2023 Game Thread

[Erick]

Goldschmidt and Luis Robert aren’t realistic.

I just want to see moves that improve the team even if they are rentals.

[lou]

In their defense, Trea Turner has had a pretty mediocre year, Correa has been mediocre, Bogaerts has a .739 OPS and they are paying him into his 40's, and Dansby Swanson has been good but nothing special. The bigger mistake is not trading even more pitching for more cost controlled hitting. They are never going to be in the game for deals that pay good players into their late 30s for 25+ million per year.

It doesn't matter, they were good ideas for their needs and those deals (not Xander) likely are fine over the course of all those years. I don't disagree with the last sentence. Nothing special Swanson is the 17th best position player in baseball this year BTW.

[fish16]

yankees are reportedly interested in Carlson. Wonder if there is a 3 team deal between the team that is a possibility.

[Nick]

Goldschmidt and Luis Robert aren’t realistic.

I just want to see moves that improve the team even if they are rentals.

Robert is not realistic. Goldschmidt is very realistic, if a certain someone decides they can handle a below average MLB payroll instead of a way below average MLB payroll.

[lou]

I wonder if they try something around Sanchez for Torres, then use the pitching for one of the cardinals infielders and a guy like Carlson. The net would be Torres, Carlson, and Gorman/Edman/Donovan while we give up Sanchez, Eder, and then other prospects.

I find this extra fun as when I said it might be worth trading Scott on his all-time high and using that to acquire capital to make other more impactful trades and target RP to come back to off-set his innings loss, that was idiotic, never going to happen, and is stupid..... and now we're suggesting trading a blossoming Jesus Sanchez with substantially more control as part of a series of moves which is effectively the same thing as moving a core contributor like Scott to sell guys on highs to reorganize the team more efficiently....... Finkle is Einhorn. Einhorn is Finkle. They can in fact buy and sell at the same time.

That being said, Sanchez is worth A LOT more than Gleyber with what he is doing and extra 3 years of control. Some really significant second pieces need to be coming back there as I cannot see how Sanchez does not have a $40-50+ million surplus value today and at best Gleyber is maybe $20m. This is adding ENORMOUS prospects on top of the Marlins. This is a tough mid-season deal IMO.

You want a good deal for Gleyber - Scott straight up. This math works out as Gleyber is very expensive and Scott is not. If that is off, it's chucking in Wendle on top for their bench (does make some sense TBH) and then just replace with Edwards for the Marlins and cross themfingers Berti does not get hurt to predominantly handle SS. Edwards has played some 3B this year in the minors.

And then go for Carlson, Flaherty, Gallegos, and Knizner with the exponential pitching trades we have discussed - Rogers/Eder, Fulton, Mesa Jr., and 3-4 more guys not named Meyer or Monteverde. Jacob Miller, Evan Fitterer, Millbrandt, McCambley. There is a lot of stuff the Cardinals can like here in the farm. The Marlins are excellent at identifying pitching and that gets the Cardinals a lot of stuff for Carlson, a good RP, rental SP, and backup C they don't need. There is a package that works out there for sure.

And could still trade nobody prospects for middle relievers if another is needed.

[fish16]

I find this extra fun as when I said it might be worth trading Scott on his all-time high and using that to acquire capital to make other more impactful trades and target RP to come back to off-set his innings loss, that was idiotic, never going to happen, and is stupid..... and now we're suggesting trading a blossoming Jesus Sanchez with substantially more control as part of a series of moves which is effectively the same thing as moving a core contributor like Scott to sell guys on highs to reorganize the team more efficiently....... Finkle is Einhorn. Einhorn is Finkle. They can in fact buy and sell at the same time.

That being said, Sanchez is worth A LOT more than Gleyber with what he is doing and extra 3 years of control. Some really significant second pieces need to be coming back there as I cannot see how Sanchez does not have a $40-50+ million surplus value today and at best Gleyber is maybe $20m. This is adding ENORMOUS prospects on top of the Marlins. This is a tough mid-season deal IMO.

You want a good deal for Gleyber - Scott straight up. This math works out as Gleyber is very expensive and Scott is not. If that is off, it's chucking in Wendle on top for their bench (does make some sense TBH) and then just replace with Edwards for the Marlins and cross themfingers Berti does not get hurt to predominantly handle SS. Edwards has played some 3B this year in the minors.

And then go for Carlson, Flaherty, Gallegos, and Knizner with the exponential pitching trades we have discussed - Rogers/Eder, Fulton, Mesa Jr., and 3-4 more guys not named Meyer or Monteverde. Jacob Miller, Evan Fitterer, Millbrandt, McCambley. There is a lot of stuff the Cardinals can like here in the farm. The Marlins are excellent at identifying pitching and that gets the Cardinals a lot of stuff for Carlson, a good RP, rental SP, and backup C they don't need. There is a package that works out there for sure.

