2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[rmc523]

If Anderson doesn't give you enough pop at third (and he doesn't), how does he give you enough punch in the OF? I think Anderson's time with the club may be nearing an end.

What are your thoughts on Miguel Rojas? See him as a starter in '22?

i think the point is more that there are options - if you can’t find an OF upgrade, maybe you can instead find a 3B upgrade and move BA to the outfield. Therefore upgrading but in a different manner than OF or bust.

[AdamRavs]

If Anderson doesn't give you enough pop at third (and he doesn't), how does he give you enough punch in the OF? I think Anderson's time with the club may be nearing an end.

What are your thoughts on Miguel Rojas? See him as a starter in '22?

3B and 1B should have a ton of pop. Corner OF as BA could be a doubles machine its fine. As Sanchez and whoever we get in CF should add pop.

Rojas's D is solid. His bat is average. I'd prefer Jazz at SS and get a 2b as a stop gab to someone like Osiris comes up.

[lou]

If the Marlins spend money. Which i will believe when I see it. But I think BA should move to the OF. Put him in Left. Sanchez in right. Sign a CF and a 3b with pop. Seager? We've gotta get more pop from 3rd.

Trade or cut Aguilar. Coop and Lewin platoon. With the return of the DH Coop is going to be valuable to us.

Anderson has been a 3 WAR per 600/PA his entire career. If we call 2020/2021 a full year, it was a slight dip to 2.5 WAR being very hurt during a pandemic. If we're looking at just 2021, it was 2.7 WAR pace. I don't understand any knocks on Anderson, unless one thinks he is injured beyond repair. I don't care if he is at 3B or RF. Either works. It's a blessing he can do both, as it allows them to sign, or acquire, a longterm 2B/SS/3B/Corner OF and they can move around Anderson and Rojas in a number of manners to make that work. Hell, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if opening day 2023 was Jazz at SS and Anderson at 2B. I bet he could do that too.

Depending who they get for that starting 2B/SS/3B/Corner OF slot, I can get behind a DFA/trade of one of Aguilar/Cooper and using that money for a more suitable position. We'll see what they do though. C and CF are obvious. The real question mark is who is the third bat as that starts a cascade of what to do with Anderson/Rojas/Aguilar/Cooper/Berti/De La Cruz and one of them may get sacrificed for a better positional option. I do think Aguilar and Cooper are most likely to be gone there as they are redundant with Lewin. They need some guys that field.

[Nick]

I wonder if the Seager brothers would take a discount to come here together. Kyle on a 2-year deal, Corey 6/7 years. /pipedream

[Maddawg]

I wish one of our beat reporters had the balls to ask why this organization would buy a major league baseball team and be content have it's payroll sit at less than half of the league average.

Because they are making a ton of money as things are now...will the profit margin increase, stay the same or go down ? Spending a lot of money can be done, and should be, but are the front office folks (Jeter & Ng) listening ? I'll believe it when I see it. I think they'll spend some money, but if the Marlins are just mediocre by the deadline I can see them go for another selloff like 2021. Especially if the crowds don't rise majorly....it seems these folks think just because you sign a free agent, the people will come....they won't if you repeatedly just sign folks to trade them at the deadline every year.

People here, many of them have just given up on the Marlins, want nothing to do with them anymore. I know Fish16 disagrees, but look to Tampa Bay...it's not the same circumstances but it's basically the same results you're going to get....they have to make a real commitment to long-term spending to gain the trust of South Fla back. I know Fish16 has pooh-poohed that notion before, but I think you'll see it play out that way. He believes folks will just come back as the Loria memories fade from folks' minds.....

[Maddawg]

You never said a word about Nola until after he was gone and finding success.

whether or not anyone said anything about Nola is irrelevant, but what is troubling is the continuedf pattern from the Loria days is giving away talent that would help the MLB team and keeping some that have proven time & again just aren't MLB material (aka Lewis Brinson)...it still confounds me he's a part of this organization.

[Nick]

whether or not anyone said anything about Nola is irrelevant, but what is troubling is the continuedf pattern from the Loria days is giving away talent that would help the MLB team and keeping some that have proven time & again just aren't MLB material (aka Lewis Brinson)...it still confounds me he's a part of this organization.

