2023 Game Thread

[lou]

I just have no confidence they're going to spend on people in FA to make it a complete plan. They'll do trades and then just stop without making the other moves that need to go in conjunction with it.

I have no confidence they will spend "real" money, but if they scaled payroll even a little, they could fit in $30m in free agency over 2-3 players. Effectively the 1 year Hoskins injury reclamation and a better than Cueto SP. I know signing a SP sounds insane, but if that supplants "now" depth enough to do call it 3 SP arm trades for comparable bats, it works.

_____, Fortes
Arraez, Hoskins(DH)
Segura, Edwards
______
______, Berti
DLC/Sanchez
Jazz
_____, Sanchez/Garcia

Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, FA SP, Cueto, Cabrera, Meyer, Garrett
Chargois, Bender, Enright/Sixto
Puk, Nardi

Rogers, Eder, and Fulton not listed above basically. And feel free to swap anyone there with Cabrera, Garrett, and Meyer. Also, Cooper, Soler, Wendle, Floro, Scott, and Okert can be moved at the deadline. That's a pretty serious 9 guys to trade to contenders to fill in those positional blank lines and get depth relievers. Cappe, Berry, Groshans, Amaya, Nasim, Mesa Jr., and I. Lewis would be the young prospect core behind them with 2024 potential which is pretty solid. They have the SP there for 2024 and 2025 could be Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, and Meyer/Garrett. This is probably a college SP first round in 2023.

That's an interesting team quick if they land the trades. As always, they have options. But we'll see if they flatline by the deadline and can stay healthy.

[rmc523]

I have no confidence they will spend "real" money, but if they scaled payroll even a little, they could fit in $30m in free agency over 2-3 players. Effectively the 1 year Hoskins injury reclamation and a better than Cueto SP. I know signing a SP sounds insane, but if that supplants "now" depth enough to do call it 3 SP arm trades for comparable bats, it works.

_____, Fortes
Arraez, Hoskins(DH)
Segura, Edwards
______
______, Berti
DLC/Sanchez
Jazz
_____, Sanchez/Garcia

Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, FA SP, Cueto, Cabrera, Meyer, Garrett
Chargois, Bender, Enright/Sixto
Puk, Nardi

Rogers, Eder, and Fulton not listed above basically. And feel free to swap anyone there with Cabrera, Garrett, and Meyer. Also, Cooper, Soler, Wendle, Floro, Scott, and Okert can be moved at the deadline. That's a pretty serious 9 guys to trade to contenders to fill in those positional blank lines and get depth relievers. Cappe, Berry, Groshans, Amaya, Nasim, Mesa Jr., and I. Lewis would be the young prospect core behind them with 2024 potential which is pretty solid. They have the SP there for 2024 and 2025 could be Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, and Meyer/Garrett. This is probably a college SP first round in 2023.

That's an interesting team quick if they land the trades. As always, they have options. But we'll see if they flatline by the deadline and can stay healthy.

I don't think it's at all crazy to sign a SP - we always need it every year. I mean look at yet again this year we're having to fill rotation spots, even after signing our innings-eating vet.

[Nick]

At this time last year it was possible that we would have all of the following available to us in 2023

Sandy
Pablo
Luzardo
Cabrera
Rogers
Garrett
Meyer
Eder
Sixto
Castano
Eury
Hoeing

12 pitchers 1 was traded. 1 was signed. Cueto

6 of the 12 have had injuries by early May. I feel like that's a lot, something needs to change to keep our starters healthy.

[lou]

I don't think it's at all crazy to sign a SP - we always need it every year. I mean look at yet again this year we're having to fill rotation spots, even after signing our innings-eating vet.

Yes, but that's also contingent on Eury, Eder, and Meyer not being ready opening day. That tune should change pretty quickly here obviously if they stay healthy.

[sports24/7]

Jazz to the IL for what looks like a while with turf toe after running into the wall. That really sucks, and was always the added risk with moving him to CF. It's starting to feel like we can put a fork in this season. I'd be looking to sell high on players as soon as their value spikes.

[Nick]

Signature moment there from Soler. The board goes wild.

[lou]

Signature moment there from Soler. The board goes wild.

Totally. I think it's more like we've seen this show before and know what happens soon. They have the worst run differential in the national league and effectively can't hit. On pace for 547 runs which is really bad. That would have been worst in the league last year (Tigers - 557). Worst in 2021 (Pirates -607). Worst in 2020 (Pirates paced at 591 runs). Worst in 2019 (Tigers - 582). Worst in 2018 (Miami - 589) Worst in 2017 (San Diego 604). Worst in 2016 (Phillies 610). Worst in 2015 (Braves 573). And we finally get to the 2014 Padres (535) to find a worse offensive team. And Jazz is out a month now.

So yea, a fun walk off home run? Hard to enjoy it that much for me when the overall picture is bleak with a worst in the last decade level offense. Until they do make the necessary moves to really upgrade the team, its casual enthusiasm at best for me and hoping for a big deadline to set up a big offseason. The silver lining is, they have the resources to fix this quick if Bruce/FO will plant their flag on real moves and go for it.

