Hanley Ramirez 2010: Starting All-Star SS

[MiamiHomer]

Ortiz also was thrown out at 2nd yesterday because he admired a ball he hit that he though was gone but hit off the wall and got thrown out at 2nd.

EDIT: Just realized the article references that. Yay for not reading it all before posting!

[Swifty]

I know, I was there. He didn't get yanked though.

[wanks1212]

Honestly if I'm Hanley I don't play another game for this team until Fredi/Helms are gone. Maybe I'm a diva but thats how I would react with everything thats unfolded.

I don't agree with Hanley's actions but I'd probably feel this way too. At least about Helms. The way Fredi has acted (pulling Hanley, commenting in the media about his reasoning, basically saying "I don't care what Hanley thinks about me, but he needs to respect his teammates) isn't unreasonable and is how the manager should act here.

But Helms shouldn't be commenting in the press to the extent he has been. If I were Hanley, it would rub me the wrong way that Helms is airing all the dirty laundry publicly, and yeah, I may get the "me or him, choose one" frame of mind. Especially since it's Wes Fucking Helms and the guy is a glorified bench coach anyway. If it were JJ or Uggla or Cantu saying something, that'd be different.

[FishFF]

Like it or not though Wes Helms is the veteran on this team. Is he a washed up bum, sure, but the media is going to go to him and ask him questions. To me the things Hanley said about his team and manager are far worse than anything Helms has said. But he's H2R so it's okay.

[wanks1212]

What Hanley said is worse, and Hanley's in the wrong. But just because Hanley's in the wrong doesn't mean Helms is in the right. If Helms is really the leader he/the FO claim him to be, he needs to handle this behind closed doors and face-to-face with Ramirez, rather than spewing everything to the media and further igniting the controversy.

[FishFF]

What Hanley said is worse, and Hanley's in the wrong. But just because Hanley's in the wrong doesn't mean Helms is in the right. If Helms is really the leader he/the FO claim him to be, he needs to handle this behind closed doors and face-to-face with Ramirez, rather than spewing everything to the media and further igniting the controversy.

Yeah, I agree. Although I don't think he has really said much more than echoing Fredi's comments. I think this is just really the first episode that was aired out in the media since Fredi's been manager, and because it relates to Hanley it's getting way over blown. Hopefully this drama ends tonight.

[Swifty]

Being the oldest or most veteran guy on the team doesn't make it his right to say whatever is on his mind.

A true leader knows when to talk and when to get out of the way. I now understand why a player from the '06 team told me everyone hated Helms.

[wanks1212]

So everyone on the team hates Hanley because he acts like a spoiled child, and everyone on the team hates Helms becuase he's that teacher's (or, in this case, the FO's) pet/douchebag. Awesome. At least the other 23 guys seem like decent people with reasonable positions, so long as they hate the attitude of those two.

[DolfanJake]

Hanley to Apologise to the Team (not Freddi)

according to CBS4 (WFOR)

http://cbs4.com/local/hanley.ramirez...2.1703588.html

[The Hanram]

I'm pretty sure it said in the article that he is going to apologize to Fredi too...

[FishFF]

[Ramp]

The door closed, and Andre Dawson looked directly into Hanley Ramirez's eyes.

"I'm not going to say a lot, because if you say the wrong the thing to me, then you might wind up on the floor on your rear end,' Dawson said with Tony Perez standing by his side in a coach's office at Sun Life Stadium.

For 15 minutes, Ramirez sat and listened as the two Hall of Famers, who also work as Marlins assistants, tried to assess for Ramirez exactly the damage he had done to himself by ripping into his manager for pulling him off the field Monday night because he didn't hustle.

Dawson said he did most of the talking in this intervention, which took place about an hour before Tuesday's game. Dawson today recounted it like this:

"Look, I'm going to level with you,' he told Ramirez. "You either hear me or you don't. For one, you're not bigger than the game. You don't show a manager up. The way you're going about this is literally the wrong way. It's an immature act … and this could come back to bite you in the rear end in the worst way.'

Ramirez didn't say a word. His eyes darted from Dawson's to Perez's and then he looked away.

"You really have stepped across the line,' Dawson said. "You owe that manager a sincere apology. And if you think your teammates have your back with this, you've got another thing coming because the mind-set, and this is from me to you, the mind-set is these guys are laughing at you."

Ramirez had mocked manager Fredi Gonzalez's contention that the other 24 members of the Marlins always hustled. Ramirez also said Gonzalez didn't understand what it's like to play through pain because "he never played in the big leagues.'

Dawson told Ramirez that consistent effort will bring him respect.

"Hanley, one thing you've got to understand, if you want to be the best, you've got to bring the best every day. That's the only way you're going to be respected in that manner. And don't forget - if you want to be marketed as the best, you don't go on national television and belittle your superiors.'

Dawson said he and Perez both reminded Ramirez of the $70 million, six-year extension he signed in 2008, and that the Marlins want him to be the cornerstone of the franchise when it moves into a new ballpark in 2012.

"These people invested a lot of money in you and they did it for a reason, all right?' Dawson said. "One of these days it'll probably make sense to you why they did that. But in the meantime you better try and gravitate to why you think they invested this money in you.

"Don't think that you're ever bigger than the game. I don't care how much money you make because this game will humble you and it will humble you fast.'

Dawson said he reminded Ramirez about his episode from March 2009, when he demanded a trade because he was told to follow team rules by getting a haircut and no longer wearing jewelry on the field.

A week after that incident, Dawson heard Ramirez talking in Jupiter to his friend, St. Louis Cardinals slugger Albert Pujols.

"Albert said, 'Don't change,' ' Dawson recalled. "And Hanley looked at him and smiled. And Albert said again, 'All I ask is that you don't change. You're changing.' '

Dawson, who will be inducted into the Hall of Fame this July in Cooperstown, N.Y., said he could see that Ramirez was uncomfortable with the lecture. But Dawson didn't care.

"I said, "I'm going to give it to you raw. I'm not telling you how to play the game. You have a ton of ability, but there's more than just going out and having a ton of ability. With that comes some ground rules, some things that you will learn as you go along the way.'

"But you've got to start thinking about setting an example and having your teammates respect you in the manner that they should. That act that you put on, that's poor. That's not going to cut it.' '

Dawson, 55, was tired Tuesday when he arrived in South Florida after a red-eye flight from Las Vegas. His mood got worse when he arrived at the ballpark before a 1:10 p.m. game against Arizona and learned what Ramirez had said that morning - that he shouldn't be criticized for lack of hustle because his teammates dogged it, too, and that Gonzalez didn't have the experience to tell him what to do.

Then Dawson walked through the clubhouse and saw all of the plasma TVs showing ESPN programs with Ramirez's face next to his inflammatory comments.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/marlins/697383.html

[FishFF]

So does Dawson have enough credentials to lay into Hanley?

[Ramp]

he's never playing in a Marlins uniform or played shortstop

/whathanleywasthinking

[geemoney]

I'm surprised Andre revealed what he said to Hanley.