Season Super Game Thread

[fish16]

i really dont understand what the deal is with guys like Wittgren and even Riddle. Riddle is a throwing strength issue and mattingly said has nothing to do with the bat but he can build on his arm strength while serving as a bat off the bench for a little. He's not even good but he's at least not a disgrace. Wittgren is one of our better bullpen arms and is clearly ready and we keep throwing out these trash arms like O'Grady and Guerrero (who as a sidenote is still awful). A bullpen of Barraclough, Steck, Ziegler, Tazawa, Wittgren, Despaigne as the long man, and then some of these rotation arms when guys like Straily and Hernandez and Chen come back wont be nearly as bad, but the combination of these injuries which are making us pitch guys like Turner, O'Grady, Guerrero and Mattingly loving to not pitch his best relievers as much as his worst relievers is hurting us.

If Chen can come back (big IF) and when we get straily and hernandez back our rotation wont be nearly as bad - Urena, Straily, Jarlin, Smith, and any combination of Hernandez, RIchards, Peters etc with the others going to the bullpen will improve this team.

35 wins is absurd. we'll get to 60-65. Even at the pace we've played at thus far we're at a 40+ win pace and we havent had our best hitter or pitcher pitch and our best power hitter and best prospect will regress to their mean, but Brinson will go down for a month and we will get lucky with his service time that way after a stupid decision to start him on the roster for the beginning of the year.

[emkayseven]

I'm guessing that second member was me. I came in because Lee posted on fishstripes and that's the main forum that I take a look at. People there don't talk as much so i'm keeping an eye here and there.



I still think that we aren't that bad. Most of our losses we where in the game and lost the lead or something else happened. Just like the last two games. I also think that we don't have our best hitter in the team and best pitcher (Straily and Realmoney) and that some guys are under performing (Brinson/Bour/Bullpen). I hope that our young starters will settle in the upcoming weeks. It's only been 11 games and we have 151 to go.

Yes, it was you! Never got to properly welcome you.

I love FishStripes - they do news and analysis very well. Years ago we tried it ourselves and it didn’t take off very well. We’ll stick to conversation.

[Maddawg]

i really dont understand what the deal is with guys like Wittgren and even Riddle. Riddle is a throwing strength issue and mattingly said has nothing to do with the bat but he can build on his arm strength while serving as a bat off the bench for a little. He's not even good but he's at least not a disgrace. Wittgren is one of our better bullpen arms and is clearly ready and we keep throwing out these trash arms like O'Grady and Guerrero (who as a sidenote is still awful). A bullpen of Barraclough, Steck, Ziegler, Tazawa, Wittgren, Despaigne as the long man, and then some of these rotation arms when guys like Straily and Hernandez and Chen come back wont be nearly as bad, but the combination of these injuries which are making us pitch guys like Turner, O'Grady, Guerrero and Mattingly loving to not pitch his best relievers as much as his worst relievers is hurting us.

If Chen can come back (big IF) and when we get straily and hernandez back our rotation wont be nearly as bad - Urena, Straily, Jarlin, Smith, and any combination of Hernandez, RIchards, Peters etc with the others going to the bullpen will improve this team.

35 wins is absurd. we'll get to 60-65. Even at the pace we've played at thus far we're at a 40+ win pace and we havent had our best hitter or pitcher pitch and our best power hitter and best prospect will regress to their mean, but Brinson will go down for a month and we will get lucky with his service time that way after a stupid decision to start him on the roster for the beginning of the year.

Realmuto will be moved, and so will Castro too. The attendance has to be disturbing so far and it will get only worse as the team continues to falter.

I still think as low as 35 wins is possible this year. Injuries are bound to happen, and the depth is still pitifully bad. We would need that whole rotation & bullpen to stay healthy and then Brinson to finds himself in AAA OR AA (where ever they put him). If he hits no better than .280 or so down there then there is no reason to believe he will ever be a cornerstone for this franchise. Then the trade of $$$ friendly Yelich just looks stupid. It's one they didn't need to make.....

