2024 Game Thread

[lou]

id take it very slow with mack. he is somehow still just 21. Give him the whole year in AAA next year. Let the bat develop. I'd also like to see them promote serna to AAA when they promote norby up here soon. he will probably stuggle but i always like to give guys who master a level the opportunity to get a few PA's under their belt at the next level before starting the next year at that level. Gives them the offseason to work on what will inevitably be some weaknesses in his game that get exposed in his first taste of AAA.

I still highly doubt berry becomes anything at this point other than what colin moran was at the big league level, which was my bad comp for him when he was drafted. There just doesnt seem to be much to his game. The power just is not there. Even in this 3 month stretch of success, it's only 6 hr's over 3 months and only 11 doubles.

Mack should be a 2026 guy for sure at earliest. He's still 21. He's controlled via options 2026-2028 effectively if you do that and he'll only be 25 in 2028. Catchers usually develop late, etc. This is a slow burn with 2026 a best case arrival. But, this looks like a real step forward which is great.

I agree with you on Berry and if he was hitting for velocity we'd probably know, but it's a big turnaround over 200+ PA so its something. I'd just like a report as that is still an impressive slash even if its singles dominated. Some improvement has happened. Is he better on one side of the plate even? What's going on here ultimately.

[Nick]

Also, anybody know what they see in Ali Sanchez? Get Banfield a look. See how he compares with what Fortes has done this season. You're eventually going to have to pick between the two.

[Nick]

I like the idea of eventually bookending the lineup with Edwards leadoff and Sanoja 9th and just filling up the other 7 spots with power.

[lou]

sanoja i hadnt really looked into until recently and he seems very rays-ish. When i think rays i think high OBP and good plate discipline with a lot of walks. He reminds me of margot with better plate discipline. No crazy speed, no significant power, but low k's, high walks (margot didnt walk much), decent SB numbers, and low slugging.

Wouldnt mind seeing what he has in September for a month and then start him in AAA again next year and hope he mashes and breaks the door down for a roster spot by june

They probably aren't burning service time with him this September. He's 21, so it's not like a 25 year old where you'd be preserving an age 30 season.

He will finish 2025 under .171 days of service time is the prediction, but I think he's going to get a lot a lot of PA next year. He looks better than Mesa Jr. which is his internal competition (and I suppose Dane maybe), but he has a LHP split in AAA (.855 vs .779 against RHP). A CF who can hit LHP is going to play a lot with Sanchez and Stowers both left handers, and Norby a LF only type. I have a hard time not seeing him on the team for months next year with the ability to also pitch in at SS/3B.

[Namaste]

Also, anybody know what they see in Ali Sanchez? Get Banfield a look. See how he compares with what Fortes has done this season. You're eventually going to have to pick between the two.

The only thing I can add is that every ball he's thrown down to 2B on a steal attempt is a one hop laser with perfect location.

[fish16]

Also, anybody know what they see in Ali Sanchez? Get Banfield a look. See how he compares with what Fortes has done this season. You're eventually going to have to pick between the two.

i think he's just taking up space for the rest of the year. Banfield can't hit yet and probably wont ever be more than a mathis type defense only backup. i'd let him repeat AAA next year as well and hope he can get up above .800 OPS with more reps. Plate discipline has been bad this year and his power hasnt come yet at this higher level. Give him and Mack all year next year in AAA, let them develop some more and see what you got. Seems like a bad recipe to put a guy in banfield who has struggled at every level up at the big league level to not only be overwhelmed hitting but also trying to catch the major league staff. Just run out the year with him in AAA

[lou]

Also, anybody know what they see in Ali Sanchez? Get Banfield a look. See how he compares with what Fortes has done this season. You're eventually going to have to pick between the two.

No, Sanchez is a body. I'd play Pereda and see if he hits.


But, is it a good time to mention Banfield has an .893 OPS vs LHP this year in AAA? It's SSS, but he's right handed and hits lefties, and Mack is left handed and is just drilling righties better than everyone in the Southern league. I briefly mentioned this awhile back, but the splits are in fact holding here for Banfield too.

