April 2021 game thread

[fish16]

I'm not giving up on this year yet, but I think it's clear to me that making some huge roster altering move at the 2021 deadline, unless it's for a catcher you believe will be the guy for the next 5-6 years, is probably not the smartest move at this point.

agreed. Unless they negotiate with marte and decide it's unlikely he is going to be re-signing here, i'd shop him and see if we can snag a top prospect catcher. It is so clearly our biggest organizational hole and even though nick fortes has looked decent this year, he's likely not a guy long term. They need to do some serious work in the next month and a half to decide what marte wants, whether it is worth it for us to give it to him, and then see what we can get for him if we're out of it. I'd do everything possible to get Keibert Ruiz from the dodgers. He's a top prospect, best catching prospect in baseball, and his plate discipline is outstanding which would complement guys like Jazz who are long term pieces but strike out more.

Marte for Ruiz straight up I would do in a heartbeat. Plus every year the dodgers add bullpen pieces so if its marte and yimi or bleier or some kind of piece like that for Ruiz and a lower level flier we like, we need to pull the trigger. dodgers don't really need OF's though but if for whatever reason they do, we need to be all over it.

[fish16]

Obviously we're going to have to spend money, but I can't imagine a scenario where the best Free Agent Bat available is coming to us, let alone more than one elite bat is coming to us in free agency. I think it's pretty clear that handing out a $200 million contract to a player is something that we're just not going to do. So how do you acquire a player who's going to come in and immediately be your best player? It's gotta be through a trade.

Unless it's for a short term, last piece to a contender kind of deal, we will never be signing those types of huge money guys. It's just that simple. We are building economically sustainable from within and hoping to add tweaks and other pieces that can put us over the top. Say what you want about that strategy, but that's what the strategy is and in my opinion what it should be. They need to build through cost controlled guys like we have been, add quality short term pieces, and then dont do what the cubs did where they stopped adding young prospects once the big league team is established. It needs to be like the rays but with more money. Cost controlled, great young talent, the occasional major piece, and consistent investment in the draft and especially IFA that allows for a constant influx of cheap talent that allows you to easily replace guys who end up getting to expensive. That's the entire rays model and they are fucking great at it.

[fish16]

I would like to keep all 7, and pay for better hitters.

the issue with that strategy is that it is rarely smart to pay the type of money that good free agents get when they hit the market given how the contracts are structured for team controlled guys. Even though you are reducing the depth in SP, if you do it correctly you can add a cheap, long term piece and create an overall better team without overpaying for a guy like Corey Dickerson, Duvall, or Starling marte for multiple years. It's the epitome of the gallen for jazz move. Gallen is a really good pitcher, but we had depth there, found a top prospect we liked, and addressed a major need at SS who will cost us the minimum or close to it for 4 years and be under team control for 6.

I get what you're saying, but unless you're getting the machado's or Gerrit Cole's of the world, free agency isn't really worth it, and especially for a small market team, free agency isn't the way to go. The way to go is build huge depth in the farm system, evaluate what pans out for a few years, and then make Gallen/Jazz type moves from depth to fill in areas that didn't pan out as expected or might not be as strong.

[Nick]

the issue with that strategy is that it is rarely smart to pay the type of money that good free agents get when they hit the market given how the contracts are structured for team controlled guys. Even though you are reducing the depth in SP, if you do it correctly you can add a cheap, long term piece and create an overall better team without overpaying for a guy like Corey Dickerson, Duvall, or Starling marte for multiple years. It's the epitome of the gallen for jazz move. Gallen is a really good pitcher, but we had depth there, found a top prospect we liked, and addressed a major need at SS who will cost us the minimum or close to it for 4 years and be under team control for 6.

I get what you're saying, but unless you're getting the machado's or Gerrit Cole's of the world, free agency isn't really worth it, and especially for a small market team, free agency isn't the way to go. The way to go is build huge depth in the farm system, evaluate what pans out for a few years, and then make Gallen/Jazz type moves from depth to fill in areas that didn't pan out as expected or might not be as strong.

I wouldn't say Free Agency isn't worth it. Just looking at the upcoming FA class, I think Kris Bryant or Anthony Rizzo on a 3-year contract may be something that would be in play for us. There is definitely a tier above the Duvalls and Dickerson's of the world of 30+ year old bats that should be in play for us from year to year. If Sherman and Jeter would be willing to open the checkbook just a little bit. It's just about picking and choosing which is the right fit from year to year.

[sports24/7]

I don’t get calling up Lewin Diaz if the only way he plays is if Aguilar gets a day off. Call up Jesus Sanchez and platoon Duvall and Dickerson for a while.

It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Ng said ideally they don’t want him up yet, and instead would rather him get at bats every day. Both Duvall and Dickerson have played 1st in games. Berti trained there and should be capable. I don’t get calling him up as a backup 1B when Sanchez could be coming up and playing every day.

[sports24/7]

Sanchez stopped hitting a couple weeks ago. Good news is that catcher Nick Forte is starting to hit. Sure could use catching help. Do you realize that the Marlin catchers have now allowed runs to score on pitches that got by them in three consecutive games? That has to be a record.

He’s gotten a hit in 9 of his last 12 games.

[fish16]

I wouldn't say Free Agency isn't worth it. Just looking at the upcoming FA class, I think Kris Bryant or Anthony Rizzo on a 3-year contract may be something that would be in play for us. Their is definitely a tier above the Duvalls and Dickerson's of the world of 30+ year old bats that should be in play for us from year to year. If Sherman and Jeter would be willing to open the checkbook just a little bit. It's just about picking and choosing which is the right fit from year to year.