We have to assume that part of the trading for Brinson was his (supposed) regional appeal. They wanted to trade on that to trick fans in. If you notice EVERY time they could they mentioned he was from So Fla. They need to stop that kind of naïve thinking. People don't give a crap where you are from, only that you can play ball, and that you might be here the next year.

The Yelich deal I think was more hurtful to people that are real baseball fans than the Stanton trade. Anyone with horse-sense could see why Stanton was gone. But Yelich was on a friendly deal, and that a 2nd team was so anxious to get rid of Brinson should be a warning sign. Some here will say "scouts have him rated as a can't miss prospect", well many of those people also would have/did say the same thing about Hermida, Skipworth, and the list can continue. They also make stupid trades like the Moran trade and give away assets...the man in charge of that, is still here...so where is the reason anyone should believe this "rebuild" will work. The attendance should be up with all the people that hated Loria should be excited to come back.....but they really screwed this up. I think there is a possibility Sherman/Jeter will put the team on the market after 2019. They just don't have the money to do this the right way. IFA is still a market that eludes the Marlins....and until they have an owner that can sustain losses for a while they will be in the cellar.

What if they do this and in 2 years say another "rebuild" is necessary ? What then ? They won't even get me to watch on TV anymore, much less go to the 20-30 games a year I do go to the last 25 years.

Brinson needs to become a star, and they need to get really lucky in the draft, or this franchise will be a cellar dweller for another generation (at least) if they aren't contracted altogether.

[fish16]

No matter how many times you repeat yourself Brinson doesnt need to become a star, and depending on your definition of star, nobody really thought he was going to become one. If they get Harrison, Diaz, and Brinson to all become good lineup pieces they will have made a good trade. They still got 3 top 100 players and even when one inevitably busts they will still have gotten good value for yelich.

Again, they dont need to get "really lucky in the draft," they need to continue to stick to the process of how it has been proven is the right way for a rebuilding team to build their organization and continue to actually try to invest in every aspect in which you can build your team (smart drafting and free agent moves and actually giving a fuck about IFA).

No one prospect they acquire in the offseason becoming a bust changes that they were the right moves and that even though the organization sold off its assets they are still starting off in a better place prospect wise than other rebuilding teams except maybe the White Sox because they too had really good cheap assets to move to start their rebuild (Sale and Quintana).

And you can continue this 35 win nonsense but you just sound like a moron. Go look at the worst team in ML history's roster and then continue to say that. We are already 5+ games ahead of that pace and havent had our best pitcher pitch, our best hitter hit, and our best pitching prospect come up when he could be a competent ML starter already.

[lou]

Realmuto will be moved, and so will Castro too. The attendance has to be disturbing so far and it will get only worse as the team continues to falter.

I still think as low as 35 wins is possible this year. Injuries are bound to happen, and the depth is still pitifully bad. We would need that whole rotation & bullpen to stay healthy and then Brinson to finds himself in AAA OR AA (where ever they put him). If he hits no better than .280 or so down there then there is no reason to believe he will ever be a cornerstone for this franchise. Then the trade of $$$ friendly Yelich just looks stupid. It's one they didn't need to make.....

We have to assume that part of the trading for Brinson was his (supposed) regional appeal. They wanted to trade on that to trick fans in. If you notice EVERY time they could they mentioned he was from So Fla. They need to stop that kind of naïve thinking. People don't give a crap where you are from, only that you can play ball, and that you might be here the next year.

The Yelich deal I think was more hurtful to people that are real baseball fans than the Stanton trade. Anyone with horse-sense could see why Stanton was gone. But Yelich was on a friendly deal, and that a 2nd team was so anxious to get rid of Brinson should be a warning sign. Some here will say "scouts have him rated as a can't miss prospect", well many of those people also would have/did say the same thing about Hermida, Skipworth, and the list can continue. They also make stupid trades like the Moran trade and give away assets...the man in charge of that, is still here...so where is the reason anyone should believe this "rebuild" will work. The attendance should be up with all the people that hated Loria should be excited to come back.....but they really screwed this up. I think there is a possibility Sherman/Jeter will put the team on the market after 2019. They just don't have the money to do this the right way. IFA is still a market that eludes the Marlins....and until they have an owner that can sustain losses for a while they will be in the cellar.

