CSBC Chat

[PitchingWinsGames]

I appreciate that you guys have tried to help me but I still don't understand how to place value on trades. Like I have said before, it's like a foreign language to me and I still don't understand it and I'm not sure I ever will. It's like some kind of abstract art form that my scientific mind just cannot get an understanding of. The fact that I have been burned badly in two trades really doesn't make me very excited to trade guys, either.

This is the kind of stuff that beats you before you start. The only "art" to trading is getting a little more from someone, or convincing them to take a little less... the rest is simple "science" or numbers.

It's kinda like real life... C > SS > CF > 2B > 3B > RF > LF > 1B (this is a very rough thing and obviously depends on variables, but all things equal, yeah), then you take into consideration, that if you're trading an established superstar, you look at something like the Cliff Lee trade, where Seattle got a variety of prospects. They got the blue chip guy in Smoak, plus some solid other guys.

Also, it helps, organizationally, to have a plan. What KIND of team do you want to build? Do you want a defense-oriented team, SLG, OBP, Pitching, what? If you look at my team, for instance, I'm built around high (trying anyways) OBP guys and GB pitchers, when I make a trade, I tend to look for guys in systems that fit this mold. So if I wanted to trade Miggy, my first thing would be to look for players like that.

[Bobbob1313]

I wish the contenders would be a little more desperate in trades. Everyone is too levelheaded

[PitchingWinsGames]

Actually, Mba, I'll talk you through some things later if you want.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

I'm still not sure what good it would do. Do you have a trading for dummies manual? That's how much I really don't understand trading.

[pdub858]

Trading is a lot like poker, you have to be good at reading your "opponent".
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And to be more cliche, you gotta know when to hold um' and know when to fold um'. Know when to walk away and so on....

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

Not really. In poker, you're generally sitting at a table with other people and can pick up hints that way. I can't look at any of you to get any hints if you are bluffing or not.

It also doesn't have the set rules like poker where a flush is better than a straight that I can use to help judge stuff. There's no rule book that tells me what trade is better than another or what player holds more value than another. That's the primary impediment to my being able to understand trades.

[pdub858]

Not really. In poker, you're generally sitting at a table with other people and can pick up hints that way. I can't look at any of you to get any hints if you are bluffing or not.

It also doesn't have the set rules like poker where a flush is better than a straight that I can use to help judge stuff. There's no rule book that tells me what trade is better than another or what player holds more value than another. That's the primary impediment to my being able to understand trades.

True you can not see who you are dealing with (unless you use a webcam and that would be a new one to me lol) But you can pick up on what they want/dont want, what mood the persons in and a whole bunch of little hints of what to offer and not to offer and when.

[PitchingWinsGames]

It's REALLY not even that complicated... but anyways. This isn't for a discussion on the philosophical and metaphysical ramifications of trading right now. If you want help, contact Nny or myself (probably more likely myself).

[nny]

I don't really think it's about poker but rather just understanding the value of a player, which is scientific.

I don't go into trades thinking "I want to rip this guy off." If I'm trading a player, I look at his value and only trade him if someone hits that value. If I'm trading for a player, I offer what I value him at and if the opposite team agrees, then we have a trade.

I'm the least artistic person around, I really don't view trading as an art form. it's a math formula. If x >= y, trade. If x < y, don't trade.

What me and pwg have tried to do is instill in you what a players value is. It's both understanding OOTPs mechanics (Value of player in terms of performance) and looking at trades that have already been made (Value of player in terms of other GMs).

[KnuckleBalls]

Will either PWG or NNY help me trade for Andrew Miller?

[PitchingWinsGames]

Uhhh? I hope that's not being unnecessarily facetious. I'll treat it like it's serious...

Andrew Miller is property of Miami, Ralph is good about responding to PMs. Go from there.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

Exactly! I still don't understand how to assign values to these players. That's. My. Problem. Period. If I don't know what my players are worth, how am I supposed to get fair value for them or even what fair value is?

And, just because you don't try to rip other owners off doesn't mean that there aren't owners out there that do so looking at similar trades, assuming I could even figure out what a comparable trade is might not be the best bet, either.

This is why I don't trade. I'm just flying blind on it and I'd prefer other options that I do understand.

[KnuckleBalls]

Uhhh? I hope that's not being unnecessarily facetious. I'll treat it like it's serious...

Andrew Miller is property of Miami, Ralph is good about responding to PMs. Go from there.

Thank you sir. It was actually quite serious.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Exactly! I still don't understand how to assign values to these players. That's. My. Problem. Period. If I don't know what my players are worth, how am I supposed to get fair value for them or even what fair value is?

And, just because you don't try to rip other owners off doesn't mean that there aren't owners out there that do so looking at similar trades, assuming I could even figure out what a comparable trade is might not be the best bet, either.

This is why I don't trade. I'm just flying blind on it and I'd prefer other options that I do understand.

I don't see how you don't understand how to assign value. It's a series of yes or no questions:

Is the player doing well: Y/N
Does the player have good ratings: Y/N
Is the player young (*>25): Y/N
Does the player have good WE/INT: Y/N
Is the player ML ready (most ratings over 50): Y/N

All the yes's = + value, no's = -value

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

That's great for trading one player for another. It does nothing to help me understand the 3 for 1 trades like the Halladay trade. Yes, I know Halladay is good but why does he net those three specific players?