Nola is a really bad example of this. He was in our organization for 7 years, was 28 years old, had almost 2500 ABs and managed a career OPS in the minors of around .660. There was no indication that he would turn into anything before we dropped him. He's an exception to the rule, we gave him every opportunity, but didn't turn into something until after he left, I can't blame them for that. I think fish16 mentioned Canha earlier, that's a much better example, of a guy who performed in the minors for us, and never got an opportunity, left and was immediately good in the big leagues. That was of course under the Loria regime, though.

[Todd]

Canha isn't a particularly good example either as he was blocked at the two outfield positions he could play and had never shown power needed as a first baseman.

[Nick]

Canha isn't a particularly good example either as he was blocked at the two outfield positions he could play and had never shown power needed as a first baseman.

We got nothing for him is the point. He's sill in the league. Justin Bour is not.

[fish16]

ya a good team would have made use of canha. its not like the case of so many who have had down years in the minors and then were blocked. the guy was a legit stud throughout every year in the minors with us and we never gave him a shot and then even worse if I'm not mistaken we just didn't protect him and either left him unprotected in the rule 5 or just let him go through waivers and get claimed by oakland. a guy like that would have been tremendous depth to have

[fish16]

he isnt a free agent until next year and the dodgers id guess will re-sign him, but he would be a free agent who I would think would be absolutely worth it for a 5+ year deal from a team like the marlins. that's a legit superstar and a guy I wouldn't be worried about long term. hopefully they spend this offseason and don't have the payroll room for him next year but if they don't id love trea turner on my team.

[AdamRavs]

he isnt a free agent until next year and the dodgers id guess will re-sign him, but he would be a free agent who I would think would be absolutely worth it for a 5+ year deal from a team like the marlins. that's a legit superstar and a guy I wouldn't be worried about long term. hopefully they spend this offseason and don't have the payroll room for him next year but if they don't id love trea turner on my team.

Shows him as a FA.

[Todd]

I think they should seriously look to trade most of the older bullpen arms(as they tend to always have value), Pablo Lopez(as he has the most value), and Elesier Hernandez(because he is not good but hopefully he could be overvalued off of his short 2020 and injury plagued 2021 and someone might overpay for what is essentially a AAAA pitcher with a high 80s/low 90s fastball and mediocre secondary pitches). Hopefully only looking at trading the young arms if absolutely necessary/blown away with an offer. I would even listen to offers for Rojas as teams might also overpay for a decent super utility guy on a fairly team friendly contract.

[lou]

I think they should seriously look to trade most of the older bullpen arms(as they tend to always have value), Pablo Lopez(as he has the most value), and Elesier Hernandez(because he is not good but hopefully he could be overvalued off of his short 2020 and injury plagued 2021 and someone might overpay for what is essentially a AAAA pitcher with a high 80s/low 90s fastball and mediocre secondary pitches). Hopefully only looking at trading the young arms if absolutely necessary/blown away with an offer. I would even listen to offers for Rojas as teams might also overpay for a decent super utility guy on a fairly team friendly contract.

Rojas is 13th in SS WAR since start of 2019. That may be over-achieving, but his floor is likely 20th. He's turned himself into a good starter. I think he probably has more value to them. I'd only consider moving him if they sign Correa/Seager, and even then it may be just keep him and move him/Anderson/Jazz around to accomodate the large star.

I'd keep Hernandez also. He's been pretty OK last 75 innings and is 26. I think you're selling low today. He's cheap. He could very quickly turn into a good # 4 SP or very good bullpen arm. Giving him a role and sticking him there may be important to him.

Pablo, Bass, and Bleier can go though. It's been discussed ad naseum, but Pablo is likely the smartest one to trade for a bat, and the other two shed $5m bucks in payroll to devote elsewhere.


I'm liking the idea of this as the offseason:

Castellanos - just fucking do it, 5/$90 or whatever it takes. Front load it. I can accept no Correa/Seager level guy, but I can't get behind not being able to afford Castellanos level players.

B. Marsh/Other epic play now CF/C - This is the Pablo trade

Jon Gray/Noah Syndeergaard/Other Reclamation project - 1-2 year deal, slot in as # 3 SP

1-2 year veteran C/CF - This is a lower acquisition, like Stallings/Kelly/Garver for catchers, or Byron Buxton (who has 1 year of control), or signing Marte for A LOT for 2 years - This is FA money or a non top-player trade (i.e., no Pablo/Sandy/Rogers/Meyer/Luzardo/Sixto/Cabrera/Jazz/Sanchez/Watson/Bleday/Anderson, etc.)