[Lee Stone]

Marlins have the least savvy front office in the game IMO. Hard to overcome that.

[rmc523]

Yes, but that's also contingent on Eury, Eder, and Meyer not being ready opening day. That tune should change pretty quickly here obviously if they stay healthy.

But we always count on "if we're healthy" and we never are.

[rmc523]

Totally. I think it's more like we've seen this show before and know what happens soon. They have the worst run differential in the national league and effectively can't hit. On pace for 547 runs which is really bad. That would have been worst in the league last year (Tigers - 557). Worst in 2021 (Pirates -607). Worst in 2020 (Pirates paced at 591 runs). Worst in 2019 (Tigers - 582). Worst in 2018 (Miami - 589) Worst in 2017 (San Diego 604). Worst in 2016 (Phillies 610). Worst in 2015 (Braves 573). And we finally get to the 2014 Padres (535) to find a worse offensive team. And Jazz is out a month now.

So yea, a fun walk off home run? Hard to enjoy it that much for me when the overall picture is bleak with a worst in the last decade level offense. Until they do make the necessary moves to really upgrade the team, its casual enthusiasm at best for me and hoping for a big deadline to set up a big offseason. The silver lining is, they have the resources to fix this quick if Bruce/FO will plant their flag on real moves and go for it.

Silver lining? lol We've been saying this for years now, and there's less than 0 indication it'll happen.

[lou]

Silver lining? lol We've been saying this for years now, and there's less than 0 indication it'll happen.

True in the sense they could always just spend league average. Which they have should 0 indication for sure.

But - assuming health of the arms - this is a much much different depth chart situation for me entering into next year. Important here is everyone is finally MLB ready at the same time. The only reason they needed to spend on Cueto and Barnes this year were because Meyer and Bender/Poteet got hurt you know, which is the same thing we gotta hope for for next year. They should have signed more guys to jumpstart this, but it is what it is. Numbers are years of control from 2024.

Sandy (4), Eury (6), Cabrera (5), Meyer (5), Cueto (1), Sixto (5)
Luzardo (3), Rogers (3), Garrett (5), Eder (6), Fulton (6)
Chargois (2), Bender (5), Brazoban (4), Soriano (6), Enright (6), Reynolds (6)
Puk (3), Nardi (5), Simpson (6)

There are others too. Maybe Lee is right on Monteverde or Hoeing turns into a reliever. Miller, McCambley, Millbrandt, etc. Plus they are good at finding Pop/Brazoban/Thompson guys who turn out to be solid. They'll have some money next year. Even if that only generates say, a Segura, Cueto, and Barnes/Gurriel level contributor, that sets up multiple massive trades which is the only way they can improve absent Bruce turning the money faucet.

I'd ultimately take our chances on

Sandy, Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera, FA SP (probably a lefty), Cueto. 6 man rotation and never skip Sandy and Luzardo. Give the other 4 an always extra day to help.
Meyer (inevitable), Chargois, and an assortment of Brazoban, Soriano, Enright, Reynolds, and Sixto
Puk, Garrett (100+ IP multi inning reliever, effectively making up the innings of 1 less pen arm. Meyer and god willingly Sixto can help there too), Nardi/Simpson

That's a good and deep staff with multiple guys who could be stretched out if there is an injury. There is very low attrition for 2025 and 2026 as everyone is controlled and pretty cheap besides Sandy.

So as said, the bats are then something like????

_____, Fortes
Arraez, _____
Segura, Edwards
______
______, Berti
DLC
Jazz
Sanchez, Garcia

Rogers, Eder, Fulton, Soler, Cooper, Wendle, Floro, Barnes, Scott, and Okert is going to get A LOT back, and they would have money for another "Segura", "Soler", or "Garcia" at minimum on top of that (i.e. Hoskins? Cooper resign? Soler resign?). I can easily see the 4 blank lines and an OF upgrade here trading this group (plus adding depth RP so the pitching looks similar to the first lost above).

So yea, the silver lining. It's all set up if the arms are healthy and they can trade. They just gotta stay relatively healthy. That's the key. As we know, that hasn't been the case yet but hopefully there isn't another Meyer level event this year as that is where the setbacks occur.

With the footnote, maybe just spend $125m on payroll and trade just Rogers or Eder for a bat and accomplish the same thing with even better pitching. Sigh.

[Nick]

I think I would not be in favor of re-signing Jazz at this point. 102 games missed last year. Looks like he's going to miss at least the next 30 games. Production not all that great when he's been healthy this year. Guy has a lot to prove.

[Lee Stone]

Unless Jazz would sign on the cheap, I would trade him before investing big. Names like Cowser, Westburg, Mayo and more from the Baltimore farm would be great adds.

[Nick]

Unless Jazz would sign on the cheap, I would trade him before investing big. Names like Cowser, Westburg, Mayo and more from the Baltimore farm would be great adds.

Trading him now after dealing with two major injuries and not so great production sandwiched in between would also be ignorant.

[rmc523]

Trading him now after dealing with two major injuries and not so great production sandwiched in between would also be ignorant.

And also a typical Marlins move.