four years, $64MM.

TD: Marlins / SA: Red Sox / AF: Mariners

The Dodgers acquired Taylor from the Mariners in June 2016, as a means of improving infield depth. Taylor added the outfield to his repertoire in a breakout 2017 season, and won the NLCS MVP award that year. Taylor has remained an above-average hitter ever since, and has a 114 wRC+ over the last three seasons. Though he struggled to hit in September this year, “CT3” left a strong final impression with his huge playoff showing. It was Taylor’s walk-off homer that propelled the Dodgers past the Cardinals in the Wild Card round, and he slugged three home runs in Game 5 of the NLCS to help the Dodgers force a Game 6.

Taylor has been deployed at second base, shortstop, third base, center field, and left field in his career. Though he’s sometimes compared to Ben Zobrist, Taylor reaches free agency at an earlier age and with more defensive versatility. He may not have quite the offensive track record Zobrist carried into free agency, but he’s very arguably a more attractive target for teams.

As expected, the Dodgers issued a qualifying offer to Taylor. We expect him to take his shot at a multiyear deal, but certain clubs may shy away from surrendering a draft pick or two to sign him. Taylor’s ability to play all over the diamond still makes him a potential fit for many teams, including the Blue Jays, White Sox, Mariners, Braves, Marlins, Mets, Phillies, Rockies, Giants, and Cubs.


21. Anthony Rizzo. Three years, $45MM.

TD: Marlins / SA: Red Sox / AF: Braves

As the longtime face of the Cubs, it seemed like the club would hammer out an extension with Rizzo even if they intended to take a step back in 2022. He’d already signed a seven-year extension in 2013, which turned into a nine-year contract once both club options were exercised. As of March 31st of this year, Cubs GM Jed Hoyer was “very confident” a deal would get done and Rizzo had used the word “optimistic.” The Cubs’ initial offer was reportedly for five years and $70MM, while Rizzo sought something closer to Paul Goldschmidt’s $130MM deal. An agreement was not reached, and once the Cubs fell out of contention, Rizzo was traded to the Yankees.

At age 32, Rizzo’s play seems more solid than spectacular. He’s posted a 109 wRC+ in 819 plate appearances since 2020, roughly on par with Josh Bell, Jonathan Schoop, Miguel Sano, and Eric Hosmer. To sign Rizzo to a deal well beyond our projection would require placing a large value on intangibles, or expecting him to defy the aging curve and return to his 2019 form. Still, Rizzo is free of a qualifying offer and faces limited competition at first base unless Freddie Freeman and/or Brandon Belt make it to the market. Many clubs could find a spot for him, especially if the NL DH adds flexibility.


24. Avisail Garcia. Three years, $36MM.

TD: Royals / SA: Marlins / AF: Rockies

Garcia, 30, put together a solid season in 2021. He posted a 115 wRC+ with a career-best 29 home runs in 135 games as the Brewers’ right fielder. Defensively, he seems to be at least average, depending on your metric of choice. Garcia has 88th percentile sprint speed and is very strong in most Statcast batting metrics. He’s a player who seems like he could have another level, but that was also true when he signed his two-year deal with the Brewers. Garcia could be a fit for the Marlins, Royals, Rangers, Mets, Cubs, Reds, and Rockies if the Brewers don’t bring him back.

25. Jorge Soler. Three years, $36MM.

TD: Brewers / SA: Rockies / AF: Marlins

Soler defected from Cuba in 2011 and signed a nine-year, $30MM deal with the Cubs. He was a part of the Cubs’ 2016 championship team, but was traded to the Royals for Wade Davis after that season. In 2019, Soler shook off a long injury history to set the Royals’ franchise record with 48 home runs – perhaps in part because he played 107 games at DH and only 56 in the field. Soler played 752 innings in right field this year, his most in the field since 2015 – in part because the Royals traded him to the Braves at the deadline. He’s never been a good fielder, and rated as one of the game’s worst defensive right fielders this year.

Soler struggled mightily in the first half of the season, but from July 20th forward, he posted a 144 wRC+ that ranked 21st in all of baseball. Soler capped his season by winning the World Series MVP, crushing three big home runs against the Astros. 30 in February, Soler lights up Statcast and demonstrated his ceiling back in 2019, even if he played at replacement level overall this year. If the NL gets the DH, Soler could snag a three-year deal.

[Nick]

Trade for Buxton/Garver, Sign Chris Taylor and 1 or 2 top-end relievers and we're ready to rock.

[Nick]

Buxton, Garver, Taylor, Melancon, Loup, bring them in, that's a playoff contender.

[Namaste]

Trevor Rogers ROTY Finalist. Sweet!

[lou]

MLBTR put out their Top 50 FA predictions:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/...-rankings.html

This year seemed a little different in that they had 3 predictions per player from Tim Dierkes, Steve Adams, and Anthony Franco (at least I don't remember them doing it this way before). I included the 4 of them that at least 1 of the 3 predicted for the Marlins.

