Season Super Game Thread

[lou]

In all seriousness how long before you see this team being at least a .500 team? I don't see anyone in the upper minors close to being anything more then an average contributor to the major league team. If this team doesn't do really well in the draft they are going to be in a serious bind improving the team. I don't see what has so many being all in with this new ownership group. Is it the fact that they just aren't Loria? They seem to be trying to be a different team at least at face value. They spent to the limit on the draft but it was only to sign one guy Banfield. They acquired some international spending money but it looks like they won't be able to use it because they didn't get enough to get the top guy Victor Victor. They included money in a trade (less then a million) to get a player back in a trade only to get back more depth nothing of note. To me it seems like they are only doing these things to say look we are different then the last owners but are they really improving the team? I give them that the minors have more depth but they lack any true top end guys. How is this team going to improve itself?

I don't think anyone is all in with the new ownership group, but I think it's fair to say they inherited a mess and it's going to take a year (or few) to judge them.

Your complaints are severe nitpicks to me. They went over slot on the draft to "only" sign one guy - who cares, they did. They got IFA money but might not be able to get one guy with it because someone can pay him more - who cares, they are going to spend it on guys regardless. Bour had little value so if the guy they got works out - and let's be real here, he was the same level of prospect as Ca. Smith, Richards, and Lopez a year ago - it's going to turn out to be a real smart move even if it's just a bullpen lefty. Bour is a 1.5 WAR player over his career per 160 games, and if you splits out his last two seasons where he has been better, that might get to 1.7+ WAR. It's not like this guy was a world beater. Bour is a solid bat against right handers, but maybe that gets replaced instantly with Dean (whenever he gets up). We're not talking much here with a player valued that low.

As for getting better, they are going to have to hit on some draft picks, sign productive FA in 20/21 (whenever decide they are ready to spend), and maybe get a breakout or two from the current crop of guys to really push into that elite category.

But, there is something to be said for building a club controlled team for 20/21 where they can trade depth (ideally, multiple SP turn into # 4s and better and they can trade a few of them and relievers) and use literally no money on the books besides Chen to get 3-5 free agents, at least 2 of those being major ones.

I think the only major player concern right now is Realmuto - sign him longterm or trade him for the motherload in the offseason?

Assuming they can sign him, Realmuto, Anderson, Diaz (I believe in the BB rate), and Brinson (I think June splits/defense will get him to at worst, a poor man's BJ Upton which is a solid starter) could turn into a pretty solid young core very quickly, and they should get some low end starters/solid bench guys out of Cooper, Dean, Sierra, Miller, Nelson, Riddle, etc. They definitely are going to need three more above average bats, including a star, to add to this. I think a best case scenario is a major free agent, Monte stops sucking, and a moderate "Reddick" type signing. I don't see anyone else breaking out like Anderson above Greensboro.

As for pitching, even if no 1/2s develop, if they get a collection of 3s out of Neidert, Guzman, Alcantara, Richards, Ca. Smith, etc., and some 4s out of Pablo, Urena, Gallen, Yamamoto, etc., that's great. That fills out the rotation to plop an "ace" on top. Bullpen isn't going to be an issue with the laundry list of 20 names we could all name, including the inevitable SP flameouts listed above. This also isn't including the lower minors of Cabrera, Rogers, Garret, etc. who arguably are all top 5-6 in upside of all the names here and could change the equation fast if they start dealing next year.

Basically, they could turn into the current A's in 2 years very easily. They have 1 star (Chapman-Realmuto), a bunch of pretty solid dudes (Lowrie, Siemen, Manea, K. Davis, Olson, Cahill, Canha(sigh) - Anderson, Diaz, Brinson, pick your favorite 4 SP candidates), and a great bullpen. What interests me is, the Marlins will theoretically have the budget to drop some big acquisitions on top of that as literally they'll have 17-20 guys at club controlled prices or Arb1.

Just saying. I think this needs some more time, but I see where I think they are going and that's OK giving the chess board they inherited.

