2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

Or trade with St. Louis eho need pitching and get Ivan Herrera who is 23 with tons of upside but blocked.

a young catcher wouldnt hurt, but catchers can take a while to develop.Look at Keibert Ruiz on the nats for example. Going to be very good, but it's a really tough grind for young catchers to get their bodies built up for a 162 game season all while trying to figure out big league hitting. He's getting better and they smartly signed him early, but he hasnt been an impact hitter his first 2 years there. For next year, id want a guy like Jansen who is proven and if we go get a young controllable guy, let it be at SS like the Ortiz option or in the corner OF.

[lou]

I'm not as confident as you on 1. Toronto dealing Jansen. 2. If Toronto deals Jansen, I feel like there will be a ton of suitors Miami will have to outbid, so getting 2 guys who can play defense competently and swing the bat confidently in the 9-hole may be enough, to maintain some kind of minor league system, and then bring back the players we need to bring back, and make the right acquisitions in Free Agency. I think a Free Agent starter is key, we need a guy who we know will give you 180+ quality innings. Sandy is that guy but we'll see what his status will be. Give you those guaranteed innings, and just see how guys like Eury and Meyer progress, keep their innings down so they're ready to rock in September.

Fair enough, but it's the money. $12.25m is stuck with Yimi and C. Green and they don't need them as they have arms (plus if the Marlins were to send 1-2 play now RP, and especially one of the premium lefties). That is a massive bailout for them. Shit, maybe FORTES is the answer here and he's shot back also to give them an immediate backup and the Marlins then look for a Jansen backup. Fortes isn't a shlub. It only works with Toronto eating those RHP relievers, that's really my point here.

[lou]

Or trade with St. Louis eho need pitching and get Ivan Herrera who is 23 with tons of upside but blocked.

I think they'd move Knizner and keep the control years with Herrera.

But Knizner + Edman is another great idea for sure, and then really focus on getting another SP in FA to help with Sandy issues. Retain Soler on the QO, etc. The teams fill out themselves. I'm fine with a lame C situation if they do get a radical SS upgrade they can keep longterm and some bash shows up in OF/DH.

[lou]

i like danny jansen the player, and maybe im just jaded with john buck in the past, but it just feels like for whatever reason anyone who goes to toronto hits regardless of position, and im just worried he comes here and the low OBP and BA craters. He is good defensively so it would be a massive upgrade, i just think the bat might not be as good as what it has been in toronto, but again, that is still much improved from what we have seen. I also love mitch garver as a backup who can be a DH a lot and i think he plays a little 1b as well. If Soler goes, could be an interesting player who can fill mutliple positions like occasional start at 1b, DH, and backup C. Might even allow you to still carry fortes depending on how the roster shakes out. He can flat out mash, and i doubt he gets anywhere near as much as Soler in the open market, so that might be a cheaper replacement, and we can get a corner OF to replace Soler in the OF and then trade DLC for a righty reliever.

I'm not breaking any news here, but we just need some sort of massive C upgrade. It's close, but i'd view that as a bigger need than SS.

Trevor Rogers is the one to dangle in my opinion, and Thomas White. Id hang onto Noble for next year though as i think his value could get super high in a year or 2 and we can either replace a pitcher who we end up dealing in the future or he could be a bigger piece in a bigger deal as we move forward in the next few years.

I doubt rogers has a ton of value, but who knows. It's impossible to say. im ready to move on because it;s been bad and injured for the last 2.5 years essentially, but maybe sees some value there and we can acquire a bat without essentially touching any pieces of the team this year. Baltimore needs pitching and they have a plethora of hitting, plus we seem to have some experience dealing with their front office in the trades we've made for Scott, Villar, etc. Got to explore that.

Maybe but Jansen is a good defender like you said. I think his career line (.743 OPS) is an offensive floor with much room for improvement, and it's an easy 2+ WAR catcher. If the price is right I am all in and happy to take those expensive RHP relievers off their hands as they are solid enough for everything else they can throw lefty wise as Scott and Puk should be elite. With Max coming also like you mentioned.

[Namaste]

Trade Berti while he has a little value. We don’t need fast guys who are shitty baserunners.

[fish16]

Trade Berti while he has a little value. We don’t need fast guys who are shitty baserunners.

agreed, and it looked like he lost a step this year, though he may have been dealing with a lower body injury. Nice player, we got a ton of value out of him for nothing, but Hampson can replace him since we have him under control for next year according to Spotrac. Plus you have edwards in the mix too. Id rather go with the young guys. I really think some combo of him, Rogers, and DLC can get us some pieces that help next year, whether it is Jansen or some quality controllable righty bullpen arms to pair with Puk, Scott, and Nardi.