And could still trade nobody prospects for middle relievers if another is needed.

Scott doesnt have much value in terms of pieces that can help you improve the lineup right now, Sanchez does. The prospects you would get for Scott would not do much other than help rebuild the farm system, but if you could trade Sanchez, Eder, and prospects into, say, some combo of Gorman, Edman, Nootbar, Carlson, Burleson, Torres, etc, that actually does move the needle.

Sanchez can't hit lefties. He's a really nice player and that is still a useful piece, but if you can get real value for a guy who is likely a platoon specialist, you do it. He's got 20 total at bats against lefties this year for a reason. That's the difference.

The play would be Sanchez to either STL or the yankees and getting back multiple, controllable pieces, not just gleyber. It would be, say, gleyber, Gorman/Edman, Carlson, etc. Turning Sanchez and prospects into multiple controllable pieces that arent platoon heavy guys.

[fish16]

it's also delusional to think Tanner Scott for Gleyber torres is remotely realistic.

[lou]

Scott doesnt have much value in terms of pieces that can help you improve the lineup right now, Sanchez does. The prospects you would get for Scott would not do much other than help rebuild the farm system, but if you could trade Sanchez, Eder, and prospects into, say, some combo of Gorman, Edman, Nootbar, Carlson, Burleson, Torres, etc, that actually does move the needle.

Sanchez can't hit lefties. He's a really nice player and that is still a useful piece, but if you can get real value for a guy who is likely a platoon specialist, you do it. He's got 20 total at bats against lefties this year for a reason. That's the difference.

The play would be Sanchez to either STL or the yankees and getting back multiple, controllable pieces, not just gleyber. It would be, say, gleyber, Gorman/Edman, Carlson, etc. Turning Sanchez and prospects into multiple controllable pieces that arent platoon heavy guys.

I don't care if he can hit lefties, Joc Pederson is a very good baseball player. Agree to disagree on Scott also. But Sanchez is a needle mover. They would get a ton for him, but would then need an extra outfielder back for sure.

I would support this team strongly:

Fortes, Stallings (upgrade if possible)
Arraez
Gleyber, Edwards
Edman (Gorman is too expensive on top of all of this to me)
Berti, Segura
Jazz, DLC
Carlson
Soler
13th - Cooper/Yuli/Garcia/Myers (Pick your fav)

That's a transformative change for sure.


Ignoring who goes where, I think you could put Gleyber, Edman, Carlson, and we'll include Flaherty surplus value at least at $120m, maybe a little more. In a vacuum, I think you get there with the Marlins with.... Sanchez, Rogers, Eder/Meyer (or Scott), Cappe/Watson/Berry, Fulton, Mesa Jr., and an assortment of FV40s. If that's the swap, count me in and I'd resign Edman for 4+ years and maybe even Gleyber for 5 if he'd take it.

[lou]

it's also delusional to think Tanner Scott for Gleyber torres is remotely realistic.

Scott has a higher WAR that Gleyber this year and makes $7m less (full season) just so you know.

Gleyber will be 3x more expensive next year, and if Scott blows his arm out, non-guaranteed.

If anything here, it's throwing them Wendle or a FV40 as I said.

[fish16]

Scott has a higher WAR that Gleyber this year and makes $7m less (full season) just so you know.

Gleyber will be 3x more expensive next year, and if Scott blows his arm out, non-guaranteed.

If anything here, it's throwing them Wendle or a FV40 as I said.

You could also add up Tanner Scott's career war coming into this year and he would still be .8 short of what gleyber torres did last year alone. They arent getting a top 2b in all of baseball for a middle reliever having his only good season. They would laugh us off the phone. They are each free agents after next year. Torres will earn a lot more because he is an everyday player and one of the better 2b's in baseball and not a volatile middle reliever.

[fish16]

wow, verlander back to the astros. Mets completely tearing it down. So very mets.

[Namaste]

Verlander out of the NL East

[Namaste]

Mets just Mets the hell out of it this year

[lou]

You could also add up Tanner Scott's career war coming into this year and he would still be .8 short of what gleyber torres did last year alone. They arent getting a top 2b in all of baseball for a middle reliever having his only good season. They would laugh us off the phone. They are each free agents after next year. Torres will earn a lot more because he is an everyday player and one of the better 2b's in baseball and not a volatile middle reliever.

........ he isn't a top 10 2B in baseball let alone a top 2B in all of baseball, although I do like him for who he is. To be fair, he was "10th" in production last year at 2B as Jazz and Story got hurt letting him sneak that high.

I think you need to do a topical dive into the 2B situation around baseball.

[fish16]

Bigger disaster- mets this year or us in 2012? They just need buck showalter to profess his admiration for Hugo Chavez or Castro