Yes, you're right. Certain types of players arent worth it in free agency is how I should have prefaced that. The guy looking for a 5+ year deal for huge money is not worth it specifically for a team in our market. If a Kris Bryant is willing to take a 3-4 year deal or Rizzo on a 2-3 year deal that would be ideal but again, I'm not sure he's not gonna get a huge long term deal. My overall point is that we should not be going after guys for more than 4+ years because the risk given our salary constraints isn't worth it.

[fish16]

It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Ng said ideally they don’t want him up yet, and instead would rather him get at bats every day. Both Duvall and Dickerson have played 1st in games. Berti trained there and should be capable. I don’t get calling him up as a backup 1B when Sanchez could be coming up and playing every day.

one thing I have heard mish discuss is that ever since we acquired Jesus he has consistently had small tweaks and other injuries that have frustrated them, so they might be just trying to see if he can play 2+ months straight, get consistent AB's, stay healthy, and produce. He has lived up to the bill so far this year but even this year he had a small little injury that kept him out a few days. Id be interested to get their true reasoning for not letting him get up here and get some ab's. With the way duvall and Dickerson have hit the ball this year, just platoon those guys and give jesus 4-5 starts per week and see if he produces. Lewin diaz to me is not going to produce this year, especially if you play him sparingly given Aguilar's hold on 1b.

[sports24/7]

one thing I have heard mish discuss is that ever since we acquired Jesus he has consistently had small tweaks and other injuries that have frustrated them, so they might be just trying to see if he can play 2+ months straight, get consistent AB's, stay healthy, and produce. He has lived up to the bill so far this year but even this year he had a small little injury that kept him out a few days. Id be interested to get their true reasoning for not letting him get up here and get some ab's. With the way duvall and Dickerson have hit the ball this year, just platoon those guys and give jesus 4-5 starts per week and see if he produces. Lewin diaz to me is not going to produce this year, especially if you play him sparingly given Aguilar's hold on 1b.

Yeah, I saw him say that, but I don't really understand it. Maybe you have a better perspective on it than I do, but the way I see it, if he's going to get hurt, he's going to get hurt. Why does it matter what level he's playing at? I feel like if he's ready, I feel like he should be getting ML ABs, and if he does get hurt you deal with it. I get that you don't want his momentum to be derailed by a tweak, but if he's at AAA to get better, and gets hurt there, isn't the setback basically the same?

For me, even if it's not Sanchez, though, there are other options rather than forcing what could be a good prospect into a role that can stunt his progress when there are other options. With the path they've chosen, developing these hitting prospects has to be among their top priorities. So if it means burning options on other guys, or even having non-prospects like a Luis Marte come up, and give you less, I feel like that's the better move. I still think they're making a mistake with what they're doing with Devers, even though he's been improving.

[fish16]

Yeah, I saw him say that, but I don't really understand it. Maybe you have a better perspective on it than I do, but the way I see it, if he's going to get hurt, he's going to get hurt. Why does it matter what level he's playing at? I feel like if he's ready, I feel like he should be getting ML ABs, and if he does get hurt you deal with it. I get that you don't want his momentum to be derailed by a tweak, but if he's at AAA to get better, and gets hurt there, isn't the setback basically the same?

For me, even if it's not Sanchez, though, there are other options rather than forcing what could be a good prospect into a role that can stunt his progress when there are other options. With the path they've chosen, developing these hitting prospects has to be among their top priorities. So if it means burning options on other guys, or even having non-prospects like a Luis Marte come up, and give you less, I feel like that's the better move. I still think they're making a mistake with what they're doing with Devers, even though he's been improving.

trust me I agree with you, I was just relaying what mish said thinking that it might be part of the reasoning. My thought would be that they are waiting for closer to the deadline to see if he can stay healthy, continue to get better at AAA so there are fewer struggles upon arriving at the big league level for good, and then just seeing how the big league team performs the next month to see if a spot opens up via trade regardless. Especially with Cooper on the IL yet again, I think it just makes the most sense to platoon duvall and Dickerson unless one of them gets hot and give jesus every day at bats to establish himself.

Long story short- I would do absolutely anything to never have to see magneuris sierra play a baseball game in a marlins uniform. However they choose to do it.

[fish16]

havent seen the team score a run in like 3 weeks. had to walk the dog so missed the start of the game. naturally they score 6 runs.

Marte is so good and so smooth. If contract discussions don't look promising and they are 7+ games out they have to see what they can get. Cant imagine there will be many better bats available than him.

[Nick]

havent seen the team score a run in like 3 weeks. had to walk the dog so missed the start of the game. naturally they score 6 runs.

Marte is so good and so smooth. If contract discussions don't look promising and they are 7+ games out they have to see what they can get. Cant imagine there will be many better bats available than him.

Maybe we can get Humberto Mejia and Caleb Smith back.

[Madman81]

marte is so cool

[fish16]

marte is so fucking good. we really got a steal with that deal for him.

[fish16]

trevor rogers is also so fucking good. pretty much the only game he has been not at least above average in is the first game where he admitted to nerves in the first inning where he allowed like 4 runs and then settled down. He is an ace as a rookie. Gotta be getting close to top 3 cy young contention after degrom and wheeler, and he is the clear ROY in the NL.