To note the one glaring thing I think they may have really messed up as I'm not viewing this as all rainbows and sunshine, while I do like Diaz and think they'll get some production out of the other guys, trading Yelich is still incredibly risky. That's the # 1 complaint I still have. They had him for 5 years. I think we'd all love Yelich, JT, and Anderson, and prefer the issue of figuring out the rest of the field with the current pitching staff, sans only Yamamoto. Hope that works out.

[Lee Stone]

Double whiff on Rule 5's Hernandez and Graves? Feels that way .... always did.

[tjfla]

Double whiff on Rule 5's Hernandez and Graves? Feels that way .... always did.

Graves YES. We have guys in AA better than him-no clue why he is still around

Elieser not sure. Still young and could become something while in AAA next year

[fauowls44]

Elieser looks like a MLB arm to me. It’s not fair to judge him on the 50 innings so far when it’s the first time he’s pitched above A ball. He’s done enough to warrant sticking around the rest of the year to keep him in the system.

Graves pitches so infrequently that it’s hard to get a read on him. From what I’ve seen he just seems like an organizational depth guy.

[Nick]

Yeah Hernandez has held his own better than I thought he would having never pitched above A-Ball. I think he goes into next year with a clean slate at AAA at age 24, probably in the rotation and then at some point they'll decide whether to move him to the pen on permanent basis.

[tjfla]

Yeah Hernandez has held his own better than I thought he would having never pitched above A-Ball. I think he goes into next year with a clean slate at AAA at age 24, probably in the rotation and then at some point they'll decide whether to move him to the pen on permanent basis.

Exactly he will be in the Despaigne role. AAA SP depth but likely at RP

[flamarlins93]

I don't think anyone is all in with the new ownership group, but I think it's fair to say they inherited a mess and it's going to take a year (or few) to judge them.

Your complaints are severe nitpicks to me. They went over slot on the draft to "only" sign one guy - who cares, they did. They got IFA money but might not be able to get one guy with it because someone can pay him more - who cares, they are going to spend it on guys regardless. Bour had little value so if the guy they got works out - and let's be real here, he was the same level of prospect as Ca. Smith, Richards, and Lopez a year ago - it's going to turn out to be a real smart move even if it's just a bullpen lefty. Bour is a 1.5 WAR player over his career per 160 games, and if you splits out his last two seasons where he has been better, that might get to 1.7+ WAR. It's not like this guy was a world beater. Bour is a solid bat against right handers, but maybe that gets replaced instantly with Dean (whenever he gets up). We're not talking much here with a player valued that low.

As for getting better, they are going to have to hit on some draft picks, sign productive FA in 20/21 (whenever decide they are ready to spend), and maybe get a breakout or two from the current crop of guys to really push into that elite category.

But, there is something to be said for building a club controlled team for 20/21 where they can trade depth (ideally, multiple SP turn into # 4s and better and they can trade a few of them and relievers) and use literally no money on the books besides Chen to get 3-5 free agents, at least 2 of those being major ones.

I think the only major player concern right now is Realmuto - sign him longterm or trade him for the motherload in the offseason?

Assuming they can sign him, Realmuto, Anderson, Diaz (I believe in the BB rate), and Brinson (I think June splits/defense will get him to at worst, a poor man's BJ Upton which is a solid starter) could turn into a pretty solid young core very quickly, and they should get some low end starters/solid bench guys out of Cooper, Dean, Sierra, Miller, Nelson, Riddle, etc. They definitely are going to need three more above average bats, including a star, to add to this. I think a best case scenario is a major free agent, Monte stops sucking, and a moderate "Reddick" type signing. I don't see anyone else breaking out like Anderson above Greensboro.

As for pitching, even if no 1/2s develop, if they get a collection of 3s out of Neidert, Guzman, Alcantara, Richards, Ca. Smith, etc., and some 4s out of Pablo, Urena, Gallen, Yamamoto, etc., that's great. That fills out the rotation to plop an "ace" on top. Bullpen isn't going to be an issue with the laundry list of 20 names we could all name, including the inevitable SP flameouts listed above. This also isn't including the lower minors of Cabrera, Rogers, Garret, etc. who arguably are all top 5-6 in upside of all the names here and could change the equation fast if they start dealing next year.

