CSBC Chat

[pdub858]

#9 pick on the block......looking for pitching

[MiamiHomer]

Fucking Cleveland!!!!!

Strasburg will hold a 1 hour special after he is eligible for FA and decide to leave Cleveland.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Oh man, I laughed at that more than I think I should have

[MiamiHomer]

You won't be laughing when he decides he is taking his talents to San Antonio.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Well, if it's anything like real life it'd be Chicago or Miami or New York.

[nny]

I recently had someone ask me if they should tank, and with the abundance of people trying to tank in the league, I figured I'd post this here as well.

I don't really understand the fascination with tanking. 20% of the league makes the playoffs. Getting to the playoffs isn't particularly hard. And once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen.

The biggest problem, I feel, isn't so much "tanking" but when owners move very good players for peanuts to make their MLB team worse so that they can lose and get prospects for their farm system. The problem is they don't get anywhere near as much as they should back for the player they gave up. There are two trades made recently that I really did not like for top players with several club control years that barely brought the owner anything back, just to make their MLB team worse. We're not talking about 1 year rentals or whatever, we're talking about franchise building blocks, guys not even in arbitration yet.

You guys are free to run your teams however you want to run them, and if those are the moves you want to make then do them. And there do need to be "sellers" in the league for there to actually be activity, but "selling" isn't what I'm talking about.

Just keep in mind that making those kind of trades doesn't just hurt you now, it hurts you in the long run since that all star player would still be around if you kept him, plus you don't get as much back as you should by moving him just to move him.

You need to focus on building an organization. Not just a MLB team and not just a farm team, it's about them being a combined effort.

And don't forget just how much is luck. Just because you got off to a bad start doesn't mean you're out of it (again, 20%! make the playoffs). And just because you do suck this year, doesn't mean you'll suck next year too. Again, it's about the franchise as a whole, and those club control guys will help you next year, and the year after, and the year after, where you won't suck if you focus on not sucking.

I think CC's team is a very good point of that. He had HORRIBLE luck in TBBC and that carried over to CSBC. In year one he finished last in his division, in year 2 he finished 16 games back, a lot of which had to do with guys under performing their ratings.. This year he has the best record in the BL, second best record in the entire league. In all years, he more or less stayed steady with his teams. Now it's clicking. He's good this year because he did not blow up his teams even though he could have.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Bingo, couldn't have said it better myself.

Additionally...

You can't rely on only one thing to build a team. You can't solely rely on FAs or the draft. This isn't an NBA sim where you really only need one player, like Nny said, you need an organization. The best way to do that is through a creative mix of trading guys, drafting smart and signing FAs to fill holes.

Nny and I are more than accessible when it comes to asking how things work or how to evaluate ratings and such. Even if you want to throw out a "What do you think of this" hypothetical situation, we can talk it out... we're OOTP nerds (at least I admit I am) so it's not a big deal if we have the time.

But yes, I ESPECIALLY agree regarding some recent trades. And I'll leave the same advice I usually give anyone else. Check the completed trades threads for comparables before making a trade, ask us.

[MiamiHomer]

My brother will be in 2nd shortly

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

I think part of the reason why people tank is because, if you're not one of the top 10 people to draft, you are not getting anybody worth anything. That's why no one even shows up for the second round. By then, all the players are worthless.

[nny]

So if you miss the playoffs, you get a prospect worth something.

Also that's just further proof of why you shouldn't tank because you can't build solely through the draft.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

Which, to me, is stupid. You're forcing people into trading and there's some people, like me, that are not good and trading and, therefore, will never have a shot at the playoffs. The people that are good at trading are the people with the best teams and the best chances of making the playoffs. If you're not good at trading, you're completely screwed. It just seems really unfair to me.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Which, to me, is stupid. You're forcing people into trading and there's some people, like me, that are not good and trading and, therefore, will never have a shot at the playoffs. The people that are good at trading are the people with the best teams and the best chances of making the playoffs. If you're not good at trading, you're completely screwed. It just seems really unfair to me.

Mba, I don't like being a dick in general but, we've talked about trading and player values and such before, and the last time you ended the conversation with an aura of general disbelief as though I was lying to you.

I've made the offer ten thousand times and I'll make it again. I will literally hold ANYONE'S hand through a trade if it means they'll get fair value. I've already done it for 3-4 owners, where I've suggested players they ask for or even so much as practically written them a script for how to talk to other owners.

When you say you are "bad at trading" it's a result of not putting time in to learning, we've only actually had ONE conversation about it. It's not a terribly difficult thing after a while and, to be honest, yes we ALL suck at it at first and we ALL get burned our first few trades. The trick is sucking it up and getting back on the pony.

But guess what, that's how it is in real baseball, too. For all the adulation the Rays get for "building through the draft" they also acquired plenty of players through trade and FA (Pena and Garza, to name a couple).

Now if you would like help, feel free to ask, but don't say that something's unfair when every owner has fallen off the bike just like you. I'm sorry but it's tough love, I'd really like to see everyone win a championship at some time and this year, I've told a couple people I'm honestly rooting for CC to win it, because like Nny said, he's stuck to his guns and built a winner, through thick and thin.

[nny]

It's not just trading (and it's not like it's a skill? I have tried to help you in the past, PWG has tried to help you in the past, and yet all you do is argue our advice and act like we're lying to you), you build teams through fa and drafting and ect. It's ALL aspects that matter. If you don't draft properly or sign properly, who are you going to trade?

And I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at?

If it's that you want more talent in the draft, that just floods the league with talent. There's only so many 5 star, 4 star, ect players. By having 10 5 star players in the draft, that's just going to drop x amount of 5 star players to 4 stars and ect. Players with what should be high ratings will be 1 star guys. The way the draft is is the way OOTP works. Stock piling the draft with 5 star guys is not going to change things because most of them will fall in star ratings by the time they hit the majors to even the amount of 5 star, 4 star, ect players.

edit: post at same time high five

[PitchingWinsGames]

Also one more thing about having "stacked" draft classes, not only will it generally force star ratings down, but it will also lead to more neg-devs, which are a built-in failsafe in the game to keep talent levels equal anyways. It's controlled randomness. For every no-name player that gets a bump, a Miguel Cabrera turns into an .800 OPS player. The game's designed to promote a semblance of balance.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

I appreciate that you guys have tried to help me but I still don't understand how to place value on trades. Like I have said before, it's like a foreign language to me and I still don't understand it and I'm not sure I ever will. It's like some kind of abstract art form that my scientific mind just cannot get an understanding of. The fact that I have been burned badly in two trades really doesn't make me very excited to trade guys, either.