Yea there is Ramirez, but maybe he is a 1B/DH. Or best utilized 50+ games as a backup. If one of Mack or Banfield work out, you can see a world they get the lion's share of the pitching they hit and they figure out what to do with the rest of the games as the opt for the offense with Ramirez, or defense with them. Maybe all 3 work out and coexist? You can see that too. The Rays always have valued defenders over hitters at catcher. Zunino hit bombs but he was a defender first. I'm sure their deepest desire is a R/L platoon with Mack and Banfield and then they figure out WTF to do with a 1B/DH surplus of Burger, Ramirez, DDLS, Martorella, and Berry. If they even get a surplus.

I wouldn't call up Banfield to preserve the option year. I think you want him up/down 2026-2028 which are his age 25-27 seasons. No rush right now. Let Fortes, Pereda, and Sanchez battle it out for who gets to be catcher for probably half the season next year. Ramirez and Banfield can share the # 2 spot IMO and Mack replaces Fortes/Pereda/Sanchez in 2026 on the 40 man.

[lou]

i think he's just taking up space for the rest of the year. Banfield can't hit yet and probably wont ever be more than a mathis type defense only backup. i'd let him repeat AAA next year as well and hope he can get up above .800 OPS with more reps. Plate discipline has been bad this year and his power hasnt come yet at this higher level. Give him and Mack all year next year in AAA, let them develop some more and see what you got. Seems like a bad recipe to put a guy in banfield who has struggled at every level up at the big league level to not only be overwhelmed hitting but also trying to catch the major league staff. Just run out the year with him in AAA

I'd agree Banfield should get 80+ starts in AAA, and Mack 80+ starts in AA and then get a AAA promotion late. At some point you just gotta treat Banfield as the backup though and I imagine you can absolutely play him immediately against left handers. If he can't be the backup in 2026, they need someone else as Ramirez and Mack will both be on the 40 man and it's hard to carry 4 catchers. Assuming Ramirez stays there.

Banfield also gets more Hedges versus Mathis comps. Hedges is a 2 WAR per 600 PA player for his career, and Mathis more like a .6-.7 guy. The defense plays and Hedges has hit some dingers. FG says Banfield has less power than Hedges but is a similar tracked player. Sign me up to Banfield being 1/2 the player Hedges has been ultimately.

[Nick]

I don't see the point of saving Banfield's service time. This is a backup catcher we're talking about. I think he'll be a good backup catcher, but we're not talking about a guy that's going to be breaking the bank in arbitration, then if he's still in the league 6 years from now, should not be too expensive to bring back if they choose to.

Is the bat major league ready? Probably not, but our catcher's as a whole are OPSing sub .500, I'd put money on him at least being able to match that. Give him the reps, see what he's got.

[lou]

I don't see the point of saving Banfield's service time. This is a backup catcher we're talking about. I think he'll be a good backup catcher, but we're not talking about a guy that's going to be breaking the bank in arbitration, then if he's still in the league 6 years from now, should not be too expensive to bring back if they choose to.

Is the bat major league ready? Probably not, but our catcher's as a whole are OPSing sub .500, I'd put money on him at least being able to match that. Give him the reps, see what he's got.

Not the service time on this one if I was unclear. It's more about preserving the option year. If he's just a third catcher, there you go 2025-2027 sitting in AAA as the third catcher and we're not signing Sanchez and Peredas or whoever. Call him up now and this delta moves to 2025-2026 as we're blowing that option. I mean there is some real value having a legitimate 3rd defensive catcher if thats the floor in AAA, and he may actually have some offensive upside on top of that as he has banged 31 HR his last 800 or so PA and has this really interesting lefty split this year. So if it's show us a little something now as the catchers suck, or get 2027 as frankly an evaluation year down the road when he is 27 at that time, I'm shooting for the long term view here in 2027. Catchers just develop late sometimes. Barnes didn't make it at the MLB level until he was 27. Nola and Stallings 29. We can really really slow roll him here and I don't think getting a feet wet thing right now is worth it to potentially developing that asset down the line. Just saying here. This is a micro decision that could look smart in years, even if this is all lower probability as catchers who can't hit for average are very volatile.