What if they do this and in 2 years say another "rebuild" is necessary ? What then ? They won't even get me to watch on TV anymore, much less go to the 20-30 games a year I do go to the last 25 years.

Brinson needs to become a star, and they need to get really lucky in the draft, or this franchise will be a cellar dweller for another generation (at least) if they aren't contracted altogether.

Brinson is/was a universal top 25 prospect in baseball and needs a little more time. They rushed him this spring because they are dumb, but that has nothing to do with his longterm playability. At worst, he can be plus defensively, bat .240 like Mike Cameron and basically all of baseball these days, jack 20+ bombs, and be a good 2-3+ WAR player. Is that why you trade Yelich? No, but Harrison and Diaz aren't chumps either and if they get 2 good starters out of them, it's probably a win considering how little they have to pay the other guys. I didn't love this trade compared to "you have Yelich signed for 5 years and he is awesome," but it is what it is. It's really a bit much to say they put any real weight on the dude being from Coral Springs since they have mentioned it on TV. Like you said, if you're good, people will like you even if you're from the North Korean Military Academy.

It would be a colossal embarrassment for MLB to have the team sold in 2019.

There is no chance they win only 35 games even if they play the AAA squad.

And in 2 years, what is there that could possibly be to rebuild? They will have basically -0- salary obligations besides Chen, all of the current guys that have under 2 years of service time will be here, cheap, controlled for years, and another 20-25 guys from the next trades/drafts/IFA will supplant that. It's just not a realistic position to think they are going to ship out more guys in 2 years unless something magical happens like 8 guys become # 1-3 SP and they can trade one for a bat. There's going to be nothing left to ship and everyone will be a longterm possibility.

What needs to happen is, anybody who isn't a reliever needs to become an all star (hopefully 2+), and hope they have a few position player and rotation pieces already figured out internally. I'm not even a homer when I look at this team and see at least 3-4 solid position player starters (Brinson, Anderson, Diaz, Harrison), likely some of their bench (Sierra, Lee, Cooper, whoever), 2-3 good SP (some collection of Alcantara, Garcia, Urena, Neidert, Peters, etc.), and an entire above average bullpen (Guzman, Steckenrider, Wittgren, Gallen, Merandy, Yamamoto, Richards, Beltre, Ca. Smith, O'Grady, Elisier, etc.) in the pipes. Probably no stars here which is a problem, but that's hopefully what the main Realmuto trade asset, 2018 draft, FA money, and hitting on Rogers/Garret/E. Cabrera will fix.

It's really not a doomsday scenario, but the team is going to suck this year whether it's 55 or 65 wins.

[Lee Stone]

I'm guessing that second member was me. I came in because Lee posted on fishstripes and that's the main forum that I take a look at. People there don't talk as much so i'm keeping an eye here and there.



I still think that we aren't that bad. Most of our losses we where in the game and lost the lead or something else happened. Just like the last two games. I also think that we don't have our best hitter in the team and best pitcher (Straily and Realmoney) and that some guys are under performing (Brinson/Bour/Bullpen). I hope that our young starters will settle in the upcoming weeks. It's only been 11 games and we have 151 to go.

Thanks for accepting my suggestion to join this forum. As I did for years on Fishstripes, I have offered up observations that stimulate conversation (and plenty of disagreement).

[Maddawg]

And you can continue this 35 win nonsense but you just sound like a moron. Go look at the worst team in ML history's roster and then continue to say that. We are already 5+ games ahead of that pace and havent had our best pitcher pitch, our best hitter hit, and our best pitching prospect come up when he could be a competent ML starter already.

Of course you have to resort to the namecalling don't you ? In my opinon they won't win more than around 35 games. They will have injuries, and have no intention of signing anyone worth anything for at least 3 years. Or trading for any contracts, so they can only get worse with the loss of Realmuto and Castro, and maybe Staily at the trade deadline.

Tell me what free agents are going to want to come here ? Jeter treated Stanton like a smelly pile of shit before he left. FA's see these things and their agents too. You don't think that will have any consequences ? I think it will.