1 year lefty reliever - sign best arm you can get, don't be cheap and try a prospect

1 year veteran infielder - 2B/3B type, don't be cheap and try a prospect

Rule V - Lefty relievers

Trade/DFA - Cooper/Aguilar (don't care who), Bleier, Bass, Alfaro


That's this:

Lower Acquisition/Great prospect, Fortes
Aguilar/Cooper, Lewin
Jazz
Rojas, Berti
Anderson, 1 year vet. infielder
Castellanos, De La Cruz
Great young player/Lower Acquisition
Sanchez

Sandy, Rogers, Gray/Syndeergaard/vet project, Luzardo, Hernandez
Bender, Floro, Thompson, Sixto/Cabrera,* Pop
Veteran lefty, Okert, Rule V lefty/Garrett/Camp Battle

*This is temporary as arms built up to eventually replace Hernandez, other in AAA for now and first arm up for ANY injury


This is going to be $70m or under with Aguilar, lower with Cooper. Rays spent $70m in 2021.

Payroll won't change going into 23 that drastically, so they could add another Castellanos then. Or maybe it's Buxton above and you extend him early and pray.

[rmc523]

Rojas is 13th in SS WAR since start of 2019. That may be over-achieving, but his floor is likely 20th. He's turned himself into a good starter. I think he probably has more value to them. I'd only consider moving him if they sign Correa/Seager, and even then it may be just keep him and move him/Anderson/Jazz around to accomodate the large star.

I'd keep Hernandez also. He's been pretty OK last 75 innings and is 26. I think you're selling low today. He's cheap. He could very quickly turn into a good # 4 SP or very good bullpen arm. Giving him a role and sticking him there may be important to him.

Pablo, Bass, and Bleier can go though. It's been discussed ad naseum, but Pablo is likely the smartest one to trade for a bat, and the other two shed $5m bucks in payroll to devote elsewhere.


I'm liking the idea of this as the offseason:

Castellanos - just fucking do it, 5/$90 or whatever it takes. Front load it. I can accept no Correa/Seager level guy, but I can't get behind not being able to afford Castellanos level players.

B. Marsh/Other epic play now CF/C - This is the Pablo trade

Jon Gray/Noah Syndeergaard/Other Reclamation project - 1-2 year deal, slot in as # 3 SP

1-2 year veteran C/CF - This is a lower acquisition, like Stallings/Kelly/Garver for catchers, or Byron Buxton (who has 1 year of control), or signing Marte for A LOT for 2 years - This is FA money or a non top-player trade (i.e., no Pablo/Sandy/Rogers/Meyer/Luzardo/Sixto/Cabrera/Jazz/Sanchez/Watson/Bleday/Anderson, etc.)

1 year lefty reliever - sign best arm you can get, don't be cheap and try a prospect

1 year veteran infielder - 2B/3B type, don't be cheap and try a prospect

Rule V - Lefty relievers

Trade/DFA - Cooper/Aguilar (don't care who), Bleier, Bass, Alfaro


That's this:

Lower Acquisition/Great prospect, Fortes
Aguilar/Cooper, Lewin
Jazz
Rojas, Berti
Anderson, 1 year vet. infielder
Castellanos, De La Cruz
Great young player/Lower Acquisition
Sanchez

Sandy, Rogers, Gray/Syndeergaard/vet project, Luzardo, Hernandez
Bender, Floro, Thompson, Sixto/Cabrera,* Pop
Veteran lefty, Okert, Rule V lefty/Garrett/Camp Battle

*This is temporary as arms built up to eventually replace Hernandez, other in AAA for now and first arm up for ANY injury


This is going to be $70m or under with Aguilar, lower with Cooper. Rays spent $70m in 2021.

Payroll won't change going into 23 that drastically, so they could add another Castellanos then. Or maybe it's Buxton above and you extend him early and pray.

This plan makes too much sense, which is why they'll sign Bengie Molina to catch, and Juan Pierre is coming out of retirement for CF and call it a day.