[fish16]

pretty disastrous 48 hours all around for florida baseball. Marlins and rays combined to score 3 runs in 4 games, and the rays had the lowest playoff attendance in literally over a century, pretty crazy a great season for both teams can be extinguished in the blink of an eye

[Nick]

Agreed, but it needs to be one of the top guys if that is the route we go. We tried the innings eating Cueto, and that obviously didnt work out. With Sandy's TJ a very likely possibility, give us a guy who can not only eat innings, but do it at a good to great level. It allows us to theoretically remain competitive next year if Sandy is out, and then if sandy comes back in 2025, you have a super elite rotation, and one of the guys opens up a trade possibility to add to the lineup even more in 2025 depending on what holes we still have after next year, or you have a huge array of surplus arms to move to the bullpen to have an overall dominant pitching staff.

Absolutely, go get Nola.

[fish16]

Absolutely, go get Nola.

completely agree. He would be the perfect high ceiling innings eater.

[lou]

Trade Berti while he has a little value. We don’t need fast guys who are shitty baserunners.

I like this idea too but Berti is SO CHEAP and is still playing like a 2+ WAR player he is excellent value and they'd probably get something similar at the deadline if the fall out as he's what every contender wants on their bench.


..... and Scott if you can't resign him for 3 years ::runs away yelling he will never have a 2.8 WAR again and relievers are volatile::

[Nick]

I think having both Berti and Hampson coming off the bench is ideal. Catcher, Berti, Hampson, and then just go and get the best hitter you can for the last spot. Basically Yuli's role this year, but get a much better hitter.

[Nick]

I mean you could just have Johnston take over Yuli's role, but I think that role might be tough for a younger hitter.

[lou]

Absolutely, go get Nola.

I'd pass on him. He is beginning his decline phase (highest xFIP since 2019) IMO and 2 of last 3 years have been pretty high ERAs even if the analytics say he is still a 4+ WAR pitcher. He will easily get a 5-6 year deal and the back 3 years may be scary. If the Phillies don't resign him, I think it speaks a lot to their longterm confidence in him as he is a legend for them.

Call me cheap, but if he passes the physical, a Franke Montas 1 year reclamation project seems like a great opportunity for everyone and I think Matt Fulmer/Matt Moore stretched out to 80+ inning multi reliever roles over 40 appearances can make up some ground. I also like Heaney as a project. Seems like a guy the Marlins pitching voodoo fixes and he is closer to his 2022 version. Maybe he too is a just devastating bulk reliever over 100 innings in 30 appearances. There are some value arms in this class that would fit their budget and likely be better than "Cueto 2023."

If they do go name brand shopping, I think it is Bellinger over Nola (and Snell over both of them). I don't love Bellinger's statcast, but he is somehow still 28 so you're getting him at the right time and would be a solid offensive gamble IMO. Combine that with Adames and literally anyone at catcher, and that lineup looks pretty damn good

[lou]

I think having both Berti and Hampson coming off the bench is ideal. Catcher, Berti, Hampson, and then just go and get the best hitter you can for the last spot. Basically Yuli's role this year, but get a much better hitter.

That hitter is DLC assuming no MLB bat trades.

____, Fortes
Bell
Arraez, Hampson
____, Berti
Burger
DLC, _____(Soler)
Jazz, Edwards
Sanchez

DLC has massive playing time problems with this set up (which is a good thing). It would be approximately 350-375 starts for DLC, Hampson, Berti, and Edwards here (absent huge injuries), and that effectively makes DLC an 80 game starter as Berti and Edwards should each get 110+ and Hampson should get 50+ lefties. That gets DLC on the bench a lot. And if Jazz and Sanchez show they can hit LHP a bit, that bench number goes up.

[Nick]

That hitter is DLC assuming no MLB bat trades.

____, Fortes
Bell
Arraez, Hampson
____, Berti
Burger
DLC, _____(Soler)
Jazz, Edwards
Sanchez

DLC has massive playing time problems with this set up (which is a good thing). It would be approximately 350-375 starts for DLC, Hampson, Berti, and Edwards here (absent huge injuries), and that effectively makes DLC an 80 game starter as Berti and Edwards should each get 110+ and Hampson should get 50+ lefties. That gets DLC on the bench a lot. And if Jazz and Sanchez show they can hit LHP a bit, that bench number goes up.

I wouldn't hate that. The previous lineup I posted with DLC, Berti, Hampson and the other catcher on the bench.

I definitely would want Edwards getting more ABs than DLC in this scenario though. Plus Edwards has got to be able to play a better LF than DLC.