[Maddawg]

Brinson is/was a universal top 25 prospect in baseball and needs a little more time. They rushed him this spring because they are dumb, but that has nothing to do with his longterm playability. At worst, he can be plus defensively, bat .240 like Mike Cameron and basically all of baseball these days, jack 20+ bombs, and be a good 2-3+ WAR player. Is that why you trade Yelich? No, but Harrison and Diaz aren't chumps either and if they get 2 good starters out of them, it's probably a win considering how little they have to pay the other guys. I didn't love this trade compared to "you have Yelich signed for 5 years and he is awesome," but it is what it is. It's really a bit much to say they put any real weight on the dude being from Coral Springs since they have mentioned it on TV. Like you said, if you're good, people will like you even if you're from the North Korean Military Academy.

It would be a colossal embarrassment for MLB to have the team sold in 2019.

There is no chance they win only 35 games even if they play the AAA squad.

And in 2 years, what is there that could possibly be to rebuild? They will have basically -0- salary obligations besides Chen, all of the current guys that have under 2 years of service time will be here, cheap, controlled for years, and another 20-25 guys from the next trades/drafts/IFA will supplant that. It's just not a realistic position to think they are going to ship out more guys in 2 years unless something magical happens like 8 guys become # 1-3 SP and they can trade one for a bat. There's going to be nothing left to ship and everyone will be a longterm possibility.

What needs to happen is, anybody who isn't a reliever needs to become an all star (hopefully 2+), and hope they have a few position player and rotation pieces already figured out internally. I'm not even a homer when I look at this team and see at least 3-4 solid position player starters (Brinson, Anderson, Diaz, Harrison), likely some of their bench (Sierra, Lee, Cooper, whoever), 2-3 good SP (some collection of Alcantara, Garcia, Urena, Neidert, Peters, etc.), and an entire above average bullpen (Guzman, Steckenrider, Wittgren, Gallen, Merandy, Yamamoto, Richards, Beltre, Ca. Smith, O'Grady, Elisier, etc.) in the pipes. Probably no stars here which is a problem, but that's hopefully what the main Realmuto trade asset, 2018 draft, FA money, and hitting on Rogers/Garret/E. Cabrera will fix.

It's really not a doomsday scenario, but the team is going to suck this year whether it's 55 or 65 wins.

History doesn't side with the Marlins drafting & devolping really good pitching. They got lucky with Fernandez, but outside of him its a pretty crappy history

[gustavopim]

Yes, it was you! Never got to properly welcome you.

I love FishStripes - they do news and analysis very well. Years ago we tried it ourselves and it didn’t take off very well. We’ll stick to conversation.

Yes, that's how I started liking the Marlins a little bit more. I'm actually from Brazil, but living in South Florida for the last 4 years. I could've picked any team and I guess I choose a bad one in the Marlins lol. There's no real way of going back in the passion. I played 9+ years of baseball/softball in Brazil.

Thanks for accepting my suggestion to join this forum. As I did for years on Fishstripes, I have offered up observations that stimulate conversation (and plenty of disagreement).

I agree with some of the observations you make and I don't with some, but I've always liked how you come up with different ideas.


Btw, there's no way the Marlins will win less than 35 games. It was just a slow start against good teams. Cubs, Red Sox, and red hot Mets.

[fish16]

Of course you have to resort to the namecalling don't you ? In my opinon they won't win more than around 35 games. They will have injuries, and have no intention of signing anyone worth anything for at least 3 years. Or trading for any contracts, so they can only get worse with the loss of Realmuto and Castro, and maybe Staily at the trade deadline.

Tell me what free agents are going to want to come here ? Jeter treated Stanton like a smelly pile of shit before he left. FA's see these things and their agents too. You don't think that will have any consequences ? I think it will.

its not namecalling, its truth. saying any mlb team will win just 35 games is one of the dumbest things that can be said and just shows a complete lack of understanding as to how bad you need to be to win that many games.