Basically, they could turn into the current A's in 2 years very easily. They have 1 star (Chapman-Realmuto), a bunch of pretty solid dudes (Lowrie, Siemen, Manea, K. Davis, Olson, Cahill, Canha(sigh) - Anderson, Diaz, Brinson, pick your favorite 4 SP candidates), and a great bullpen. What interests me is, the Marlins will theoretically have the budget to drop some big acquisitions on top of that as literally they'll have 17-20 guys at club controlled prices or Arb1.

Just saying. I think this needs some more time, but I see where I think they are going and that's OK giving the chess board they inherited.

To note the one glaring thing I think they may have really messed up as I'm not viewing this as all rainbows and sunshine, while I do like Diaz and think they'll get some production out of the other guys, trading Yelich is still incredibly risky. That's the # 1 complaint I still have. They had him for 5 years. I think we'd all love Yelich, JT, and Anderson, and prefer the issue of figuring out the rest of the field with the current pitching staff, sans only Yamamoto. Hope that works out.

I am saying I believe they didn't handle the draft wisely. They intended to spend over the limit regardless just for the sake of saying they did. Whatever I hope the top guys pan out. As for acquiring the IFA cash I think they did that for the same reason just to try and show that they are being different from Loria. If they don't use it by next year they lose what they have and acquired so no I don't think they will use it. There really isn't anyone left beside Victor and his brother.

As for the Bour trade I don't care that they traded him I didn't see him coming back next year anyhow.

Do we know if they will sign any free agents much less big money free agents? No we don't. We can't count on that being part of the solution. As much as they are pinching pennies now I find it hard to believe that they are planning to make any FA signings anytime soon. I see them continuing bringing up minor league over achievers hoping one may finally figure it out at the big league level. I see that as the reason for still picking up these upper minor league depth players.

I don't see why they are rushing some of these pitchers who still have some work to do figuring things out. I think they should have planned ahead and sign multiple minor league starters with some major league experience to allow guys like Lopez to continue to develop in the minors. That way they aren't burning up his service time now when the team is going nowhere.

I think Realmuto is great like everyone else but right now signing him to an extension doesn't really help the future of this team. Since it will be a few years before for them to start to get things straightened out keeping him now is pointless. Saying that if they continue to move guys I don't see him wanting to stay anyhow. This paves the way for teams to low ball them offer wise since they will know he doesn't truly want to be there and if he ask for a trade regardless given that they have done so for players in the past they will move him too.

As for the pitching no there are not any top of the rotation guys. Niedert, Lopez , Richards and Smith are our best shot at major league starters. Alcantara may turn in to a bottom of the rotation guy but I still see him as a reliever. Guzman is a reliever. So we may be able to have a few guys be starters but have plenty of bullpen depth for sure. If Realmuto stays that fills one position and Anderson fills another tho where that is right now is still in question. Hopefully Diaz can be an average 2B other then that we have a bunch of bench players. I have little faith that Brinson will be a solid starter and will not much else on the horizon.

I just don't think you can count on them spending to fix all these problems regardless if Chen and Prado are gone. Plus they will have to start paying the money for Stanton to the Yankees so that will cut into the payroll as well.

I really want this team to be decent again but I just don't have all the optimism that this ownership group will be successful. They did inherit a bad situation with large contracts and no minor league depth or minor league stars. So far all I have seen is money worries. Concerns about lowering payroll and trying to appear on the outside that they are different otherwise. Hopefully they know what they are doing but I still can't see when this team will be mediocre again give what they have done.

[fauowls44]

Jon Heyman

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Marlins acquire infielder Chris Bostick from pirates for cash

11:45 AM - 12 Aug 2018

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Frisaro says Bostick will go on the 40 man roster and report to New Orleans.

That they are adding him to the 40 man is the most intriguing part of this move. With the roster at 40, it'll be interesting if this means more moves are coming.

