Season Super Game Thread

[Nick]

So what was Chen's Salary this year? $2 million?

The deferred salary is $64.5 million, which that adds up to. The other $15 million was paid in 2016-2017. The $13 million signing bonus was paid in the last year since Jeter-Sherman took over. So I guess technically what we've paid him this year is $2 + $13 million. And we owe him $55 million over the next 4 years even though he's only signed for 2. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Jeff Loria paid only $18 million ($6 in 2016, $9 in 2017 and the $3 deferred in 2016) of this stupid fucking contract that pays out $93 million. Why did MLB let him get away with this shit?

[tjfla]

Frisaro is the worst beat writer ever

People have been talking about Brigham since June but Frisaro gives a heads up now

Joe FrisaroVerified account @JoeFrisaro · 3h3 hours ago
Keep an eye on Jeff Brigham #Marlins fans. The right-hander won again for @cakesbaseball last night. Brigham is a strong September call-up candidate. Organization has to make a 40 man decision on him this offseason. Look for him to be added to 40 in September.

[lou]

So what was Chen's Salary this year? $2 million?

The deferred salary is $64.5 million, which that adds up to. The other $15 million was paid in 2016-2017. The $13 million signing bonus was paid in the last year since Jeter-Sherman took over. So I guess technically what we've paid him this year is $2 + $13 million. And we owe him $55 million over the next 4 years even though he's only signed for 2. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Jeff Loria paid only $18 million ($6 in 2016, $9 in 2017 and the $3 deferred in 2016) of this stupid fucking contract that pays out $93 million. Why did MLB let him get away with this shit?

Well, first it's just $80 million. The signing bonus is included in that figure.

I don't think we know "which" $16 million was paid in accordance to the yearly salary figures, we just know the $64 of it was deferred and have the payment schedule for that. I suspect that Chen had to get something up front so I assume all of that $16 has been paid to date (through 2018), and the larger figures in 2018-2020 were the majority of the deferred sums. That makes rational sense to me even if there is no support I can point to.

I'm working under the assumption Chen costs $10-$14-$15-$16 the next 4 years pursuant to that deferred schedule, but the first two of those years may have an extra million or two attached to them based on what exactly was deferred and what not?? It's really neither here nor there though at that point as all of those numbers suck. Basically, you're not wrong. They have him on the books for real money for 4 years, and only have him for 2 years of contractual control.

"Thanks Jeff" is in order. Pray Stanton opts out, or the Marlins will owe Chen and Stanton a combined $60+ million post 2021-god knows when?

[Nick]

Well, first it's just $80 million. The signing bonus is included in that figure.

I don't think we know "which" $16 million was paid in accordance to the yearly salary figures, we just know the $64 of it was deferred and have the payment schedule for that. I suspect that Chen had to get something up front so I assume all of that $16 has been paid to date (through 2018), and the larger figures in 2018-2020 were the majority of the deferred sums. That makes rational sense to me even if there is no support I can point to.

I'm working under the assumption Chen costs $10-$14-$15-$16 the next 4 years pursuant to that deferred schedule, but the first two of those years may have an extra million or two attached to them based on what exactly was deferred and what not?? It's really neither here nor there though at that point as all of those numbers suck. Basically, you're not wrong. They have him on the books for real money for 4 years, and only have him for 2 years of contractual control.

"Thanks Jeff" is in order. Pray Stanton opts out, or the Marlins will owe Chen and Stanton a combined $60+ million post 2021-god knows when?

Well if that's true then the deferred money and the signing bonus adds up to $77.5 million. With $3 million of the deferred paid by Loria, leaving $74.5 million left. Is it possible Loria only paid $5.5 million of the Chen contract?

[lou]

Well if that's true then the deferred money and the signing bonus adds up to $77.5 million. With $3 million of the deferred paid by Loria, leaving $74.5 million left. Is it possible Loria only paid $5.5 million of the Chen contract?

It's hard to say. This is the base contract though with is 5/$80.

$13M signing bonus ($5M paid 11/30/17, $8M paid 6/30/18)
16:$6M, 17:$9M, 18:$10M player option, 19:$20M player option, 20:$22M player option, 21:$16M conditional player option


Then they have this:

Total of $64.5M in 2016-21 salaries is deferred without interest (16:$3M, 17:$4.5M, 18:$8M, 19:$16M, 20:$17M , 21:$16M)
Add in the signing bonus above, and let's say that Loria just paid the remaining $2.5 some point 16-17 (or was paid this year in 18?)

So that makes sense,

So then they have this which is what I was looking at

Chen to receive deferred payments of $3M on 11/30/16, $4.5M on 11/30/17, $2M on 11/30/18, $6M on 6/30/19, $4M on 11/30/19, $9M on 6/30/20, $5M on 11/30/20, $15M on 6/30/21, $1M on 11/30/21, $15M on 6/30/22

Maybe this discrepancy is, the final two payments above representative of the "2021 $16M conditional player option," thats just not marked on the page, and the Marlins kicked that salary one a year down the road? That neatly adds up with the final two payments.

I think it would be great if someone tweeted Frisario to get some clarity on this as to what they actually owe the guy.

That would be pretty cool if that bolded section above is the 2021 option, and they basically owe him $16-17-16 the next 3 years (the underlined section).