- - - - - - - - - -

History doesn't side with the Marlins drafting & devolping really good pitching. They got lucky with Fernandez, but outside of him its a pretty crappy history

so essentially everything positive they do is luck and everything else they do is just them being them?

[Maddawg]

its not namecalling, its truth. saying any mlb team will win just 35 games is one of the dumbest things that can be said and just shows a complete lack of understanding as to how bad you need to be to win that many games.

- - - - - - - - - -



so essentially everything positive they do is luck and everything else they do is just them being them?

It is namecalling, and I will not argue with you that matter. You are what you are....it's plain to see.

And they deserve zero credit because Jeter/Sherman have done two things, that put them in the not so bright category, 1) overpay for a franchise, that now they can't run except on a shoestring budget 2) Keep Michael Hill, who has proven to be extremely incompetent at running an MLB team, and obtaining talent for the minor league system. 4 to 5 years in a row with being the bottom or next to bottom talent means someone is terrible at their job, and now Jeter has extended his reign of terror & mis-management.

It's almosr as if Jeter is perpetrating one of the biggest & most costly troll-jobs ever...and what;s saddestr of all, is I'm sure he isn't trying to do that.

[gustavopim]

It is namecalling, and I will not argue with you that matter. You are what you are....it's plain to see.

And they deserve zero credit because Jeter/Sherman have done two things, that put them in the not so bright category, 1) overpay for a franchise, that now they can't run except on a shoestring budget 2) Keep Michael Hill, who has proven to be extremely incompetent at running an MLB team, and obtaining talent for the minor league system. 4 to 5 years in a row with being the bottom or next to bottom talent means someone is terrible at their job, and now Jeter has extended his reign of terror & mis-management.

It's almosr as if Jeter is perpetrating one of the biggest & most costly troll-jobs ever...and what;s saddestr of all, is I'm sure he isn't trying to do that.

We traded all our depth for rentals that didn't turn out to be what we expected. People say that most of the trades were made my Loria and not Hill. I'm guessing that Hill leaves after this year or 2019.

[fish16]

We traded all our depth for rentals that didn't turn out to be what we expected. People say that most of the trades were made my Loria and not Hill. I'm guessing that Hill leaves after this year or 2019.

exactly. Not defending hill for those moves, but given what we know about the first possible chance that Loria could sell the team without penalty and the win now moves leading up to that time for years to put bandaids on bad teams and act like they were winning moves makes it pretty clear exactly whose decision it was to make all those moves. And if you do any bit of research youll realize just how many of those stupid free agent decisions since we opened the ballpark were loria butting in and forcing the front offices hands.

[Maddawg]

We traded all our depth for rentals that didn't turn out to be what we expected. People say that most of the trades were made my Loria and not Hill. I'm guessing that Hill leaves after this year or 2019.

yep, some really stupid trades. Michael Hill is still responsible, because even if it was at Loria's behest, he loses his professional standing by doing his bidding. If you knw they are crap trades, quit....walk out on Loria, and at least your peers will know you weren't part of them. But he wanted the money more than being a stand up guy. Now when he's fired by Jeter he has no credibility as he was a lackey boy for Loria.

[fish16]

yep, some really stupid trades. Michael Hill is still responsible, because even if it was at Loria's behest, he loses his professional standing by doing his bidding. If you knw they are crap trades, quit....walk out on Loria, and at least your peers will know you weren't part of them. But he wanted the money more than being a stand up guy. Now when he's fired by Jeter he has no credibility as he was a lackey boy for Loria.

lol dude you're a joke. everything you say is just doused in cynicism and confirmation bias of how you totally absolutely know the 100% truth despite the fact that you not only dont, but you've demonstrated a complete and utter lack of baseball knowledge in every sense of the word on top of that. He could have just been doing the best in a shitty situation thanks to his owner and put in a horrible position and told what to do by the owner of the team against his wishes. You can sit there and act like youd do the totally "noble" thing and give up millions by quitting but you wouldnt do that and if you would that doesnt make Hill in the wrong for not choosing to do that if he thought it was the best decision for his family. its easy for you to sit there without actually having to put your money where your mouth is and you are taking the easy stance because hindsight is 20/20.