That being said, I do hope to see him take over the backup catcher spot at some point in 2025 and we're clamoring for an ascending Mack to join him in a potentially superior defensive duo with platoon splits and slugging potential. That can happen with Banfield getting 500 more PA in AAA and Mack the same in AA and even more in AAA ultimately.

I'm dreaming of a Zunino 2018 type platoon. He hit .201/.259/.410 with superior defense, and busted out a 1.9 WAR in 400 PA. Extrapolate to 600+ PA over the two of them, and this is somehow a 3 WAR catcher platoon quickly. That's legitimately top 8-12 production at the position on a team level as teams don't have these type of high defense/high power catcher platoons, and that's a high floor as its defense and falling into random bombs with no average or walks. And then imagine if they hit .230 and Ramirez chips in.

Anyways, I'd slow roll them both and keep them as long as possible as you never know when some late 20s magic could happen.

[lou]

Berry hit another HR last night. 1/3, HR, BB, 0 K. Since May 25th, 225 PA .310/.382/.480 (.350 BABIP), 9% BB / 16% K. This month his starts are at - 6 RF, 3 2B, 1 1B, and 2 DH.

Season line 392 PA, .238/.304/.361 (.285 BABIP), 11/13 SB too which is fun.

Among qualified leaders in the Southern League, Matt Shaw (CHC) is one of the best hitters and he's hitting .279/.373/.468 for comparison purposes. He's done it close to 350 PA and can play SS/3B w/ huge base running upside so there is a reason he is a top prospect and Berry is not.... but Berry is hitting as well as anyone in the entire league since May 25th when he really turned it around from the mega slump. Carson Williams has an .820 OPS in the same league.

I want to read into this position deployment as they are real confident about Burger, DDLS (playing mostly 1B and peaked him at 3B a two games in last few weeks), and Martorella (playing exclusive 1B it seems) covering 1B for a long time so it's finding a home for Berry elsewhere if his bat makes it. Ramirez is near exclusively catching and I imagine his fallback is DH. Right field would be more than fine if he can do it.

Maybe the bottom is going to drop out as it's just weak contact (Shaw slugging the same hitting 30 points less, etc.), but every time I look, he is hitting with an above average whiff rate. It could just be a Colin Moran thing like fish16 analogizes which is a pretty good comp TBH (Moran also hit AA similar and then the downturn happened in AAA), but what's interesting with Moran is he had about 1200 PA 2017-2020 at the big league level and hit about .270/.325/.435 (I am eye balling that), couldn't play defense, but got to a 1.9 WAR during that time. I mean, that's a pretty solid bench hitter ultimately, especially one that has options to call up and down. Berry might have a platoon split also - the splits tools on MiLB only do season long so I can't pop out from 5/25 which is what I really want to see, but he's hit all his HR this year against RHP and has 100+ OPS advantage to right handers. Lefties are carving him up. He might be redundant with Martorella (and Sanchez, and probably Stowers if they all make it) as a guy who can only hit RHP as he moves up, but hey just develop these guys and figure it out later. Make good problems. The disappointment is low right now if Berry starts tracking as a mid .700 bench bat ala Moran those years or maybe a poor man's Carlos Santana, that is helpful for sure. With 6th pick pedigree, its time for some service to get a real update as to what changes have happened here. Maybe it's not a massive step forward, but this is a radical improvement from his previous 700 PA as a professional and I'll defer to hope for now.

[Nick]

Meyer looking very hittable.

[Namaste]

If you didn’t see the amazing defensive play started by Derek Hill in the win against the Mets today….



https://www.mlb.com/video/valente-be...to-pete-alonso

[Namaste]

Norby called up

[lou]

Norby called up

Good, although it seems they burn his rookie eligibility but it’s also not likely he’d win ROY next year either for the draft picks