[dim]

This is your yearly reminder that the Marlins gave up Trevor Williams for a pitching coach...

And 99% of this message board defended the move.

See you all next year for the 2019 reminder!

[Lee Stone]

Jon Heyman

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Marlins acquire infielder Chris Bostick from pirates for cash

11:45 AM - 12 Aug 2018

- - - - - - - - - -

Frisaro says Bostick will go on the 40 man roster and report to New Orleans.

That they are adding him to the 40 man is the most intriguing part of this move. With the roster at 40, it'll be interesting if this means more moves are coming.

Seemed like the Marlins had a few Bosticks at New Orleans already ... Campbell, Mooney, Adames

Curious to see Merandy Gonzalez today. He seems to have gotten himself squared away at JAX in last three starts, all 7 innings with a single run allowed.

When building a new roster, here's hoping Miami goes for players that are willing to take bases on balls. Now that Bour is gone, only Brian Anderson sits in the top 100 in that category. Austin Dean checks off that box too, walking about 10% of his at bats.

In case you missed it, here's an interesting perspective on Miami players. I agree with most all of what the scout says, esp. the observation about Harrison always taking a first pitch strike. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...215848275.html

[tjfla]

This is your yearly reminder that the Marlins gave up Trevor Williams for a pitching coach...

And 99% of this message board defended the move.

See you all next year for the 2019 reminder!

Wasn't even a pitching coach and Jeff had to because he also hired Del Piano to "run" the farm system

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Jon Heyman

Verified account

@JonHeyman
Following Following @JonHeyman
More
Marlins acquire infielder Chris Bostick from pirates for cash

11:45 AM - 12 Aug 2018

- - - - - - - - - -

Frisaro says Bostick will go on the 40 man roster and report to New Orleans.

That they are adding him to the 40 man is the most intriguing part of this move. With the roster at 40, it'll be interesting if this means more moves are coming.

40 man doesn't mean much since guys like Cloyd,Del Pozo,Galloway can be DFA easy

Bostick is a younger better bat than Galloway who can play ALL 3 OF spots as well as 3B,SS,2B. See YA Issac Loria
Bostick is a better bat than Rivera but not as good of a glove

Still confused as hell as to why they don't give Austin Dean a shot. I understand getting Bostick because UT guy but get rid of Galloway and send Graves back to Oakland!!!

[fauowls44]

Wasn't even a pitching coach and Jeff had to because he also hired Del Piano to "run" the farm system

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40 man doesn't mean much since guys like Cloyd,Del Pozo,Galloway can be DFA easy

Bostick is a younger better bat than Galloway who can play ALL 3 OF spots as well as 3B,SS,2B. See YA Issac Loria
Bostick is a better bat than Rivera but not as good of a glove

Still confused as hell as to why they don't give Austin Dean a shot. I understand getting Bostick because UT guy but get rid of Galloway and send Graves back to Oakland!!!

Yeah, the Dean thing is really odd to me. He has nothing more to prove in AAA. There is no reason that we shouldn't be giving him a look right now.

It's a very small sample size, but you can see why they like Ortega. He has good at bats, draws walks, makes contact, and adds some speed. If they want to get a look at him the rest of the way, fine...put him in CF (and RF when Brinson is ready), let Dean play LF the rest of the year, and and move Anderson to 3rd. It doesn't make sense to not call Dean up at this point.

[lou]

Yeah, the Dean thing is really odd to me. He has nothing more to prove in AAA. There is no reason that we shouldn't be giving him a look right now.

It's a very small sample size, but you can see why they like Ortega. He has good at bats, draws walks, makes contact, and adds some speed. If they want to get a look at him the rest of the way, fine...put him in CF (and RF when Brinson is ready), let Dean play LF the rest of the year, and and move Anderson to 3rd. It doesn't make sense to not call Dean up at this point.

Do they (we) care about Dean's service time? i.e., call up mid-April 2019 and get an extra year. I'm not sure he's a longterm guy with his lack of a power profile so I say bring him up and if he makes it 6 years that's amazing, but maybe they like him more than that?