With Sanchez, Bleday, and Burdick, I think investing 3 years in Avisail or Solar is crazy. Castellanos I can get behind as he is much better and he becomes your DH in 2 years, but I don't get the other two. These corner bats seem like guys you keep right now versus trading.

I can get behind Chris Taylor at 4/$64m very quickly (I think he gets more). He's a nice play everywhere guy. I also like a sneaky signing of Rizzo, especially at 3/$45, as that opens you up to a DFA/trade of Aguilar AND Cooper, and Rizzo/Lewin can be your 1B/DH combo.

Do both of those things and still trade for Buxton/Garver with some collection of Eder, Nicolas, Fulton, etc., and sign a free agent lefty, and you're under $90m.

Or, trade Pablo for someone like B. Marsh and and a lower catcher like Stallings/C. Kelly, and you're under $80M. That's also a really good team

[lou]

Buxton, Garver, Taylor, Melancon, Loup, bring them in, that's a playoff contender.

I'm with you besides Melancon if that is the plan.

Sandy, Rogers, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera/Hernandez
Bender, Floro, Thompson, Pop (I think they love him), Hernandez/Cabrera
Loup, Bleier, Okert (him too)

Not listed - Bass
AAA - Sixto, or ditch Bleier and move him up

They can get relievers at the deadline. A lefty makes sense, but not 2 veterans when there is this arm talent. Guys like (Bass), Holloway, Neidert, Poteet, and even Garrett can operate as 12th/13th arms more than likely.

Major depth here after a good lefty. Loup is PERFECT.

[emkayseven]

I've been burned too many times to think they'll actually do anything remotely close to the above suggestions. I think an Avisail Garcia signing is on the high end of what I'm expecting.

[Nick]

I'm with you besides Melancon if that is the plan.

Sandy, Rogers, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera/Hernandez
Bender, Floro, Thompson, Pop (I think they love him), Hernandez/Cabrera
Loup, Bleier, Okert (him too)

Not listed - Bass
AAA - Sixto, or ditch Bleier and move him up

They can get relievers at the deadline. A lefty makes sense, but not 2 veterans when there is this arm talent. Guys like (Bass), Holloway, Neidert, Poteet, and even Garrett can operate as 12th/13th arms more than likely.

Major depth here after a good lefty. Loup is PERFECT.

I don't see how you can put Pop on there and then say we don't need another arm. You gotta win games at the beginning of the season so you're in a position to make moves at the deadline.

and as far as being burned too many times. Most of the burns have been done by the Loria regime. The new FO hasn't given any indication that they're going to spend money, but for me it's now or never, you can make excuses as to why we haven't spent up until this point, those excuses no longer work after this off-season and I think that's something that pretty much every Marlin fan can agree on.

[lou]

I don't see how you can put Pop on there and then say we don't need another arm. You gotta win games at the beginning of the season so you're in a position to make moves at the deadline.

and as far as being burned too many times. Most of the burns have been done by the Loria regime. The new FO hasn't given any indication that they're going to spend money, but for me it's now or never, you can make excuses as to why we haven't spent up until this point, those excuses no longer work after this off-season and I think that's something that pretty much every Marlin fan can agree on.

I think they really like Pop getting stronger off his arm injuries - it's a hunch.

Likewise, push Pop off that depth chart and add Sixto if we want to talk about other arms. I've already pushed Bass off the team too, and he's probably a sub 4.00 era reliever (he shockingly was last year somehow). I think they are fine with pitchers. There are 1450 innings here with a vet bullpen lefty being added. I can get behind a Jon Gray type signing if Pablo/Sixto/Cabrera/Hernandez is traded for a bat, but that would be the only other pitching move I'd make. It all goes back to the bats for me - they need minimum 3, and maybe 4 if someone like Cooper is moved for a better positional fit. Anything beyond a lefty pen arm is a luxury. And by all means, let them wow us and go to a $100m payroll and be able to afford additional luxury upgrades before the trade deadline.

And agree on now or never. They may get 1,000 innings this year out of Sandy, Rogers, Pablo, Luzardo, Sixto, Cabrera, and Hernandez, and Floro, Bender, Thompson, and "a veteran lefty," could easily dump 200+ on top of that. At this point, we're talking about 1+ inning per game on average going to all other pitchers for the entire season, and over half of this could easily be garbage time. It's also not like the Bleier, Pop, Okert, Holloway, Neidert, Garrett, etc. group is devoid of talent either. They are on the cusp of something special if they stay healthy, and "1" of Luzardo/Sixto/Cabrera takes a medium step forward and turns into a #3/really good # 4 SP. It's time to use the payroll flex and minors for the bats. They can't ever be taken seriously if their plan is Yan Gomes, Jarrod Dyson, and Avisail Garcia in free agency.