What a mess. I don't know. I just know Chen stinks in the rotation, should move to the bullpen, and they owe him a lot of money for 3, maybe 4 years?

[tjfla]

No clue how the Chen contract works but

•2021 option vests with
180 IP in 2020, or 360 across 2019-20
Is not on the DL at the end of 2020 and is healthy in 2021

2021 is for 16 million which means the last 2 payments are for vesting option

[Nick]

My brain exploded.

[Nick]

So yeah let's hope to God tj is right about the vesting option, and assume he is.

the overall contract has 5-year $67 million base salary, $13 million signing bonus, $16 million vesting option in 2021.

Let's break down the payments stemming from deferred salary and the signing bonus.

11/30/16: $3 million
11/30/17: $4.5 million (salary), $5 million (signing bonus)
6/30/18: $8 million (signing bonus)
11/30/18: $2 million
6/30/19: $6 million
11/30/19: $4 million
6/30/20: $9 million
11/30/20: $5 million
6/30/21: $15 million

Adds up to $61.5 in deferred salary and signing bonuses. $18.5 already paid? I don't know.

Ultimately under this scenario it'd be $58.5 million paid by Jeter/Sherman for the final 3 years of the contract, and $21.5 for the 2 years under Loria. With $41 million in payments still remaining thru June 2021.

Nope this doesn't make any sense, because under the original contract Chen was only supposed to be paid $15 million from 2016-2017. Under this deferred scenario Chen was paid $21.5 million during 2016-2017, so what exactly was deferred? Yeah I'm utterly confused by all of this.

- - - - - - - - - -

The only way this deferred thing makes sense is if Chen was paid only $2.5 million prior to these deferred payments, and then the deferred payments and signing bonus equal the $77.5 million, and the vesting option is not considered in those scheduled payments.

The whole deferred thing doesn't make sense to me, because the contract was pretty much already set up as deferred payments, being severely backloaded. If I'm right about my theory above then it probably becomes the most backloaded contract in sports history.

[tjfla]

From 2016

The Miami Marlins and free-agent left-hander Wei-Yin Chen have agreed to a five-year, $80 million deal that includes a sixth-year vesting option, sources told ESPN's Buster Olney.The deal could be worth up to $96 million if the sixth-year option vests, and Chen can opt out of the contract after the second year, sources told Olney.
Chen's option will vest for the 2021 season based on how many innings he pitches in the 2019 and 2020 seasons, sources told Olney.

[Lee Stone]

Chen has an ERA of about 3.5 over his last six starts. A WHIP of about 0.95. Statisically, that makes him the team's top current performer. He's had a disappointing run with the Marlins, but writing him off seems imprudent.

[tjfla]

If u wanted to see a backloaded deal that would have beat it,u should have seen the contract Jeff tried to get Kenley Jansen with. Paid him like 2 million in year 1 then like 85 million the rest of the deal

[Nick]

I have no doubt that the vesting option exists and is part of the deal. I'm just saying I don't think it's considered in those deferred payments. Even if those last two payments are the vesting option you still have 2 payments worth $20 million after the 2020 season, in which Chen would no longer be under contract.

[tjfla]

They would have messed it up anyway but when we signed Chen we also lost the #46 pick in 2016 Draft

#52-Yerzy
#55-Nolan Jones
#64-Alonso
#65-Mitchell White
#66-Bo Bichette
#83-Sean Murphy
#94-Luzardo

We also traded #40 to Atlanta. They picked Joey Wentz

Past FO would not have taken any of them at #40 or #46 but still we should have added like 5-8 more premium players if we werent worried about $$

[lou]

The only way this deferred thing makes sense is if Chen was paid only $2.5 million prior to these deferred payments, and then the deferred payments and signing bonus equal the $77.5 million, and the vesting option is not considered in those scheduled payments.

The whole deferred thing doesn't make sense to me, because the contract was pretty much already set up as deferred payments, being severely backloaded. If I'm right about my theory above then it probably becomes the most backloaded contract in sports history.

I think this is right. I think he got incredibly low amounts early, and it's all stacked later.

However, want to talk backloading:

Max Scherzer
7 years/$210M (2015-21)
signed by Washington as a free agent 1/21/15
$50M signing bonus
$5M in 2015 and $15M each in 2019, 2020, 2021
payments in equal semiannual installments, April-September
salaries: 15:$10M, 16-18:$15M annually. 19-21:$35M annually
2019-21 salaries ($105M) deferred without interest, to be paid in seven $15M installments each July 1 from 2022 to 2028)

Stephen Strasburg rhp
7 years/$175M (2017-23)
signed extension with Washington 5/10/16
$10M signing bonus to be paid 7/1/19
17:$15M, 18:$15M, 19:$35M, 20:$25M, 21:$15M, 22:$15M, 23:$45M
$70M deferred without interest ($30M in 2019, $10M in 2020, $30M in 2023), paid in seven $10M installments each July 1, 2024-30,

When Scherzer is 43 and Strausburg is 41 both long retired more than likely, the Nationals will be paying them combined $25 million in 2028, with $20 million still left for Strausburg. You can do the math at how fucked the Nationals are and why this year is an unmitigated disaster for them.

[Nick]

Holy Crap.

Makes you wonder why the Nationals would need to resort to that sort of thing. No wonder there is no chance they re-sign Harper.