OF should definitely be Dean-Brinson-Cooper/Ortega here on out (assuming 100% health), and call up that Bostick guy when rosters expand.

Or just call up Dean and Bostick now for Galloway and Sierra. That would be great and call up the whole band when roster's expand.

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I am saying I believe they didn't handle the draft wisely. They intended to spend over the limit regardless just for the sake of saying they did. Whatever I hope the top guys pan out. As for acquiring the IFA cash I think they did that for the same reason just to try and show that they are being different from Loria. If they don't use it by next year they lose what they have and acquired so no I don't think they will use it. There really isn't anyone left beside Victor and his brother.

As for the Bour trade I don't care that they traded him I didn't see him coming back next year anyhow.

Do we know if they will sign any free agents much less big money free agents? No we don't. We can't count on that being part of the solution. As much as they are pinching pennies now I find it hard to believe that they are planning to make any FA signings anytime soon. I see them continuing bringing up minor league over achievers hoping one may finally figure it out at the big league level. I see that as the reason for still picking up these upper minor league depth players.

I don't see why they are rushing some of these pitchers who still have some work to do figuring things out. I think they should have planned ahead and sign multiple minor league starters with some major league experience to allow guys like Lopez to continue to develop in the minors. That way they aren't burning up his service time now when the team is going nowhere.

I think Realmuto is great like everyone else but right now signing him to an extension doesn't really help the future of this team. Since it will be a few years before for them to start to get things straightened out keeping him now is pointless. Saying that if they continue to move guys I don't see him wanting to stay anyhow. This paves the way for teams to low ball them offer wise since they will know he doesn't truly want to be there and if he ask for a trade regardless given that they have done so for players in the past they will move him too.

As for the pitching no there are not any top of the rotation guys. Niedert, Lopez , Richards and Smith are our best shot at major league starters. Alcantara may turn in to a bottom of the rotation guy but I still see him as a reliever. Guzman is a reliever. So we may be able to have a few guys be starters but have plenty of bullpen depth for sure. If Realmuto stays that fills one position and Anderson fills another tho where that is right now is still in question. Hopefully Diaz can be an average 2B other then that we have a bunch of bench players. I have little faith that Brinson will be a solid starter and will not much else on the horizon.

I just don't think you can count on them spending to fix all these problems regardless if Chen and Prado are gone. Plus they will have to start paying the money for Stanton to the Yankees so that will cut into the payroll as well.

I really want this team to be decent again but I just don't have all the optimism that this ownership group will be successful. They did inherit a bad situation with large contracts and no minor league depth or minor league stars. So far all I have seen is money worries. Concerns about lowering payroll and trying to appear on the outside that they are different otherwise. Hopefully they know what they are doing but I still can't see when this team will be mediocre again give what they have done.

I think you are viewing this way too negatively and not objectively. We should all be critical, but there are a lot of assumptions here and it's likely not going to be complete doom and gloom. I don't know how you can spin them spending "over slot" for the entire draft is a negative and they did it just for a press release. I don't think things work that way. They went out and got talent (also, the 2018 early draft picks are kicking ass in their small sample size if you haven't looked). I don't think it's a negative to acquire IFA money (which they will use, or if they can't use, use in a trade). They are creating an asset there, we just have to wait to see them use it. Again, I think it's crazy to think they are doing things like that for a press release. Of course Realmuto signing an extension helps the team - he's 27. The Marlins may not even have to pay Stanton if he opts out for a California team (I find this very likely).

I think you should let it play out and not expect these guys to come in and fix a poorly run franchise in 9 months. Realmuto, seven 2+ WAR guys (Anderson, Diaz Brinson, Neidert, Ca. Smith, Richards, Pablo, "pick your favorite pitcher or Monte or whoever"), and a killer top 10 bullpen (Alcantara, Guzman, Steckenrider, Conley, Gallen, etc.) is very likely going to be sub $50 million and 25+ WAR, maybe as soon as 2020. You can do a lot with that, just like the current A's are. Plop a star free agent, 2-3 normal free agent contributors starters, and you can probably add 10+ real fast and that's a contender. If the Marlins get a real breakout, like Monte stops whiffing, Diaz becomes a 30/30 guy who can play defense, Richards "80 changeup" is a real thing, Alcantara and Guzman actually hit their SP projections versus back end relievers, etc., you're talking about huge leaps fast.

It's fine to not be optimistic, I agree there given the state of the franchise, but you've swung too far in the other direction. Criticizing them for spending more than recommended money on the draft and saying a Realmuto extension isn't helpful? Dial it back 25% and hope for the best.

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40 man doesn't mean much since guys like Cloyd,Del Pozo,Galloway can be DFA easy

Bostick is a younger better bat than Galloway who can play ALL 3 OF spots as well as 3B,SS,2B. See YA Issac Loria
Bostick is a better bat than Rivera but not as good of a glove

Still confused as hell as to why they don't give Austin Dean a shot. I understand getting Bostick because UT guy but get rid of Galloway and send Graves back to Oakland!!!

You have to endure Graves for 18 days and rosters expand. Don't you just do it for the hell of it at this point?

Honestly I don't care about Graves, but I'll be pissed if they send him back when we're at 18 days. It's out of principle at this point to keep him.

[tjfla]

Well Rule 5 guys have to be on the roster(Non DL or Rehab) for 90 days. No clue how long he has been on ML Roster so far-if he doesn't hit 90 days then he has to be on ML roster next year too

Ya u are right but next year he will be taking up a roster spot until they DFA him. My issue is we have guys better than him in AAA and even AA

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Bostick is nothing special but I do like how they are adding talent who could help the possibly help ML team

They are trying hard to move Castro before Sept with Prado to 2B and BA to 3B. Still not having much luck tho

[lou]

Well Rule 5 guys have to be on the roster(Non DL or Rehab) for 90 days. No clue how long he has been on ML Roster so far-if he doesn't hit 90 days then he has to be on ML roster next year too

Ya u are right but next year he will be taking up a roster spot until they DFA him. My issue is we have guys better than him in AAA and even AA

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Bostick is nothing special but I do like how they are adding talent who could help the possibly help ML team

They are trying hard to move Castro before Sept with Prado to 2B and BA to 3B. Still not having much luck tho

If they keep Graves, Bostick, and Ortega, the 40 man starts getting interesting:

SP - Alcantara, Chen, Lopez, Peters, Richards, Ca. Smith, Straily, Urena, Yamamoto

RP - Barraclough, Brigham, Conley, Garcia, M. Gonzalez, Graves, Guerrero, Guzman, E. Hernandez, Meyer, O’Grady, Quijada, Rucinski, Steckenrider, Wittgren

C- Realmuto

IF - Anderson, Bour, Castro, Cooper, Diaz, Prado, Riddle, Rojas

OF - Bostick, Brison, Dietrich, Dean, Harrison, Ortega, Lee, Sierra

=41 (one over, but I think Guzman might not need to be protected so it might be 40)

Guys who would be DFA’d in this scenario - Rivera, Kinley, Nola, Twine, Norwood, Cloyd, Del Pozo, Despaigne, Guerra, Needy, Holiday, Wallach, Galloway, Telis. This is a whole lot of "who cares" to me. There is some talent here, but I don't see anyone they desperately need to protect here?


Now, you can easily make room here at the same time:
-Officially give up and DFA Chen and Prado
-Trade Straily, Barraclough, Rojas, and/or Dietrich which shouldn't be that difficult for any of them
-Outright release/minor trades for Graves, Meyer, O'Grady, Rucinski, Bostick, Ortega, and Lee. That's got to be the bottom 7 here (no order), ignoring Chen and Prado.

Practically, I'm not THAT worried about the 40 man right now. They can wipe out half of those dozen guys listed directly above to make room, and that gives them the ability to bring in some guys, get others in a trade, pluck one in the Rule 5, etc.

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Oh obviously Castro can be lumped into the "they can move them" category, as someone will take him fast if they throw in some bucks.